After Several Years: What Do You Think of the New Release Figures?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by carnation

However, some have multiple family members in the groups that cut them and neither they nor their families are expecting the cuts. Back when their mom/grandmom/whoever was rushing, there were fewer legacies and it was no doubt easier for a girl to pledge her legacy group.

And back when mom or grandmom was rushing, a Coke cost a nickel and you could buy a car for $500. Times change. If people are too stupid to realize that - and you'd have to be living in a cave to not know there are more students than EVER, including when the baby boomers went through - then it's not my fault they passed their stupid on to their kids and gave them false hopes.

Originally Posted by carnation

There's also this situation that I see a lot: a big group of girls--outstanding but not feeling 'entitled' in any way--will rush together at a school and say, "Wouldn't it be cool if we could be ABs or CDs or (some group) together?" And they go through rush and suddenly 2 or 3 out of the 10 girls don't have the option of any of the maybe 8 out of 16 groups they liked and all they can see is their friendships coming to an end and here they're having to make a snap decision. Sometimes these girls drop and sometimes they re-rush the next year. Sometimes they transfer because all they've heard is how great is is to be an AB and they want to be one too, not understanding that sisterhood is everywhere. Sometimes they pledge one of their remaining groups and have a great 4 years and sometimes they pledge and then depledge because they keep seeing their friends having a wonderful time in the groups they wanted.

And wouldn't it be cool if these girls, who already have the foundation of a strong friendship, would join one of the chapters that's not at total or hitting quota and turn it around? Strangely enough*, that's rarely the scenario. However, guys do it all the time. Bunches of guys from the same HS join the same group or start a new one and completely revitalize the fraternity and/or the whole Greek system. It would be nice if girls were brought up to believe that they could achieve the same sort of thing.

* Heavy dripping sarcasm.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Splash

qualified PNM's

You can't really use the word "qualified" (outside of being a full time female student at the college in question) when it comes to NPC recruitment. There are too many intangibles. There are lots of girls who look good on paper but are trainwrecks in real life (and vice versa).

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by Splash

The chapter will only be able to take quote either way. This applies to every group of girls who goes to every round. I am speaking about qualified PNM's who get cut due to high release figures that having been given another chance could have won the sorority over. You say they'll be cut anyway. If they're qualified, giving them an extra chance to win the sorority over could only help their chances.

The purpose of RFM is not to help PNMs' chances at top chapters. The purpose of RFM is to maximize Panhellenic membership. Panhellenic membership is maximized when ALL chapters are making quota or coming close. If "top" chapters DON'T make those heavy cuts after round 1, PNMs choose to cut the "bottom" chapters, and then there is a huge disparity in the available PNM pool for "top" and "bottom" chapters. Additionally, there will be more women bidless because chapters can only take quota (plus maybe a few QAs). So, small chapters not making quota plus lots of unmatched women, all so PNMs can "have another chance" at a "top" chapter.

Originally Posted by Barbie's_Rush

I just don't think RFM does that much for struggling chapters, at least at campuses where someone would rather not be Greek at all than wear the letters ABC. I can't even dream of how demoralizing it would be to not have a large portion of your new members show up for bid day and to watch your new member class progressively dwindle through the weeks leading up to initiation.

Kind of. Every campus has "top", "middle", and "bottom" chapters. I think it's more a matter of how awful a "bottom" chapter is perceived to be. It's not like all "bottom tier" chapters (even at competitive schools) are experiencing poor retention/not making quota. They might be in danger if it were not for RFM. I guess my point is that RFM alone won't save a chapter that has reached the point of no return, but it can help a chapter from getting there in the first place.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

The purpose of RFM is not to help PNMs' chances at top chapters. The purpose of RFM is to maximize Panhellenic membership. Panhellenic membership is maximized when ALL chapters are making quota or coming close. If "top" chapters DON'T make those heavy cuts after round 1, PNMs choose to cut the "bottom" chapters, and then there is a huge disparity in the available PNM pool for "top" and "bottom" chapters. Additionally, there will be more women bidless because chapters can only take quota (plus maybe a few QAs). So, small chapters not making quota plus lots of unmatched women, all so PNMs can "have another chance" at a "top" chapter.

Kind of. Every campus has "top", "middle", and "bottom" chapters. I think it's more a matter of how awful a "bottom" chapter is perceived to be. It's not like all "bottom tier" chapters (even at competitive schools) are experiencing poor retention/not making quota. They might be in danger if it were not for RFM. I guess my point is that RFM alone won't save a chapter that has reached the point of no return, but it can help a chapter from getting there in the first place.

Both paragraphs: very, very true. I would love to see some kind of research that explores the number of women getting bids now vs. the numbers in past years. I would expect the numbers took a dip before someone came up with quota plus but by this time, they should have gone up again.

For sure, this part of the country isn't seeing all the chapters dying that we used to or even the number of very tiny "bottom" tier chapters on their way out. I think that RFM is finally doing its job.

I can still understand the frustration of women who are heavily cut right off because they were cut after only 1 brief party (sometimes just 20 minutes) in which hardly anyone got to know them. I don't know what the answer is for that.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by carnation

I can still understand the frustration of women who are heavily cut right off because they were cut after only 1 brief party (sometimes just 20 minutes) in which hardly anyone got to know them. I don't know what the answer is for that.

Deferred rush without ridiculous restrictions - where women interested in sororities and women already in sororities get to know each other as humans, rather than as pursuer and pursued. That is the answer for that.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Deferred rush without ridiculous restrictions - where women interested in sororities and women already in sororities get to know each other as humans, rather than as pursuer and pursued. That is the answer for that.

And Virginia Tech is an example of a large-scale recruitment (12 chapters, quota about 50) where that works!

