Sorority Life Part 1 million

[lifesaver]

Originally posted by shadokat
And $8 for a drink is absolutely ridiculous.

Let me introduce you to an old southern tradition often seen at Fraternity Formals, Student Government Formals, etc.

One word...

*FLASK*

I dotn think i could do a formal without my little buddy in my coat pocket...

Of course down here its all wet...

Thank you, that is all.

[SATX*APhi]

I didn't know MTV provided "cars." I knew they provided a Yukon, but "cars?" Craziness! I am pretty sure I know who doesn't join; I found out a while back on MTV.com.

I wonder what is going to go on that is going to make us want to ask so many questions.

[sugar and spice]

I think I heard that the season is only supposed to be ten shows long, so if that's the case it should be wrapping up pretty quickly. I could be wrong though.

[chideltjen]

Originally posted by lifesaver


Let me introduce you to an old southern tradition often seen at Fraternity Formals, Student Government Formals, etc.

One word...

*FLASK*

I dotn think i could do a formal without my little buddy in my coat pocket...

Of course down here its all wet...

Thank you, that is all.

to add to that... our sorority had our formal in SF this semester. My date got a regular coke, no alcohol, at the hotel. the glass was about the size of a double shot and cost $2.50. $8 is the norm in the city.
And i totally missed like half the episode. Maybe Zuma can clear something up for me: was the hotel included in your bid price? I am just trying to make sense of it all cuz if my group has an out of towner, we can offer to hold up about 15 blocked rooms for girls to share, but it's up to everyone to call the reservations and it's paid seperatly. For example, we were given the option to stay at the Sheraton in SF, but I chose to go back to my parent's house to stay and save cash. So i didn't really have a problem with jordan and mara switching hotels, but if it was all part of the big picture, ie you got the bid with the hotel, then i could see how feelings could be hurt.
and lemmie tell you, that room wasn't half as bad as this one hotel i stayed at in chico: vibrating beds and 70s decor... it looked like it came straight out of a porn... i digress. sorry.

[SoCalGirl]

The formal was soooooo pretty! I'm totally jealous of that spread.

The sunglasses--maybe not the best idea. It's strikes me that it would be less of a bad idea at the fall semi formal than spring sit down dinner formal formal! But it was their behavior that was heinous. Those four were smashed when they got there. They should have been better prepared with the cash if they had planned at drinking at the bar too. I'm left wondering though. Did the $8 include tip or not? Maybe Zuma can help me out here. Because $8 at a swank SF hotel wouldn't shock me. But I'd completely expect $7+$1tip=$8.
Most clubs are going to run you $6/drink normally so $8 doesn't seem like a stretch.

Walking out during presentations. Completely lame! I know I would have lost it. I can picture myself excusing myself, following them, and ripping them a new one!!! Amanda and Candace said they needed a break. The sisters said the entire table walked out. Who else was at the table? I can't recall. I doubt Amanda and Candace sat w/ Mara and Jordan or Jessica and DeeDee.

Switching hotels. Well it is their money. As long as they realize they'd owe for both rooms. They should have asked for a different room first!!! The crack in the wall did suck but visually that seemed to be the worst of it. It's good enough for the sisters, what makes you so damn special?

Ditching to go to a strip club?!?! Please leave those Pledge Bracelets at the door!

Risk Management Issues
Switching hotels. How did they get to the formal? Everyone else was on the bus. (R/M kudos for the bus!)

Leaving the formal to wander looking for an atm, attempt to go to a club, attend a strip club.

Pre Partying. Amanda and Candace obviously did. Yes, everyone does it. But it's is still a R/M concern.

Kudos to Mtv for showing how a real sister would react to the suggestion of ditching her formal!

[maggieaxid]

this thought came to this morning as i was reading everyone's posts....

jordan and mara are too classy to stay in that hotel, but obvisoulsy their class doesn't keep them from going to a strip club in overly expensive dresses. (i tried on mara's dress once, i believe it is close to $450)

[stacydphie]

Originally posted by maggieaxid
this thought came to this morning as i was reading everyone's posts....

jordan and mara are too classy to stay in that hotel, but obvisoulsy their class doesn't keep them from going to a strip club in overly expensive dresses. (i tried on mara's dress once, i believe it is close to $450)

It's not like they paid for those dresses themselves, did you see that ad nauseum product placement with the store the wardrobe came from?

[maggieaxid]

yeah, you could totally tell that mtv paid for their little shopping spree. but my point being, you are in this fabulous dress and you go to a strip club in it????

[stacydphie]

Originally posted by maggieaxid
yeah, you could totally tell that mtv paid for their little shopping spree. but my point being, you are in this fabulous dress and you go to a strip club in it????

Those two haven't showed any previous kind of class, it doesn't surprise me at all.

Just the fact that they would rather be out on the town at a strip club instead of being with their sisters - where they're supposed to be - nothing they do or say surprises me.

What little respect I had left pretty much vanished this week.

[LeslieAGD]

Originally posted by SoCalGirl
Kudos to Mtv for showing how a real sister would react to the suggestion of ditching her formal!

Yeah, I think that's the only thing MTV has done right with this show. I was glad to see a sister telling her date that she wasn't leaving...unlike their ungrateful pledges.

[maggieaxid]

If we could find her, i'd like Zuma to reply to what she felt when it happened/ when she saw it on tv.

[Kevlar281]

I was surprised about the $8.00 price as well. The J.W. Marriott in Washington D.C. has a great deal on drinks. For $6.50 you can purchase a 64 oz beer off the tap.

