School Shooting Newtown CT

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Jeff OTMG

I have no idea. I might suggest that all permit holders or even gun owners be required to complete an MMPI and have it evaluated. I voluntarily took one some 30 odd years ago. Unfortunately we get into privacy issues, innocent until proven guilt, proving competency before exercising a right, there are many problems that need to be addressed. If we do this regarding 2nd Amendment rights then they must be applied equally to rights of free press, speech, expression, religion, and lawful assembly. A slippery slope.

I don't think you can compare owning a gun (a physical, tangible item) to practicing religion.

As bizarre as it is for me to look at PA state liquor stores as a model, maybe that's the answer - un-privatizing gun sales. There are too many dealers out there who will overlook the requirements to get the $$$.

[adpimiz]

^^ but, I truly do believe that better education about mental illness and more access to mental health care would make a big difference when it comes to preventing these shootings. For instance - why would the shooters mother have firearms in a home where she has a mentally ill child?

Interesting article. I do agree, the media definitely makes them seem more frequent.

[PiKA2001]

A newspaper in upstate New York is facing criticism after it published the names and addresses of gun owners throughout Westchester and Rockland counties.
The Journal News on Monday printed "The gun owner next door," which it reported by getting license information through Freedom of Information requests.
Westchester and Rockland counties provided names and addresses but denied the paper information about the number and type of guns possessed by each licensed owner. Putnam County was still processing the request and had not yet released information to the newspaper.
The article includes an interactive map of the two counties, allowing readers to see where each licensed owner lives.
Some commenters have criticized the Journal News for publishing the information.
"Do you fools realize that you also made a map for criminals to use to find homes to rob that have no guns in them to protect themselves?" One commenter wrote. "What a bunch of liberal boobs you all are."
"What RAG you guys publish," wrote another. "Only a Respectable News Outlet respects the privacy of private citizens."
A Westchester resident commented that publishing the information of people with guns amounts to publicizing those infected with auto-immune diseases.
"How about the journal news display how many people who have AIDS in this area," one wrote. "This is another way for people to fear people and cause segregation."

http://tv.yahoo.com/news/york-newspa...154215176.html

Wow, what a bunch of idiots. What could possibly be the point of doing this? Can't get a gun in upstate NY because you're a felon? No prob dude, just check the interactive map for a gun owner in your very own neighborhood and wait till he leaves on vacation or for work and just break in and steal his guns.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by Jeff OTMG

It has nothing to do with that aspect of being tangible or intangible. It is the exercise of at right. If we could require a test or standard be applied to firearms ownership, which I think would be a good idea but oppose based on the difference in a 'right' and a 'privledge', it would then be required for other rights under the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment. You must take a test to know the position of candidates before being allowed to vote. The press must have tested knowledge of a topic before being allowed to report on the topic. (This would be great for reporters speaking about 'assault rifles', 'high powered' ammunition, and automatic firearms.) Religion has probably caused more human on human death in the history of man. License religion so that the government can protect us from violent followers of some religions. People would also have to be licensed to practice their religion and if you claim to be Christian forget about being allowed to get an abortion. I support the right of a woman to choose, but I personally find it abhorent. My belief is based on religion and I believe that the governement cannot force a religious belief on the general populous. We are born with rights. Those rights are in the Constitution. Beyond that are privledges, which can be licensed and controlled by the government and I don't want to see rights become privledges. Rights must be exercised with responsibility and I do see some advantages to licensing rights, especially when it comes to voting, but I must oppose any attempt to regulate rights.

There are rights that are regulated everyday. One that comes to mind is the right to vote. And of course that doesn't even take into account that the second amendment specifically talks about a well regulated militia. Or that legally , using your own argument, only men between a certain age and women in the Guard are part of the militia.

Originally Posted by adpimiz

I just now saw this, and I completely agree.

As someone who has lived out in the country her entire life (except when I'm away at school), it's very comforting to know that my father has firearms that could protect us if someone were to break in to our home. People are vulnerable out in the middle of nowhere. It's an easy way for a criminal to try and commit a robbery without being noticed by passerbys, and calling 911 won't do much good when we have one sheriff for our entire county on duty at a time.

This is something that people who think nobody should ever possess a gun simply don't understand. Some people are responsible for their own safety.

I do understand that. However there is a big difference from somebody living out in the sticks and has a weapon IN THE HOME, for protection, and somebody in say Dallas who feels the need to walk around downtown with a weapon just because he can.

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

http://tv.yahoo.com/news/york-newspa...154215176.html

Wow, what a bunch of idiots. What could possibly be the point of doing this? Can't get a gun in upstate NY because you're a felon? No prob dude, just check the interactive map for a gun owner in your very own neighborhood and wait till he leaves on vacation or for work and just break in and steal his guns.

