MTV and Sororities - Page 12

SIGMA_INSIDER · #**166** 06-13-2002, 03:23 PM

I think I've repeated myself too many times. Nobody has told you not to make conclusions about what you see, that is how we operate. However, when you come to such broad conclusions, without seeing one second of the actual show and what reaction people will have, it is troubling. I cannot believe you even tried to compare this to murder. Murder has a completely negative outcome. How do you know the outcome of this show? "Because I saw a 30 second commercial and some concerned Greeks put messages up on Greekchat.com" Not exactly a good basis for such sweeping conclusions. After the show has aired and if nobody ever rushes a sorority again, it's fine to come to your conclusion of irreparable damage and eternal damnation of Sigma for exposing themselves. Look at all the posts from Greeks like yourself who disagree and can see ways to make light of the "bad parts" (even though we're not sure exactly what they will be) of the show and use it to their advantage. Even if you don't agree, almost everyone on this post has calmed down and realized some things that you haven't. Leave your animosity and the "I told you so" attitude at the door. You told them what? Read the Sigmas' statement. They are prepared for any reaction to what they undertook, even reactions like yours. http://www.sigmaaepi.com

#**167** 06-13-2002, 04:05 PM

I am just curious about something (and this is NOT a post to bash etc.), what exactly is your connection to SAEPI??? You have already told us that you are NOT a member. If you can tell us, or PM me, I am just curious to know since , no offense, you seem be doing the most defending of them and arent even involved in the org.

mrblonde · #**168** 06-13-2002, 04:09 PM

'They are prepared for any reaction to what they undertook, even reactions like yours. '

I dont think any organization can be fully prepared for legitimate media portrayal, much less an ambiguous, biased source like MTV, and that it is unbelievably arrogant that an organization can think so. I am, however, as well as 99% of this board, willing to be gracious about the whole thing and give you the benefit of the doubt. I have a lot of pressing questions and I realize that MTV can twist certain things around, but they could be real answers and Im curious:

1) Wrestler Mick Foley stated in his book 'Have a Nice Day' that when on a newsmagazine program, he was shown two films of backyard wrestling and asked to give his opinions on each. The first was a mild taping with no one being hurt, and he said it looked like fun. The second was graphic, with lightbulbs and fire being used as weapons, and he replied by making a plea for this not to happen again. When the show aired, it showed the second, violent footage combined with the, 'it looks like fun' answer. Such a practice is legal, however unethical. When asked what your reasons were for joining a sorority, and then what the 'real reasons' were, were your answers grouped with the right questions?

2) Did you at any time speak for another GLO or group of GLOs to exonerate yourselves in front of the camera? (i.e. after appearing excessively drunk or otherwise disreputable, saying 'well, welcome to sorority life' or 'its a Greek thing, all Greeks do it', etc.)

3) Were the sisters that were opposed to the filming allowed to voice their opinions on camera, or at least allowed to not be filmed?

Feel free to not answer anything Ive asked here. You dont have to answer to me, nor do I have any right to pass judgement on your chapter. I, with the facts that I have, disagree with what has been going on thus far. I only ask that you answer my question to give me a better understanding of whats occurred. Until then, please respect the right of myself and others on this board to disagree with and criticize what we perceive as detrimental to Greek acceptance. If you choose to lambast (sp?) us for this for not having the facts, at least be open to questions.

AXO Alum · #**169** 06-15-2002, 02:02 PM

For those of you who THINK that in the fantasy-land you're living in that no one outside of greekdom would "notice" what MTV has created, here's a little article I found on charlotteobserver.com under Mark Washburn's column:

Posted on Sat, Jun. 15, 2002

TV/RADIO
MTV gets so real with `Sorority Life'
MARK WASHBURN

Sight unseen and from its title alone, I'm ready to pick the best reality series of this reality-rich summer.

"Sorority Life" will take us behind the scenes of a sorority rush as pledges try to join Sigma Alpha Epsilon Pi at the University of California at Davis.

Sorority rush. Oh the rituals, oh the cattiness, oh the cruelty, oh the calories.

This MTV travelogue of college nobility, still in the editing stages and not ready for preview, is scheduled to launch June 24 in a 10:30 p.m. time slot. MTV says it will probably run an hour each week.

