PiKA Costume party - black face - bye-bye - Page 11

moe.ron · #**151** 03-18-2004, 04:18 AM

I personally think that it was not an accident. They knew what they were doing. If it was an accident, then those boys are retarded. Should they be punished? It depend on the particular school and their national organization's policies. I do not know enough about the said policies, so I can't comment.

kddani · #**152** 03-18-2004, 08:14 AM

I do not agree with what these boys did at all. But from a constitutional standpoint, Colonist is right. Sadly.

preciousjeni · #**153** 03-18-2004, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Colonist
Guess what, I hate to break it to you but they deserve no punishment.

As for saying "wear blackface to random place and see what happens" great they got a rise out of you and guess what, what they are doing is not illegal, anyone laying a hand on them or anyone else IS.

If someone wants in uniform, blackjack boots and fly the swastika, then that is their right and is perfectly legal, now if someone else walks up, takes offense and punches said person, then that is illegal.

Freedom of expression and of speech applies to everything, not just when it is convienent for you or other racial minority groups.

Scary thought! Anyway, we all know what they did wasn't constitutionally illegal. So, everyone can stop trying to "explain" that aspect. Those of us with brains and souls are saying that something must be done to end this behavior. The fraternity is on campus only with permission from the university. All organizations are on campus by permission, and must abide by certain rules. For that matter, all students agree to abide by certain rules when they attend to a particular school. That is the issue!

Kevin · #**154** 03-18-2004, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by preciousjeni
Scary thought! Anyway, we all know what they did wasn't constitutionally illegal. So, everyone can stop trying to "explain" that aspect. Those of us with brains and souls are saying that something must be done to end this behavior. The fraternity is on campus only with permission from the university. All organizations are on campus by permission, and must abide by certain rules. For that matter, all students agree to abide by certain rules when they attend to a particular school. That is the issue!

If it's a public university, they have no business stepping in on free speech just because it is stupid and offensive. The university of course can pull recognition. However, it has been shown that groups that are not recognized by the university are even more of a liability than before, so administrators are careful about doing that sort of thing.

There's such a tendency to react and do whatever makes you feel better. However, that's not always legal or practical.

No one was physically injured here. No one's rights were infringed upon. If I had a nickel for every time someone around me did something that made me uncomfortable, I'd be a rich man. This righteous indignation by peope in no way associated with the event here is actually kind of silly.

DeltAlum · #**155** 03-18-2004, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by moe.ron
I personally think that it was not an accident. They knew what they were doing. If it was an accident, then those boys are retarded.

College students, as a group, aren't much different from any other group. Some are bright, some not so. Some are considerate, some aren't. Some are hurtful, most not.

Many are in their own little fogged in world and have little idea what's going on in the bigger picture.

I don't know these guys or their background.

This topic comes up year after year. I find it difficult to believe that everyone who has been involved has hidden or overt racist issues.

I think that they just don't. Think, that is.

Rudey · #**156** 03-18-2004, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by preciousjeni
Scary thought! Anyway, we all know what they did wasn't constitutionally illegal. So, everyone can stop trying to "explain" that aspect. Those of us with brains and souls are saying that something must be done to end this behavior. The fraternity is on campus only with permission from the university. All organizations are on campus by permission, and must abide by certain rules. For that matter, all students agree to abide by certain rules when they attend to a particular school. That is the issue!

There are lots of groups on campus that I want removed now because I find their behavior unacceptable. None of them are private even.

-Rudey

deuika · #**157** 03-18-2004, 02:34 PM

Actually, from a constitutional standpoint Colonist is WRONG.
People should perhaps read the thing before they start spouting "Constitution".
Sure, we have Freedom of Speech, and Expression; but both "Freedoms" are conditional. For Example, there are these little things called "Fighting Words" not covered by the Freedom of Speech. Also, as far as Freedom of Expression, it was directly tied to religion in the Constitution, as it stands now it covers assembly etc. Also, in order to us a "Freedom of Expression" argument one must present a case in which his/her Expression did not infringe on another person's rights. Seeing as this little incident did indeed infringe and alienate, it is punishable.
Again, they can and will be punished. You don't like it too darn bad.

kddani · #**158** 03-18-2004, 02:54 PM

Blackface is not a fighting word.

Also, the burden would not be on the person being prosecuted to prove anything. It would be on the party trying to bring charges against them. Innocent until proven guilty. It would be the burden of the offended party to prove that this infringed on their rights. And it must be a VERY persuasive argument, as courts are very remiss to limit anyone's speech. It's not an impossible argument, but it would be very difficult, and would cost a good deal of money to litigate.

