Order of the Phoenix Spoiler Thread - Page 11

Lady Pi Phi · #**151** 07-08-2003, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SigmaChiCard
...I can never remember, who of Harry's grandparents were magical?

I believe that his grandparents on his mother's side were muggles, I am assuming that James' parents were magical. Although I don't remember reading anything too indepth about the grandparents. I do remember Aunt Petunia saying that her parents were excited to have a witch in the family which lead me to assume that Lily was the first witch.

MysticCat · #**152** 07-08-2003, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
[BI do remember Aunt Petunia saying that her parents were excited to have a witch in the family which lead me to assume that Lily was the first witch. [/B]

That's what I've always assumed, too, but after reading OotP, I wonder. Perhaps they were excited to have a witch in the family because their other daughter, Petunia, was a squib? I wonder if Petunia doesn't resent all witches and wizards because she isn't one. Seemed a little odd to me that she would know about Azkaban and dementors just because she remembers Lilly mentioning them when, apparently, she wanted to have very little to do with Lilly and James.

Just speculatin'.

SigmaChiCard · #**153** 07-08-2003, 04:48 PM

Quote:

I do remember Aunt Petunia saying that her parents were excited to have a witch in the family which lead me to assume that Lily was the first witch.

See, I recall her having said this too, but to me it didn't neccesarily mean that she was the first. Aunt Petunia seems to know a decent bit about the magical world, because it came to her without her even having to think for a second about what azkaban was...had she only heard it once when she was young it would be hard to imagine that she recalled it that easily. Y'know? Seems like the chances are she was at least raised in a slightly more magic-conscious home...

Lady Pi Phi · #**154** 07-08-2003, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MysticCat81
That's what I've always assumed, too, but after reading OotP, I wonder. Perhaps they were excited to have a witch in the family because their other daughter, Petunia, was a squib? I wonder if Petunia doesn't resent all witches and wizards because she isn't one. Seemed a little odd to me that she would know about Azkaban and dementors just because she remembers Lilly mentioning them when, apparently, she wanted to have very little to do with Lilly and James.

Just speculatin'.

No, I don't think Petunia is a Squib, because in the first book, McGonagall remarks that "the Dursley's are the worst sort of Muggles imaginable". I think if Petunia was a Squib, it would have mentioned that.

sherbertlemons · #**155** 07-08-2003, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
No, I don't think Petunia is a Squib, because in the first book, McGonagall remarks that "the Dursley's are the worst sort of Muggles imaginable". I think if Petunia was a Squib, it would have mentioned that.

What if JK Rowling was deliberately not mentioning that then? Maybe it will be a major plot issue later on. Wouldn't be the first time she's withheld important info until a later date for plot purposes.

I agree with SigmaChiCard, my fist thought when I read that scene was that she sounds waaaaay too familiar with magical stuff for a muggle.

A friend of mine pointed out another possible way to explain it, though. Perhaps Petunia became involved with a wizard friend of Lily's and got burned? That would explain her familiarity with magical term and hatred of wizards. Either way, I think there's a lot Vernon Dursley doesn't know about his wife.

Also, AggieSigmaNu, that's a great observation about Percy. Just adds more ammo to my Percy theory.

I wonder if there's a term for muggles who have wizarding relatives? I know one hasn't been mentioned in the books so far, but I'm just wondering if one will crop up. I mean, some of them could likely be very knowlegable about the wizarding world, and maybe even in some ways a member of the community.

Lady Pi Phi · #**156** 07-08-2003, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sherbertlemons
What if JK Rowling was deliberately not mentioning that then? Maybe it will be a major plot issue later on. Wouldn't be the first time she's withheld important info until a later date for plot purposes.

I agree with SigmaChiCard, my fist thought when I read that scene was that she sounds waaaaay too familiar with magical stuff for a muggle.

A friend of mine pointed out another possible way to explain it, though. Perhaps Petunia became involved with a wizard friend of Lily's and got burned? That would explain her familiarity with magical term and hatred of wizards. Either way, I think there's a lot Vernon Dursley doesn't know about his wife.

I wonder if there's a term for muggles who have wizarding relatives? I know one hasn't been mentioned in the books so far, but I'm just wondering if one will crop up. I mean, some of them could likely be very knowlegable about the wizarding world, and maybe even in some ways a member of the community.

It's entirely poosible. I guess we'll find out (or not) in the next two books). I just think Petunia knows a lot about the wizarding world because she grew up around it (with Lily being a witch and all), she probably learned a lot about it from her.

I also don't think that Petunia thinks she's a "freak", but was probably very jealous about her, and to this day still holds a grudge.

CutiePie2000 · #**157** 07-08-2003, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
No, I don't think Petunia is a Squib, because in the first book, McGonagall remarks that "the Dursley's are the worst sort of Muggles imaginable". I think if Petunia was a Squib, it would have mentioned that.

No, I don't think Joanne K. R. would have given that up right off the bat. Although, I think Lily was like Hermione, a magic person born to non-magic people. Or maybe the family was magic and Petunia is a squib (remember, you don't find out that Filch is a squib until Book 3, I believe)

Quote:

Originally posted by SigmaChiCard
There are a couple differnt covers.
......

SigmaChiCard,
Here are more
Harry Potter covers than you can shake a stick at....(yes, I went a little nuts!)