Oh the plucking, oh the primping, oh the sheer she-just-doesn't-measure-up-ness. Oh, oh, oh. It just can't miss.

MTV is one of the pioneers of the reality genre that has swept the network landscape. "The Real World" debuted in 1992 with seven young adults plopped into a Manhattan loft and left to stew for months as the cameras drank it in.

CBS's "Survivor" is the conquering king of this drop-'em-in-a-fishbowl-and-watch approach, called "reality programming" even though it's as unreal as any life experience can be.

Did you notice what "GREAT" press greeks are already getting from this?! The "cattiness, cruelty, and calories" -- all I can say is "WAY TO GO GIRLS!"

Yeah - your 5 minutes of fame has cost us all a little more dignity -- which NONE of us can afford at this time.

Maybe you should contact every other publication that carries his commentary and let them know that "YOU REALLY DIDN'T SAY THOSE THINGS" -- I'm sure they'd fall all over themselves to print retractions...

As if I needed to say it -- DeltAlum, as usual you have called it from the start!

KappaTarzan · #**170** 06-15-2002, 02:08 PM

bottomline, the "sorority life" series will do nothing but harm the allready heavy stereotype of sororities.. to the girls out there in the same boat as i, those who are not the stereotype, hold tight and be true to yourself.. it will shine through all these stupid thoughts.. people who believe stereotypes are usually just uneducated to the truth.. lets try to show them!

Cloud9 · #**171** 06-15-2002, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGMA_INSIDER
[B]I cannot believe you even tried to compare this to murder. Murder has a completely negative outcome. How do you know the outcome of this show? http://www.sigmaaepi.com

Ok, you are not the first on this board unable to understand the relevant point made in a comparison. Let me explain it for you. If you read it over, you can see that I was not comparing reality tv to murder, which is a pretty ridiculous conclusion. My point is that just because something is inevitable, doesn't mean that if you decide to be the one who does it, you are: noble, know what you're doing, or responsible...in fact, quite the opposite. I'll explain it in another way--just because you think that no matter what, SOMEone SOMEwhere is going to make an unwise decision, doesn't mean thaat you should do it. I was hoping that I wouldn't need to explain this concept in such simple terms - I mean, we are all in college. But there you are.

Quote:

Read the Sigmas' statement. They are prepared for any reaction to what they undertook, even reactions like yours.

Oh I've read that statement a few times, and all I can say is that they are in no way prepared. Their explanations are feeble at best. But I'm getting carried away--look, I don't really want to "go after" these girls, I don't WISH them evil. I really, really feel bad for them, especially the ones who wisely backed away from it. But I'm dreading the show, I'm dreading the comments I'm going to get from people...comments based on people I've never even met. And you know what, I don't even need to see the episodes, I can already see all the bad publicity coming out of this - on the radio, in the papers, on the web--and it hasn't even aired yet! So to say that "you don't know cuz you haven't seen the show" is basically untrue. We DO know, because everything we've been worried about is already happening. And as before, I guess my main point is that as I said everyone here should really take this whole situation as a serious warning and wakeup call about approaching publicity, and really just using some common sense. Really, it amazes me how gullible people can be sometimes. Anyways, let me end with a fervent wish that all the mayhem that occurs will be at least short lived and forgotten!

josh8o · #**172** 06-15-2002, 03:38 PM

I don't really read this thread anymore because I think its way too much drama. Today I was glancing over the thread and I noticed people criticizing sigma alpha epsilon pi. someone said:

Did you notice what "GREAT" press Greeks are already getting from this?! The "cattiness, cruelty, and calories" -- all I can say is "WAY TO GO GIRLS!" Yeah - your 5 minutes of fame has cost us all a little more dignity -- which NONE of us can afford at this time.

Maybe you should contact every other publication that carries his commentary and let them know that "YOU REALLY DIDN'T SAY THOSE THINGS" -- I'm sure they'd fall all over themselves to print retractions...

by reading this, and a few other posts on here i have noticed that some of you girls are bitchy and rude. you get pissed if someone makes you look that way, but you don't try and see other people as different, and having alternative views on subjects. Have you ever agreed to disagree? I understand that this is a drama filled subject and everyone is very emotional...however if you are really nothing like what MTV is trying to make you out to be, then why do you come across as catty?