A-freakin-men. After reading the infraction stories threads, it's ridiculous some of the rules there are. It really becomes a tattle-fest. Glitter or napkins as gifts? Stepping over a sidewalk line? Really? These thing are TOTALLY going to make PNMs want to join one chapter over another. Panhellenics need to evaluate what is truly problematic.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by carnation

Both paragraphs: very, very true. I would love to see some kind of research that explores the number of women getting bids now vs. the numbers in past years. I would expect the numbers took a dip before someone came up with quota plus but by this time, they should have gone up again.

For sure, this part of the country isn't seeing all the chapters dying that we used to or even the number of very tiny "bottom" tier chapters on their way out. I think that RFM is finally doing its job.

Whenever I read LeslieAnne's recruitment story at UMD in the mid 80s, I think, wow, if RFM were implemented, Maryland might still have Pi Beta Phi (closed 1990), Alpha Gamma Delta (closed 1992), Alpha Xi Delta (closed 1993), and Gamma Phi Beta (closed 2000). Instead, top tier chapters didn't make very many cuts after the first round, so of course, most PNMs cut the "bottom" chapters. I do have to wonder how Maryland had the same 18 chapters from 1962 to 1989, and without any membership-number-related closures since the first sororities came to campus in 1920 until 1990. That is especially impressive they made it through the 60s and 70s, times when Greek Life was not very popular! All that without RFM! Maybe as long as your chapter wasn't in debt and spiraling out of control with smaller and smaller numbers, your HQ didn't care?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

I do have to wonder how Maryland had the same 18 chapters from 1962 to 1989, and without any membership-number-related closures since the first sororities came to campus in 1920 until 1990. That is especially impressive they made it through the 60s and 70s, times when Greek Life was not very popular! All that without RFM! Maybe as long as your chapter wasn't in debt and spiraling out of control with smaller and smaller numbers, your HQ didn't care?

Yeah, pretty much. I don't think they cared if you had 5 members, as long as you were paid up. IMO the Internet has been part of what's changed all that. It's a lot harder now to hide that OMG XYZ's chapter at Goren U only has 16 people and the rest have 50, therefore XYZ must suck. When there was limited contact between universities, it didn't really matter. I mean, when I pledged I assumed that AST must have been one of the biggest sororities in the entire nation because it was one of the biggest chapters at my college.

Not only that, late 80s/early 90s is when insurance started going through the roof. Chapters who cost more to run than they brought in through membership fees were discarded. By this I don't mean that they were doing anything that was RM-bad, but that eliminating chapters probably cut the rate you had to pay on insurance.

[bu1904]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

Did it work for any of them?

Only 2 girls, the others either got dropped completely after the first round or still didnt get the chapter they wanted and withdrew from recruitment.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

Whenever I read LeslieAnne's recruitment story at UMD in the mid 80s, I think, wow, if RFM were implemented, Maryland might still have Pi Beta Phi (closed 1990), Alpha Gamma Delta (closed 1992), Alpha Xi Delta (closed 1993), and Gamma Phi Beta (closed 2000). Instead, top tier chapters didn't make very many cuts after the first round, so of course, most PNMs cut the "bottom" chapters.

I so remember those days. I can think of many chapters that would probably still be at various SEC schools had we had RFM and I don't know if they'll ever return because when the schools have opened up for expansion, those chapters haven't bothered to reapply.

[Splash]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

But it's the sorority that decided that 100 other PNMs were more qualified. It's the same with a job interview or a college application.

But the sorority could change their mind if they get to meet the girl again.

Originally Posted by Drolefille

If a campus decides to add an extra non-cutting round to recruitment so everyone gets to meet at least twice before the cutting starts, that's one thing. But there's nothing more special or qualified about any one girl who gets cut from ABC than another girl. Barring being dropped for grade reasons, shouldn't you argue that every girl should get to meet again? Because every girl will think she deserves another shot.

Well to a point. Before RFM they had to release a lesser number. Basically everyone else could get a second chance except for those girls they would have released anyway.

Originally Posted by Drolefille

And isn't that why RFM was introduced? To help curb any unrealistic expectations that ABC really wants YOU when they just kind of like you and really want 50 other girls instead. And to make sure that "YOU" get to look at as many other sororities as possible instead of listing going back to ABC every round when you're not going to be bid.

/General "yous" all around.

I get what you're saying but opinions change a lot in recruitment, for both the PNM's and the sororities. The more rounds you go back, the better chance you have at a bid, no?

[SWTXBelle]

Not necessarily - depends a great deal on the campus. There are many campuses where the bid list(s) are all but decided before recruitment even starts. There has to be a cut-off point - unless you want recruitment to run for weeks.

[carnation]

^^ Star what she said. I don't care if the rush is in early August or mid-October, at many of these schools certain sororities know who they want and hardly anything (unless one of their favored girls does a pole dance on the campus flagpole) is going to change that list. Rarely do you hear of someone saying at these schools, "Hey! I just met a fabulous girl at first parties (or in my class or at a party) and we really need to consider her!"

Nope, if one of their favored girls cuts them, they have a zillion backups to fill her place and have had them for months.

[AXOrushadvisor]

Just curious, Carnation, how do the Chapters know a whole pledge class full of women prior to recruitment? Are these not the same girls all the other houses want too?

On a side note, do you think the RFM's have made recruitment more competitive? The reason why I ask this is that I often hear the PNM's saying how some Chapters are making huge cuts (again not understanding the system) and it is so hard to get an invitation so more cuts = exclusivity of those said Chapters?

[Splash]

SWTXBelle & Carnation -

Is there even a point for rush then for those chapters/campuses?