Teacher's salaries

[Rudey]

Originally posted by ForeverDiamond
And it is because of teachers that those people were able to gain the knowledge they needed to get the job that makes them that income.

Oh really? Why is that?

-Rudey

[texas*princess]

Firstly, how much you know about the field determines how good of a job you will do.

If it was possible, I could probably step in a courtroom tomorrow and try to be a lawyer, but since I never studied law (besides that one semester in contract law ) I probably won't do a good job. And I think it's the same with teaching.

Secondly, I agree that most of us know what our financial outlooks are going to be based on the career paths we choose. Most all teachers know they will not become millionaires or even anything CLOSE to that when they choose education as their career paths. Every teacher I know (before someone flames me for this one, please note I included the "I know".. I may not know your high school teacher or your gym teacher or whatever) did not go into education to be rich. They did it because they love kids, they love helping kids.. They actually found their careers to be rewarding even though it it is not very financially rewarding (at least in my area).

I have a close friend who was considering the education field, and told me "I love working with kids, and I would love to help them learn things =BUT= I know I'm not going to get paid a lot" .. and it's true.

Originally posted by KSigkid
A couple of things after reading through this thread.

I don't see anywhere where Rudey has said that teachers are bad people, that teaching isn't a worthwhile profession, etc. He simply stated a fact that it's more difficult to step into his field without experience than it is to step into a classroom. If you're at all familiar with finance, markets and the industry, you would agree.

I doubt any of us could go in and perform a surgery. Very few of us could build a case for court, create financial models or write a novel. That's just the way it is.

I'll say again I'm speaking from experience; as I've said, I've had experience teaching, from preschool to early elementary school. This was while taking classes full-time in college. It's just a fact of life, more people could step into a classroom and do the job than in other jobs. That doesn't mean that it won't be hard, and it doesn't mean that teachers don't earn their money.

Secondly; I'd venture to say that we all knew what our financial outlook was when we took our current positions or decided to go a certain career path. I knew going into my current job that I wasn't going to make a ton of money, and that it would be after an advanced degree in another industry that I would be making a sizable income. As such, if you're going into teaching, you're not doing it to become rich.

Does this mean that teacher's don't deserve more salary? It depends on the teacher, the school district and a variety of other factors. There is a financial burden associated with the profession, though, and I think everyone who goes into the field knows that.

After the first couple of pages of the thread, I think people on the most part have been respectful of the teaching profession as a whole. I think we've pushed this thread into something very different, and that's where people are becoming heated.

[texas*princess]

Originally posted by Rudey
Oh really? Why is that?

-Rudey

that made no sense

[Rudey]

Originally posted by texas*princess
that made no sense

No it made perfect sense actually. I'm sorry you don't understand a question with 3 words using very simple wording.

Perhaps you should speak with your teachers.

-Rudey

[Rudey]

No you can't step into a courtroom and try to be a lawyer.

-Rudey

Originally posted by texas*princess
Firstly, how much you know about the field determines how good of a job you will do.

If it was possible, I could probably step in a courtroom tomorrow and try to be a lawyer, but since I never studied law (besides that one semester in contract law ) I probably won't do a good job. And I think it's the same with teaching.

Secondly, I agree that most of us know what our financial outlooks are going to be based on the career paths we choose. Most all teachers know they will not become millionaires or even anything CLOSE to that when they choose education as their career paths. Every teacher I know (before someone flames me for this one, please note I included the "I know".. I may not know your high school teacher or your gym teacher or whatever) did not go into education to be rich. They did it because they love kids, they love helping kids.. They actually found their careers to be rewarding even though it it is not very financially rewarding (at least in my area).

I have a close friend who was considering the education field, and told me "I love working with kids, and I would love to help them learn things =BUT= I know I'm not going to get paid a lot" .. and it's true.

[texas*princess]

Originally posted by Rudey
No it made perfect sense actually. I'm sorry you don't understand a question with 3 words using very simple wording.

Perhaps you should speak with your teachers.

-Rudey

i'm sorry you're an ass and try to belittle other people to make yourself feel good.
maybe you should speak to a shrink.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by texas*princess
i'm sorry you're an ass and try to belittle other people to make yourself feel good.
maybe you should speak to a shrink.