Umm you do realize that anybody has access to this information right?: While the people who do make the most use of sunshine laws are members of the news media, they are available for anybody to use.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Umm you do realize that anybody has access to this information right?: While the people who do make the most use of sunshine laws are members of the news media, they are available for anybody to use.

Umm i'm like 99% sure that sunshine laws don't cover issuance of CHL permits.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Umm i'm like 99% sure that sunshine laws don't cover issuance of CHL permits.

Both that article and a quick google search indicate that in New York, issuance of CHL permits are public records.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Both that article and a quick google search indicate that in New York, issuance of CHL permits are public records.

Yes it appears that NY is a little more lax in the release of that information but it doesn't answer the question of why they did it or what they were hoping to achieve with this. Ostracize gun owners? Treat CHL holders like they are rapists? I can't think of one single good reason to publish these peoples names, can you?

Some fallout from the map.
http://newyork.newsday.com/news/nati...-say-1.4407323

Inmates at the Rockland County jail are taunting corrections officers by saying they know the guards' home addresses -- information they got from the list published by Westchester-based newspaper, Rockland County Sheriff Louis Falco said.
"Since about 9:30 this morning, I've been in a meeting with my corrections officers and their unions. They have inmates coming up to them and telling them exactly where they live. That's not acceptable to me," Falco said at a news conference Friday morning in New City, where local leaders condemned the list.

"When I saw the list, I had an immediate flood of emotions that I cannot even describe to you," said Swift. "I originally obtained a gun permit because I had previously been married to a man who attempted to strangle me . . . The first emotion I felt was, 'Oh my gosh, he can find me.'"

Wieder (D-Spring Valley) called the publication of the list "irresponsible journalism" and said he now fears for his safety because the map broadcast that he does not have a gun license. At the news conference Friday morning, he handed a $150 certified check and a completed pistol permit application to Rockland County Clerk Paul Piperato.
"I never owned a gun but now I have no choice," Wieder said. "I have been exposed as someone that has no gun. And I'll do anything, anything to protect my family."

If the purpose is "public safety", they should publish the names and addresses of people being treated for psychological disorders, since that appears to be the real common denominator in all of these mass killings.

[adpimiz]

^^^^ WOW. I cannot imagine what news outlet could possibly think that's okay.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by adpimiz

^^^^ WOW. I cannot imagine what news outlet could possibly think that's okay.

I wonder if the newspaper or author of that article could be held responsible for any damages occurred from this?

[AOII Angel]

HIPAA

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

HIPAA

Laws can be changed. If the media can use it's influence to alter(try to at least) the peoples views on gun control they can do the same with those pesky, outdated HIPAA laws. It's in the best interest of the people to know who these crazies are so theses mass killings can finally stop!!

AHHHHHRGGGHH!

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Laws can be changed. If the media can use it's influence to alter(try to at least) the peoples views on gun control they can do the same with those pesky, outdated HIPAA laws. It's in the best interest of the people to know who these crazies are so theses mass killings can finally stop!!

AHHHHHRGGGHH!

Realize that very few people that seek treatment for mental illness commit crimes and that the people that shoot and kill people are not all mentally ill. It is a fallacy that all of these incidents are due to mental illness. BTW, while I find HIPAA annoying in many ways (mainly because people don't understand how to apply it) you would be very upset if someone violated your HIPAA rights and blasted your personal medical information to anyone...say your boss or your parents. There are good reasons for these laws.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Realize that very few people that seek treatment for mental illness commit crimes and that the people that shoot and kill people are not all mentally ill. It is a fallacy that all of these incidents are due to mental illness. BTW, while I find HIPAA annoying in many ways (mainly because people don't understand how to apply it) you would be very upset if someone violated your HIPAA rights and blasted your personal medical information to anyone...say your boss or your parents. There are good reasons for these laws.

I was being facetious there. I don't think someone who is seeking treatment for a mental illness is any more dangerous to society than an CHL holder but many people will disagree with that. Gun crimes in this country are extremely low given the estimated 280 million privately owned firearms that are out there. If we the people were as irresponsible with firearms as some activists and politicians pretend we are how come we aren't having 1,000+ shootings a day? More people are killed in DUI related car accidents every year in the U.S. than gun homicides (not including suicides). Typically gun crimes are committed by people using stolen or illegally obtained firearms, not CHL holders, so why make them the target?

[AOII Angel]

You should use the facetious smiley next time. It's hard to read that intent over the Internet. The rest, tl;dr.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

If we the people were as irresponsible with firearms as some activists and politicians pretend we are how come we aren't having 1,000+ shootings a day? More people are killed in DUI related car accidents every year in the U.S. than gun homicides (not including suicides). Typically gun crimes are committed by people using stolen or illegally obtained firearms, not CHL holders, so why make them the target?

Haven't been reading the hometown papers lately, eh?