Anti-War Protesters.... - Page 11

AlphaGamDiva · #1 03-28-2003, 02:29 PM

hold up hold up hold up hold up.....if it wasn't for the protestors of today we wouldn't be enjoying freedoms?????? i think you meant SOLDIERS. protestors aren't the ones fighting the enemies, they are attempting to fight the system, and i don't think anyone has truly gained anything yet from looking like they are dead in the street in NYC. that, to me, is truly horrifying b/c it wasn't too long ago when there were real dead bodies lying there. not saying ppl don't have the right to protest, but whatever happened to just holding signs in front of the white house SIDEWALK, not blocking traffic? i mean, c'mon. it's just as...um....effective as what they are doing now (meaning, it does nothing but draw attention and make our soldiers feel "half of america hates" them---i got an email from a guy on the constellation...that is exactly what he told me....that is what he thinks when he sees that....

), just not conflicting with other people's daily lives. everyone has the right to their opinion and their voice.....but don't act like animals. act responsible...you get more positive attention when you don't show your ass on tv....

monica

Greekgrrl · #2 03-28-2003, 03:33 PM

A couple of opinions/points in no particular order

1. I 100% support our military, every soldier -- but I think it's a nonsequitur to expect that supporting the troops and supporting their orders are the same thing.

2. The top ten list whatever thing is not by Dennis Miller (check Snopes.com, a common myth-debunking site with good credibility). That doesn't mean a lot, but people might have been less likely to accept it/pass it on without a famous name on it.

3. Food for thought, because I'm an admitted isolationist. Countries run by dictators or tyrannical regimes overthrow those leaders and fight for their own rights, throughout history. The countries of eastern Europe did it (Romania being famous for its brutal vicious leader Ceausescu). Countries in South America have done it. America did it. (Slight tangent, paraphrased from a quote I don't remember: The Vietnam war was a civil war, bound up in the cold war democratic vs. communist debate. What if the Spanish (to pick a random country) had come over during our Civil War, picked a side, and handed out canned foods and candy to the kids? )

I feel that Saddam Hussein has been proved to be a brutal, vicious, evil man. I pray that he will be stricken from the face of the Earth. But I question whether it is our responsibility alone to impose our timeline for that on the country and people of Iraq. (And maybe it's because I'm not keeping up, but I'm still not seeing the proof of the Al Qaeda - Sept. 11 - Iraq connection).

I will not march now, I will not stop traffic. I will make my opinion known firmly but quietly to those in power. I will support our troops. I will pray.

Greekgrrl

PS. If you must flame me, be gentle.

Honeykiss1974 · #3 03-28-2003, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlphaGamDiva
hold up hold up hold up hold up.....if it wasn't for the protestors of today we wouldn't be enjoying freedoms?????? i think you meant SOLDIERS. protestors aren't the ones fighting the enemies, they are attempting to fight the system, and i don't think anyone has truly gained anything yet from looking like they are dead in the street in NYC. that, to me, is truly horrifying b/c it wasn't too long ago when there were real dead bodies lying there. not saying ppl don't have the right to protest, but whatever happened to just holding signs in front of the white house SIDEWALK, not blocking traffic? i mean, c'mon. it's just as...um....effective as what they are doing now (meaning, it does nothing but draw attention and make our soldiers feel "half of america hates" them---i got an email from a guy on the constellation...that is exactly what he told me....that is what he thinks when he sees that....), just not conflicting with other people's daily lives. everyone has the right to their opinion and their voice.....but don't act like animals. act responsible...you get more positive attention when you don't show your ass on tv....

monica

Yes, dear...thanks to protestors many people in this country are able to enjoy the SAME freedoms as other people within this country (ever heard of civil rights movement).

Not suprised that went right by you.

And furthermore, there are and continue to be PEACEFUL protest throughout this country. Apparently, the actions of SOME in NYC all of a sudden represents EVERY protester.

AlphaGamDiva · #4 03-28-2003, 05:24 PM

ok...civil rights movements, ya got me. but when someone is in a thread that is generally talking about war related stuff, it probably will tend to slip "right by" me b/c that is a different topic...still a protest, yes, and even a war of sorts.... but not over foreign war related affairs...such as most of the ppl on here are talking about. thanks for being obnoxious about it, though....appreciate that b/c it was oh SO necessary.

and people involved with the civil rights movement also got on with their daily lives....compared to the protests of today, how many of them got down in the street to play possum? they took a non-violent stance on things....and therefore, people paid attention, and here we are today. and i know there are plently of peaceful protests and all that, but i think, again, on this particular thread, people were voicing concerns about the non-peaceful, over-obnoxious protests that make our soldiers think we hate them. or at least that's what i was getting at.....didn't mean for that to go right by you.....

monica
and if i am wrong with any of my civil rights stuff, go ahead and correct me.....but please refrain from referring to me as "dear"...i have yet to stoop to a level of any type of name calling, and would appreciate the same. thanks.

lifesaver · #5 03-28-2003, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by librasoul22
Donald Rumsfeld has said as of yet, they have found NO evidence of WMD and they have yet to fire a SCUD missile.

They have fired SCUD missles, several in fact, at Kuwait City, just without WMD warheads.

cash78mere · #6 03-28-2003, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlphaGamDiva
hold up hold up hold up hold up.....if it wasn't for the protestors of today we wouldn't be enjoying freedoms?????? i think you meant SOLDIERS. protestors aren't the ones fighting the enemies, they are attempting to fight the system, and i don't think anyone has truly gained anything yet from looking like they are dead in the street in NYC. that, to me, is truly horrifying b/c it wasn't too long ago when there were real dead bodies lying there. not saying ppl don't have the right to protest, but whatever happened to just holding signs in front of the white house SIDEWALK, not blocking traffic? i mean, c'mon. it's just as...um....effective as what they are doing now (meaning, it does nothing but draw attention and make our soldiers feel "half of america hates" them---i got an email from a guy on the constellation...that is exactly what he told me....that is what he thinks when he sees that....), just not conflicting with other people's daily lives. everyone has the right to their opinion and their voice.....but don't act like animals. act responsible...you get more positive attention when you don't show your ass on tv....

monica

AMEN!!! finally someone who knows what she's talking about!