Thrillhouse · #**173** 06-15-2002, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by josh8o
I don't really read this thread anymore because I think its way too much drama. Today I was glancing over the thread and I noticed people criticizing sigma alpha epsilon pi. someone said:

Did you notice what "GREAT" press Greeks are already getting from this?! The "cattiness, cruelty, and calories" -- all I can say is "WAY TO GO GIRLS!" Yeah - your 5 minutes of fame has cost us all a little more dignity -- which NONE of us can afford at this time.

Maybe you should contact every other publication that carries his commentary and let them know that "YOU REALLY DIDN'T SAY THOSE THINGS" -- I'm sure they'd fall all over themselves to print retractions...

by reading this, and a few other posts on here i have noticed that some of you girls are bitchy and rude. you get pissed if someone makes you look that way, but you don't try and see other people as different, and having alternative views on subjects. Have you ever agreed to disagree? I understand that this is a drama filled subject and everyone is very emotional...however if you are really nothing like what MTV is trying to make you out to be, then why do you come across as catty?

Exactly, great post!

DeltAlum · #**174** 06-15-2002, 04:43 PM

AXO Alum wrote:

"As if I needed to say it -- DeltAlum, as usual you have called it from the start!"

I take no pleasure in this. I'm not all that bright, it's just that I've spent an awful long time working in TV Production and Production Management.

I still don't like the direct attacks on these women. A mistake is a mistake. I don't think anyone went out to deliberately harm the sorority image or the Greek System. They simply didn't understand the way this genre of "reality shows" work.

And, I still hope that maybe I'll be proven wrong. Sure doesn't look like it, though.

Peaches-n-Cream · #**175** 06-15-2002, 06:26 PM

I'm actually not too concerned about this show. Maybe I'll watch it or maybe not. I think that the viewers of MTV are sophisticated enough to know that it isn't reality.

AXO Alum · #**176** 06-15-2002, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by josh8o
I don't really read this thread anymore because I think its way too much drama. Today I was glancing over the thread and I noticed people criticizing sigma alpha epsilon pi. someone said:

Did you notice what "GREAT" press Greeks are already getting from this?! The "cattiness, cruelty, and calories" -- all I can say is "WAY TO GO GIRLS!" Yeah - your 5 minutes of fame has cost us all a little more dignity -- which NONE of us can afford at this time.

Maybe you should contact every other publication that carries his commentary and let them know that "YOU REALLY DIDN'T SAY THOSE THINGS" -- I'm sure they'd fall all over themselves to print retractions...

by reading this, and a few other posts on here i have noticed that some of you girls are bitchy and rude. you get pissed if someone makes you look that way, but you don't try and see other people as different, and having alternative views on subjects. Have you ever agreed to disagree? I understand that this is a drama filled subject and everyone is very emotional...however if you are really nothing like what MTV is trying to make you out to be, then why do you come across as catty?

Yes - I posted that! But those were the author's words -- not mine! As far as being catty -- I think losing sight of what MTV was REALLY after in the first place is a worse offense. Am I pissed about this? YES - because just like with other things in life, I hate to see what I have worked hard for fall apart in a matter of minutes because SOMEBODY (in this case those who participated from Sigma Alpha Epsilon Pi) made a POOR decision without thinking about the consequences! And WE all pay for those consequences. Nobody is going to watch this and say "oh, that's just the SAEPi's" -- nope, just like Mark Washburn did, it will be generalized to ALL sororities and greek life. Because this is what we have to deal with - media who wants the slant.

Anyone watch Survivor because you know that they are all going to be great friends and no one will get the boot? Hardly! You watch because you WANT to see the drama. Anybody go to see a movie because you heard it SUCKED and you want to watch people be nice to each other with no action? Yeah right!

Call me a bitch and call me rude if you want to - I've been called worse and here I am with MY opinion as always. I'm sorry, but I've worked too hard to see things fall apart on television in what we all knew was going to be the slanted view in the first place.

Hmmm...I know - let's all play "NICE" about this and pretend that nothing bad will come of it (not that we aren't already seeing the negative responses in the media!) Maybe if we all pretend really hard then we can all live in Fantasy Land!

(Side note...DeltAlum - I certainly wasn't calling you out - I just know that the other 3 million times we've discussed these issues, you have always said where it will lead. You have the most experience of anyone on these boards as far as media publications go, and you know what you're talking about. Unfortunately, some people STILL will not believe that crap stinks until they put their noses in it!!)