Nobody is trying to "belittle" anyone. But thank you for insulting me and saying a I "should speak to a shrink."

Perhaps you should not only speak to your teacher about not understanding a 3 word question but also about misdiagnosing psychological disorders and also general manners as well.

-Rudey

[texas*princess]

Originally posted by Rudey
Nobody is trying to "belittle" anyone. But thank you for insulting me and saying a I "should speak to a shrink."

Perhaps you should not only speak to your teacher about not understanding a 3 word question but also about misdiagnosing psychological disorders and also general manners as well.

-Rudey

not trying to belittle anyone? sure.. who's ignorant now Rudey Hmm that would be you.

Anytime anyone has an opinion that doesn't match your own all you can do is make snarky remarks about how dumb their opinion is and how everyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong.

[kddani]

I actually think Rudey has been fairly well behaved in this thread and kept it to a civil, intelligent, decent discussion for the most part.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by texas*princess
not trying to belittle anyone? sure.. who's ignorant now Rudey Hmm that would be you.

Anytime anyone has an opinion that doesn't match your own all you can do is make snarky remarks about how dumb their opinion is and how everyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong.

No. It's simple. You are wrong. Now you're attacking me. Please stop. You are now embarassing yourself.

I can't believe you belittled people that work in retail earlier. You are an awful person for attacking people like that. And then you belittle lawyers by pretending you can just step into a courtroom and be a lawyer.

-Rudey

[PhoenixAzul]

Well, since I went through the Pittsburgh Public School system and my uncle works for the PPS (as a custodian at the new CAPA), I feel I can comment on this.

My teachers had to put up with way more shit than they ever needed to. I remember when I weas in 8th grade...a shop teacher at Brashear had his BRAINS bashed in with a sledge hammer. There have been numerous teachers assaulted, harassed, overworked and underpaid in our public schools. They must constantly be up to date on state laws on education, new teaching theorys, test requirements, etc. Most of my teachers were open about how much they made. In PPS, teachers get paid extra if they coach a sport or hold another position in the school. For example, my functions teacher was also the athletic director, activities director, and wrestling coach. It is also very difficult to earn a decent retirement. We rarely had books for everyone, computers that worked, software that was updated, enough teachers for our gym classes to be run properly, or enough counselors to ensure that kids were applying to college or even getting the courses they needed to graduate. There is a lot of pressure to get students to pass the PSSA test and the thousands of other redundant tests that we have to take. I think that the amount of time it takes to make more than the state average is ridiculous. The union is very strong, but that's Pittsburgh. Union and proud. So do I think Pittsburgh teachers are paid enough? Hell no. I don't think they will ever be paid enough to do what they do. I was lucky enough to have excellent teachers, but I grew up in an environment that was not exactly ideal for letting students blossom into Rhodes Scholars. It'd be great to go to a Mt. Lebanon or a Sewickley Academy, but my mom and dad didn't have a silver spoon for me. But that's part of being working class, blue collar, and even *gasp* lower middle class, is that you learn to take nothing for granted. Everything is a result of hard work. Most of these teachers come from that background, so I don't feel bad paying them more than the state average for their hard work.

[Rudey]

There are airport security people that deal with daily stress from being able to protect the nation and our citizens. They also deal with the stress of travelers that get angry. I admit, I can get downright nasty if someone tries to get me to take off my shoes when I tell them there is no metal in it and there is no rule that says I have to do that. But nobody talks about their wages not being enough.

And how about cops that are shot at on a daily basis? Should their pay be astronomically higher? Perhaps Iraqi cops should be paid a million US dollars a piece since chances are greater that they will die when they serve.

The unions should be destroyed and I will be happy to see many municipalities move to pay teachers based on performance rather than tenure. That would be great.

-Rudey

Originally posted by PhoenixAzul
Well, since I went through the Pittsburgh Public School system and my uncle works for the PPS (as a custodian at the new CAPA), I feel I can comment on this.