They should be punished. Absolutely. But the only people who can adequately do that is the GLO, which is a private organization that doesn't receive gov't funding. The school can't do much if it receives any gov't funding (which there are VERY few institutions that do not)- not to mention that the school can't really afford to deal with more lawsuits than necesary.

A quick search of GA federal and state cases reveals none that mention blackface. In cases outside of that jurisdiction, blackface is generally considered as nonverbal speech protected by the first amendment. That's just from a quick scan of Lexis.

For people who are really interested in this kind of subject, i'd really suggest seeing if your school offers a Freedom of Speech class.... during undergrad, it was offered through my school's communications department. There are also many constitutional based classes in poli sci and history departments. Or if you really want to put yourself through hell, go to law school

deuika · #**159** 03-18-2004, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kddani
Blackface is not a fighting word.

Also, the burden would not be on the person being prosecuted to prove anything. It would be on the party trying to bring charges against them. Innocent until proven guilty. It would be the burden of the offended party to prove that this infringed on their rights. And it must be a VERY persuasive argument, as courts are very remiss to limit anyone's speech. It's not an impossible argument, but it would be very difficult, and would cost a good deal of money to litigate.

They should be punished. Absolutely. But the only people who can adequately do that is the GLO, which is a private organization that doesn't receive gov't funding. The school can't do much if it receives any gov't funding (which there are VERY few institutions that do not)- not to mention that the school can't really afford to deal with more lawsuits than necesary.

A quick search of GA federal and state cases reveals none that mention blackface. In cases outside of that jurisdiction, blackface is generally considered as nonverbal speech protected by the first amendment. That's just from a quick scan of Lexis.

For people who are really interested in this kind of subject, i'd really suggest seeing if your school offers a Freedom of Speech class.... during undergrad, it was offered through my school's communications department. There are also many constitutional based classes in poli sci and history departments. Or if you really want to put yourself through hell, go to law school

I know Blackface isn't a fighting word, I was using that to say that Freedom of Speech isn't "definite". Yeah it will be a hard case to prove that their rights were infringed upon, but it can happen.

What law school do you go to?

kddani · #**160** 03-18-2004, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by deuika

What law school do you go to?

University of Pittsburgh. I'm in my second year.

LatinaAlumna · #**161** 03-18-2004, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
You told ktsnake he couldn't play because he was from a small town. I live in the inner city so I want to know if my opinions still get to matter.

You did not get what I meant. I said "what do you mean can you "still" play?" because all I saw you contribute to this thread was inflamatory comments regarding the NPHC and their intake process, and an erroneous comment on a song lyric.

Rudey · #**162** 03-18-2004, 06:06 PM

1. Yes it was stupid.

2. Whether they did it by accident or not doesn't matter; they did it.

3. Those that have the power to punish will do it. If the university hasn't got the power it won't.

4. The punishment will be as appropriate as they see fit and they will be the ones who decide it, not you.

5. If people don't like it, don't join and don't associate with them. That is all you can do.

6. Compton is a crap hole. Yes there might be a couple good kids in there, but deal with it. It is a crappy neighborhood...it is in the league of awful neighborhoods to live in.

-Rudey
--Now stop bickering because Rudey laid it down for you

LatinaAlumna · #**163** 03-18-2004, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
1. Yes it was stupid.

2. Whether they did it by accident or not doesn't matter; they did it.

3. Those that have the power to punish will do it. If the university hasn't got the power it won't.

4. The punishment will be as appropriate as they see fit and they will be the ones who decide it, not you.

5. If people don't like it, don't join and don't associate with them. That is all you can do.

6. Compton is a crap hole. Yes there might be a couple good kids in there, but deal with it. It is a crappy neighborhood...it is in the league of awful neighborhoods to live in.

-Rudey
--Now stop bickering because Rudey laid it down for you

And we should listen to YOU because ...?????

Rudey · #**164** 03-18-2004, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LatinaAlumna
And we should listen to YOU because ...?????

Because I'm right. By your logic, I'm also from a big city, the biggest and best actually, and I'm telling you Compton is a hole. Hopefully one day it'll get better or you'll be able to move out, but it's a hole.

-Rudey

LatinaAlumna · #**165** 03-18-2004, 07:04 PM

Move out? When did I say I ever lived there?

If you read all my posts you would see that I work with the school district and the families there. There are many parts of LA that people live in. I never said where I do, but perhaps Rudey, since you see that I am "LatinaAlumna" you just made an assumption.

Shows how much you pay attention. I also never said anything about people from big cities knowing more, but you and GeekyPenguin over here seem to harp on that. I told ktsnake that since he is from such a small city, I can see why his view might be different. Pay attention.