Beryana · #**158** 07-08-2003, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CutiePie2000
No, I don't think Joanne K. R. would have given that up right off the bat. Although, I think Lily was like Hermione, a magic person born to non-magic people. Or maybe the family was magic and Petunia is a squib (remember, you don't find out that Filch is a squib until Book 3, I believe)

I don't think that Petunia is a squib because JKR makes a big deal about mentioning Lily is a 'mudblood' when V refers to her, etc. I actually think that Lily and Petunia's parents are squibs which is why they would be VERY excited that at least one of their daughters got a letter from Hogwarts. It also explains how Petunia knows as much as she does about the Wizarding World. The definition of a muggle is a non-magic person - which would technically include squibs (though squib is used to distinguish the wizard parents. . . ).

Just another theory to throw out until we get books 6 and 7. . .

Sarah

aephi alum · #**159** 07-08-2003, 11:19 PM

My husband and I just finished reading OotP. We decided that the only way to read it without a divorce resulting

was to read it aloud to each other... that's why it took so long.

I haven't read through this entire thread in detail yet, but I just have to say DAMN... this is NOT a book for kids!! I went into it knowing it would be dark, and knowing that someone would die, but even so...!!

As for the exams, I'm familiar with the British system, though I was not educated through it. As I understand it, O-levels are like high school proficiency exams in particular subjects (like the New York State Regents or other similar exams - not like SATs or ACTs, which are general proficiency exams) and A-levels are like AP exams. So O.W.L.s (O-levels) would demonstrate basic proficiency in various subjects that all wizarding-school graduates would be expected to have mastered, while N.E.W.T.s (A-levels) would cover specialized advanced studies.

As for Lily and Petunia's family, I believe they are/were all Muggles except for Lily. Petunia knows about the wizarding world because her sister was involved in it - Hermione's parents, who are Muggles, know about the wizarding world for the same reason.

abaici · #**160** 07-08-2003, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Beryana
I don't think that Petunia is a squib because JKR makes a big deal about mentioning Lily is a 'mudblood' when V refers to her, etc. I actually think that Lily and Petunia's parents are squibs which is why they would be VERY excited that at least one of their daughters got a letter from Hogwarts. It also explains how Petunia knows as much as she does about the Wizarding World. The definition of a muggle is a non-magic person - which would technically include squibs (though squib is used to distinguish the wizard parents. . . ).

Just another theory to throw out until we get books 6 and 7. . .

Sarah

Never thought about that! That's a great theory!

Beryana · #**161** 07-08-2003, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by aephi alum
As for Lily and Petunia's family, I believe they are/were all Muggles except for Lily. Petunia knows about the wizarding world because her sister was involved in it - Hermione's parents, who are Muggles, know about the wizarding world for the same reason.

That could be, however the Grangers know about the wizarding world because of Hermione and probably didn't even know it existed until Hermione got her letter. Petunia, on the other hand, knows information that Harry never told her and I sure would not be able to answer a question about what something is if I had only heard of it 20 years prior (Lily supposedly explaining Dementers to her sister or at least Petunia overhear a discussion of Dementers. . . ). Petunia answered the question before Harry ever did. . . Parents' disappointment (of only having one daughter be a witch) left to simmer over the years leads to one bitter person. . . . Throw some jealousy in there and you have enough bitterness to last years!

A friend and I were debating this theory earlier and I pulled out book 1 to look up what exactly Petunia said in her diatribe about her sister getting herself blown up and it mentions nothing about Lily being the first in the family. . . or the only for that matter (just her parents were proud of having a witch in the family. . . ).

Guess we'll see for sure in the next few years

We have a LOT of families to learn more about!

Sarah

DolphinChicaDDD · #**162** 07-08-2003, 11:40 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CutiePie2000
[B]

I actually quite like the Spanish covers and the German ones...they're sort of edgy (the German ones I mean).

Dang- some of those covers are SCARY!!!!!!!!!!!!

sherbertlemons · #**163** 07-08-2003, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Beryana
I don't think that Petunia is a squib because JKR makes a big deal about mentioning Lily is a 'mudblood' when V refers to her, etc. I actually think that Lily and Petunia's parents are squibs which is why they would be VERY excited that at least one of their daughters got a letter from Hogwarts. It also explains how Petunia knows as much as she does about the Wizarding World. The definition of a muggle is a non-magic person - which would technically include squibs (though squib is used to distinguish the wizard parents. . . ).

Just another theory to throw out until we get books 6 and 7. . .

Sarah

Exactly how do you define mudblood, though? Does the slur apply only to people completely muggleborn, or can it apply to halfbloods? The books haven't really demonstrated how precise it is.

aephi alum · #**164** 07-08-2003, 11:43 PM

Beryana, good point - thinking back, I don't think anything was ever said about Lily and Petunia's parents one way or the other. Maybe one parent was a wizard and the other was a Muggle? Evidently they were happily surprised that one of their daughters turned out to be a witch.

I sincerely doubt there were any wizarding folk in ol' Vernon's family.

KappaKittyCat · #**165** 07-08-2003, 11:47 PM

Yeah, I was wondering about that, too. I mean, Voldemort says that he and Harry are both half-bloods. Now, Voldemort's mother was a witch and his father was a Muggle. However, Lily and James are a witch and wizard, so technically, Harry is not a half-blood. He says so in the first book when Draco asks about his parents.

Maybe Voldemort & Co. don't count someone as a wizard unless he can trace his ancestry back all the way through generations of wizards. That point alone makes me think that Lily was the first witch in the Evans family-- if Petunia were a Squib, or even if their parents were Squibs and Lily somehow turned out magical, then Voldemort would consider Harry a full-blood.