My teachers had to put up with way more shit than they ever needed to. I remember when I weas in 8th grade...a shop teacher at Brashear had his BRAINS bashed in with a sledge hammer. There have been numerous teachers assaulted, harassed, overworked and underpaid in our public schools. They must constantly be up to date on state laws on education, new teaching theorys, test requirements, etc. Most of my teachers were open about how much they made. In PPS, teachers get paid extra if they coach a sport or hold another position in the school. For example, my functions teacher was also the athletic director, activities director, and wrestling coach. It is also very difficult to earn a decent retirement. We rarely had books for everyone, computers that worked, software that was updated, enough teachers for our gym classes to be run properly, or enough counselors to ensure that kids were applying to college or even getting the courses they needed to graduate. There is a lot of pressure to get students to pass the PSSA test and the thousands of other redundant tests that we have to take. I think that the amount of time it takes to make more than the state average is ridiculous. The union is very strong, but that's Pittsburgh. Union and proud. So do I think Pittsburgh teachers are paid enough? Hell no. I don't think they will ever be paid enough to do what they do. I was lucky enough to have excellent teachers, but I grew up in an environment that was not exactly ideal for letting students blossom into Rhodes Scholars. It'd be great to go to a Mt. Lebanon or a Sewickley Academy, but my mom and dad didn't have a silver spoon for me. But that's part of being working class, blue collar, and even *gasp* lower middle class, is that you learn to take nothing for granted. Everything is a result of hard work. Most of these teachers come from that background, so I don't feel bad paying them more than the state average for their hard work.

[33girl]

Originally posted by PhoenixAzul
Well, since I went through the Pittsburgh Public School system and my uncle works for the PPS (as a custodian at the new CAPA), I feel I can comment on this.

City schools are a whole 'nother ball of wax than what Danielle & I are talking about...I don't think there's an amount of money in the world large enough for the isht some of those teachers must have to deal with.

[kddani]

Originally posted by 33girl
City schools are a whole 'nother ball of wax than what Danielle & I are talking about...I don't think there's an amount of money in the world large enough for the isht some of those teachers must have to deal with.

Agreed. I don't think it's fair or right that lazy teachers in my school district 12 miles away from Pittsburgh get paid $75,000 for what is a cake job compared to what the teachers put up with in the city schools.

On a side note, had my family not moved to the 'burbs when I was in kindergarten, I would've gone to Brashear.

[ZTAngel]

Originally posted by Rudey
The unions should be destroyed and I will be happy to see many municipalities move to pay teachers based on performance rather than tenure. That would be great.

I agree. I don't have a solution as to how to determine teacher performance but I definitely think that their salaries should be based upon both tenure and performance. Almost every job out there is performance-based. If I don't meet client expectations, if I don't meet my deadlines, if I just suck at what I do, then I won't get a raise. Plain and simple. I've had a ton of teachers who didn't teach and still kept their job and got a pay raise. The worst was my Spanish II in high school. She had a speech impediment where she would literally choke as she spoke. She had to pause after every syllable so she sounded like this: "My...name...is...Sen...ora...Blan...co. I...am...your...Span...ish...teach...er." Mix that with an incredibly thick accent and her awful choking noises after each sentence and you'll have a good idea of what I had to endure for the year. My mom begged the school guidance counselors to switch me into another class but they were all full. I learned absolutely nothing in that class because I couldn't understand her. How could you have someone teaching a foreign language who can't even speak?!?!?! It doesn't make sense. She realized how frustrated students were getting so she just gave up after awhile. She devoted 30 minutes of her class to doing stuff out of workbook and the other 30 minutes were 'study hall' where we did homework for our other classes. When the students who were in her class took Spanish III the next year, we were all so far behind that our Spanish III stayed after-school to tutor us.
Ms. Blanco is still teaching at my high school. The county is so desperate for Spanish teachers that they've kept her there. My Spanish III teacher is also working there. Since they both have the same number of years experience, they get paid the same. My Spanish III teacher should get paid more but she doesn't. She spends her time after school helping the students and she's a great teacher. Ms. Blanco teachers her students nothing. If they worked in the business field, Ms. Blanco's ass would've been out the door a long time ago while my Spanish III teacher would've had a raise and a promotion.