[KappaKittyCat]

"Actually, the chapter is not responsible if something happens to them because the event is held at a third party vendor. The Westin would be held responsible if anything happened within the actual formal. As for outside, that would be the responsibility of the establishment they were attending." -Shadokat

I'm going to preface this post by saying that I have no formal legal training, only the layman's knowledge that comes from closely following the news, studying landmark Supreme Court cases in my high school U.S. government and political science classes, reading John Grisham novels, and watching Law & Order. This post is based on my simple understanding of the law, which I gleaned from the above sources and my training as chapter risk management and standards chairs. Any of our other, more finely tuned GC legal minds should please feel free to jump in at any time and correct my errors.

That said...

I attended a nifty presentation at Kappa Convention this summer. It's called "Something of Value," and it's presented by Greek women attorneys through NPC. It's all about the legal liabilities and responsibility issues involved with Greek life when it comes to alcohol, formals, etc. It's very interesting and informative, so informative, in fact, that it scared the living daylights out of most of the standards and risk management chairs who were there.

The point of the presentation is that while a chapter could not be held criminally liable for anything that happened to its members in such a situation, both the chapter, the national organization, and the individual members (as well as the hotel, bartenders, security firm, bus company, and anyone else) could be found responsible in a civil suit. The standard for a criminal negligence case, "beyond a reasonable doubt" means that the jury is 100% certain that the defendant could and should have done something to prevent the situation from occurring, that the situation is entirely the fault of the defendant's failing to act.

The standard for a civil responsibility case is different. It's called "preponderance of the evidence" and it's based on the question, "What would a reasonable person have done to prevent the situation from occurring?" If the jury believes that the defendant failed to do what any reasonable person might have done, even if they think the defendent is only a teensy bit responsible, they must find for the plaintiff. They then have the discretion to award damages as they see fit. They could find for the plaintiff and award damages in the amount of $1 if they wanted to. Juries have done that. Guilt is a yes or no question, but responsibility comes in myriad shades of gray.

So what does that mean for our dear friends at SAEP? Well, Sigma could not be held criminally liable. The individual responsiblity factor alone (meaning that the girls in question were obviously acting of their own free will) is enough to blast a huge hole in any prosecution case. For that reason, no prosecutor in his right mind would bring charges against them.

But, both Sigma's chapter and its individual members could be held responsible if Jordan and Mara were to, say, have been injured on their way over to the strip club or going home to their new hotel, or had Candace and Amanda been sexually assaulted in their drunken state, or so on. These sisters, who pledged loyalty and friendship to the pledges, should have at least said something like, "You should stay in the same hotel with the rest of us because it's safer," or, "Please don't go wandering around outside the hotel at night because it's dangerous," or, "Maybe you've had enough to drink," or, "Maybe you shouldn't go off alone with your date when you're both drunk like that," etc. Somebody should have kept an eye on them and their dates. Somebody should have cautioned them against pre-partying. They shouldn't have just stood idly by and let them leave, slobbering drunk as they were.

Now, maybe Sigma sisters did say these things. I would imagine that they might have. I hope that they had some sort of risk management talk before they even left for San Francisco, but I'm aware that had any of these things happened, the film would make it no further than the editing room floor. It's not good TV. Were Jordan, Candace, Amanda, and Mara's actions abhorrently irresponsible not to mention inexcusibly rude? Of course. Nobody argues with that. But did the other Sigmas have a duty to them as sisters, friends, women, and even fellow human beings to at least caution, if not intercede? I think so. Could a talented attorney convince a jury that anything that might have happened to these ladies was at least partially the fault of Sigma and its individual members? You bet your badges.

[Zuma]

Originally posted by chideltjen

And i totally missed like half the episode. Maybe Zuma can clear something up for me: was the hotel included in your bid price.

I think the price covered the cost of the room too because I remember thinking that it was the same amount of money I paid for prom more or less. Im not sure though, especially since Im alumni and dont pay dues, which could mean that I paid more than actives.

Editing to add:
*I never paid for the drinks, they were bought for me But $8 does sound about right for one of the nicest hotels in SF. I went to another hotel a few months later in SF and that was about the same.
*Some of the formal dresses were loaned by Macys, so the girls didnt keep them.
*This show just brought back good memories of a great night. I try not to focus on the drama that I didnt really feel that night.

[shadokat]

The whole reason that national and international fraternities and sororities have risk management policies is to remove the risk of liability from the chapter/fraternity/sorority. That being said, the use of third party vendors is allowed for the reason that when you use a third party vendor, the liability lies with the vendor. For instance, you go to a bar and get served underage. That isn't the sorority or fraternity's fault...it's the vendors fault. If you drink too much at a third party vendor mixer and you drive and hurt someone, the VENDOR is responsible for having served you too much alcohol. While sisters should've taken your keys and not allowed you to drive, it's the bartenders at the facility who are serving you and seeing your condition.

Case in point...a man is at a bar, and is COMPLETELY bombed. He gets in his car and drives home and amazingly makes it. But, once home, he falls down the stairs to his basement, slamming his head off the concrete floor. He dies from swelling of the brain. So who is responsible? Well, the DA in this situation charged the BARTENDER for serving the man too much alcohol and allowing him to leave in that state. The bartender was charged with involuntary manslaughter, and while the charges were later dropped and not refiled, it shows you where the liability will lie.

I know this is completely off of the sorority life topic, and I apologize, but I think that it's important to realize that risk management is of the utmost importance, and there are reasons behind the policies we have.