UNFSigmaChi · #**177** 06-15-2002, 07:21 PM

I don't know if you have seen the new Sorority Life commercial, but it says Life can be a bitch, and in this house we have a lot of them! Then they have members saying stuff like oh ya your going to gossip about everyone, people are bitchy, etc......thanks again girls.

Virtual Violet · #**178** 06-15-2002, 07:22 PM

I just saw the commercial....."Life's a BITCH and we've got a HOUSE FULL OF THEM!!? With all of the girls descrbing how much DRAMA there is in the house! WTF...with an intro like that, you know you're not going to see a positive view of sorority life!

KRXAlum · #**179** 06-15-2002, 09:47 PM

OK, I know a lot of people are upset, but do we really have to kick these girls while they are already down?

I understand that many people aren't happy about the situation because of the outcome this show may have. However, these girls are part of the Greek system. If your brother or sister did something you saw was very wrong/in bad judgement, would you constantly belittle them and make them feel worse then they all ready do, especially if they now understood they may have made a mistake? My guess is that you would get mad, but would eventually help them.

Yes, some may be mad at what happened, but instead of yelling at these girls, maybe all of us in the Greek community should calm ourselves for a moment and help those that may have made a decision that wasn't in their best interest. Comments like "Nice job girls," etc. etc. isn't helping anyone.

In fact, it may be proving a point to those who don't support Greeks that we aren't all really there for each other after all... and I know that isn't true. Just something for people to think about.

lioness · #**180** 06-15-2002, 10:24 PM

Let me start off by answering a few questions...
mrblonde-1. if you read some of the previously-posted messages, you will find that the phrases inserted in the promo were not reflective of the questions that were posed in the interviews. Of course, we knew that things would be taken out of context, but again, we were willing to accept that risk in the name of presenting our true qualities somewhere later down the line. 2. No Sigma that I know of would ever generalize our actions to the entire greek community. 3. Every sister in Sigma is allowed to voice her concerns, and yes, it was made very clear that sisters and rushees had the right to not be on camera. Thank you for trying to find out more about this situation.
FHwku-Yes, he’s a big dork! Finally, something we can all agree on!

And now for my novel...

While I know that greek chat is a valuable medium for addressing our thoughts and concerns, being away from it for awhile made me realize how important it is to stay out of this inevitable stir that the show will bring. I especially realized this after reading people’s reactions to the new promo, which were nearly identical to the reactions of the first one. If it took this long to clear some of the misconceptions about that one-minute clip, only to return to square one, in which people will continue to watch their TV screens and newspapers devoid of a critical eye, then I know I will completely tax myself out if I remain on this network when the show actually airs. All I intended to do was to help you see the the real side of things before making assumptions like "Sigma is selfish and doesn't care about the show’s impact on the Greek community" or "all they wanted was five minutes of fame." Hopefully, at least some of you have realized that neither was the case. I am absolutely O.K. with those of you who will ultimately think this was a big mistake, but only after you have gathered hard facts about the situation, not only concerning our motivations, but also regarding the effects that the show will have on the Greek system. If you hear first-hand a Sigma say she wanted to be on the show for “five minutes of fame”or a new couch, then go ahead and say that some of us were ill-intentioned. If you hear someone in Sigma say she had no idea that bad things would come of this, go ahead and say we’re living in “fantasy land.” If, after the show has aired, you hear a prospective greek member say that he or she was considering joining a fraternity or sorority until the show aired, then go ahead and say that everything for which we have been working so hard has amounted to nothing. I know there will be points where we’ll all be cringing at some of the upcoming scenes--including us Sigmas, of course. But I, for one, refuse to believe that any TV show, bad press, or negative viewer reaction will EVER tear Sigma apart, or for that matter, any other strong organization, especially ones that have been around 100 years longer than us. I am proud of our values, and no matter how much or how little they will shine through in the series, they will remain there when we return to school in the fall and long after.

Kappa Tarzan, I couldn’t have said it better myself: “to the girls out there in the same boat as i, those who are not the stereotype, hold tight and be true to yourself.. it will shine through all these stupid thoughts.. people who believe stereotypes are usually just uneducated to the truth.. lets try to show them!” And that’s exactly what we’ll keep on doing.

Signing off...