University fo Okahoma-Sigma Alpha Epsilon-Racial Chant

[ChioLu]

OU has an outside attorney to investigate: http://m.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/....html?mode=jqm

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

There are plenty of racist people in positions to hire.

Do you have any actual examples?

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Do you have any actual examples?

Of racism in hiring? Countless studies, but here are a few:

http://www.chicagobooth.edu/capideas...acialbias.html

http://www.southernstudies.org/2013/...-for-raci.html

Or did you mean examples of people who hate blacks? I'm pretty sure you can find some links like that, but I ain't gonna do it from my work computer.

[Kevin]

You're stating that there are plenty of people who seek out racists to hire. You do like to ride the raggety edge of self-righteousness... here, I think you may have overstepped.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Kevin

You're stating that there are plenty of people who seek out racists to hire. You do like to ride the raggety edge of self-righteousness... here, I think you may have overstepped.

In what sense? You don't think there are lots of people who see nothing wrong with the chant?

I'd personally love to think that anyone dumb enough to think it's okay to sing about lynching is also too dumb to be in a position of hiring authority, but that's not the country we live in.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

In what sense? You don't think there are lots of people who see nothing wrong with the chant?

I honestly don't think the SAE members thought the chant was okay. I think they were going for shock value for their dates and were just having a good time living dangerously by chanting stuff they knew would turn some heads. I'm just trying to get into the mind of a 19 year old privileged white kid (not too hard for me to do) and think that's more what was going on here. I'm not sure that's enough to make someone racist... but it certainly calls into question their judgment and character.

I'd personally love to think that anyone dumb enough to think it's okay to sing about lynching is also too dumb to be in a position of hiring authority, but that's not the country we live in.

But that's not what you said. You said:

Let's be honest, there are plenty of people out there to whom these guys just became great candidates for employment.

Which could be taken no other way than that you really think employers are going to seek these guys out because they appear to be racist.

[Nanners52674]

Welp, Dr. Phil is doing a episode on this today. That's some serious publicity.

[naraht]

It is *entirely* possible that both the President of the University of Oklahoma and the National President of Sigma Alpha Epsilon may be found to have taken actions which will ultimately when everything legal is straightened out, be found to be overreactions.

*However*, for University of Oklahoma, even *if* the University is ultimately found to unreasonably broken the housing contracts both with OU SAE and with the individual brothers *and* to have unreasonably expelled the two students without investigations, it will still be *cheaper* for the University to have done so in terms of losses to the school in reputation.

*Similarly*, even if Sigma Alpha Epsilon ultimately decides at their convention to not revoke the charter, from a *reputation* standpoint, the kneejerk reaction probably was the best thing for the Fraternity.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'm not sure that's enough to make someone racist...

Originally Posted by Kevin

Which could be taken no other way than that you really think employers are going to seek these guys out because they appear to be racist.

I think there are people who will seek these guys out as free speech martyrs.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

As a recently banned GCer said in a slightly different context in a now-closed thread:

Here is the continuum:

Dumb -------------- Insensitive ----------------- Racist

Something can be considered dumb and insensitive without it being considered "racist". Something being dumb and insensitive is enough to axe it without question.

I think it's possible for someone to be stupid, insensitive or even ignorant and, as a result to engage in racist behavior without racism being so pervasive in who they are that deserve to be called "racists." Put another way, I sometimes (not always) think it's more helpful to talk about actions and attitudes being racist than about people being racists. Sometimes. (Which is why I put the remainder of Kevin's quote back in.)

That's why I'm always a little skeptical when I hear someone say something like "there's not a racist bone in my body." I'm sure there are people for whom that's true, but I don't think it's true of most of us. I know it's not for me. I certainly don't mean to be racist—I mean not be be—but sometimes I have to look honestly at myself and, perhaps at a certain attitude or reaction, and admit that it's not pretty and that it needs to change.

I don't think I'm a racist, but that doesn't mean I'm free of the subtle racisms pervading the society of which I am part of the majority. Personally, I think it's healthier to admit that and try to be on guard for it than to deceive myself into thinking that I don't have a racist bone in my body.

My sinuses are not happy at all right now, so apologies if this isn't making any sense.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by naraht

It is *entirely* possible that both the President of the University of Oklahoma and the National President of Sigma Alpha Epsilon may be found to have taken actions which will ultimately when everything legal is straightened out, be found to be overreactions.

The President of SAE (at least by law, I have no idea about any of SAE's internal machinations) shouldn't see any legal issues here. SAE is a private organization. The government doesn't guarantee you due process rights with regard to private entities.

As for Boren, he could give two craps about the Constitution here... and while that's probably something a lot of you support, but we can't say we have these rights unless we're willing to defend the worst of us. I anticipate the University will end up writing a check to someone if they file suit and it's not keeping Boren up nights.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by Kevin

and while that's probably something a lot of you support

Oh come-the-fuck-on, Kevin, stop being such a douchecanoe.

[Kevin]

You're right. I shouldn't have used the word "probably."

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by Kevin

You're right. I shouldn't have used the word "probably."

[SWTXBelle]

Thank God, students at UGA are now safe from the horror of racist hoop skirts.

http://onlineathens.com/uga/2015-03-...aternity-video