Honeykiss1974 · #7 03-28-2003, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlphaGamDiva
ok...civil rights movements, ya got me. but when someone is in a thread that is generally talking about war related stuff, it probably will tend to slip "right by" me b/c that is a different topic...still a protest, yes, and even a war of sorts.... but not over foreign war related affairs...such as most of the ppl on here are talking about. thanks for being obnoxious about it, though....appreciate that b/c it was oh SO necessary.

and people involved with the civil rights movement also got on with their daily lives....compared to the protests of today, how many of them got down in the street to play possum? they took a non-violent stance on things....and therefore, people paid attention, and here we are today. and i know there are plently of peaceful protests and all that, but i think, again, on this particular thread, people were voicing concerns about the non-peaceful, over-obnoxious protests that make our soldiers think we hate them. or at least that's what i was getting at.....didn't mean for that to go right by you.....

monica
and if i am wrong with any of my civil rights stuff, go ahead and correct me.....but please refrain from referring to me as "dear"...i have yet to stoop to a level of any type of name calling, and would appreciate the same. thanks.

You posted and I answered. I won't apologize because it was not what you expected to hear. Call it (or me ) obnoxious or whatever you like, but the fact remains that most posts on here are making GENERAL and BROAD statements about protestors...PERIOD. Regardless, if the convo is geared toward international or domestic matters.

Oh, and don't get so sensitive on the whole civil rights deal. That was not the point.

Since I see now this thread is pretty much "Soap Box Central" its nothing to get in a huff about.

AlphaGamDiva · #8 03-28-2003, 07:50 PM

not getting huffy about the civ. rights comment, you brought it up, so i was just remarking that you were RIGHT in certain times of protest....i got huffy about being talked to like a complete moron b/c, to me, that makes someone lose their credibility when they resort to that kind of debate tactic. but whatever....i never asked for and would never expect an apology from you, don't worry.

it's just that you missed/over-looked where i was discussing a specific group of protestors who take to lying in the street like dead ppl so police officers have to come out there and CARRY them off so society can go on with its business. and really, it's more or less a discussion of what is on the news everyday than a "broad" and "general" statement about protestors....we all know neg. news is more often than not a longer segment than positive news...which is why support rallies are often no more than a slight mention. or at least that is what i have personally noticed.

m

Honeykiss1974 · #9 03-28-2003, 08:19 PM

I can see your point AlphaGamDiva. I think the gibberish of the very first post of this thread just has me too worked up.

Regarding the "die in" protest in NYC, sure, they could be like the majority of the US protestors and voice their opinions in peaceful, less shocking ways, but they know that it will not get them the media attention. No media attention, no message about their opinion of the war. This is apparent because everyday here in the US protest are happening, but they just aren't being reported.

Also, everyone has different levels as to what they think "peaceful" is. Earlier this week, there was a protest near the shop where I get my nails done. Nothing serious, no yelling, just protesters on the corner with signs asking people to honk. Well, two women walk in complaining about how they are causing trouble with what they are doing. I think to myself, how?

Anyway, as someone else stated, those protest may be costing NYC $900,000 a day (although I am not sure about what that amount entails - is it strictly that of law enforcement salaries or does it include the lost revenue of businesses) but it is WAY cheaper than the cost of this war and the proposed cost of this Homeland Security appropriations that our president is trying to get passed.

Cloud9 · #10 03-28-2003, 08:20 PM

Sooo, basically you think people should protest by quietly holding signs in the corner, because you don't want to be disturbed or shocked? That is the POINT of protesting!!!!

The civil rights movement was quiet? hahahaha, um, yeah, getting food dumped on your head in a restaurant, being hosed down and attacked by dogs in the streets, and being lynched, wow, that was a really boring movement wasn't it? And yet even after all that effort black people still have to deal with alot of unfair shit. So maybe that gives you an idea of why protesters really need to be grab the attention of the public for sustained periods of time. The point is, you get annoyed, disturbed, whatever, and hopefully if the cause is a good one(which it is in this case, I really want to see someone reply and say peace is not a good cause, that will really be amusing), that feeling of annoyance actually comes from an uncertainty about the situation, and over time the movement gains more and more supporters until the ultimate goal is achieved. Get it?

I leave you with a quote you may have heard recently,

"Fighting for peace is like f*cking for virginity."

RUgreek · #11 03-28-2003, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cloud9
Sooo, basically you think people should protest by quietly holding signs in the corner, because you don't want to be disturbed or shocked? That is the POINT of protesting!!!!

The civil rights movement was quiet? hahahaha, um, yeah, getting food dumped on your head in a restaurant, being hosed down and attacked by dogs in the streets, and being lynched, wow, that was a really boring movement wasn't it? And yet even after all that effort black people still have to deal with alot of unfair shit. So maybe that gives you an idea of why protesters really need to be grab the attention of the public for sustained periods of time. The point is, you get annoyed, disturbed, whatever, and hopefully if the cause is a good one(which it is in this case, I really want to see someone reply and say peace is not a good cause, that will really be amusing), that feeling of annoyance actually comes from an uncertainty about the situation, and over time the movement gains more and more supporters until the ultimate goal is achieved. Get it?

I leave you with a quote you may have heard recently,

"Fighting for peace is like f*cking for virginity."

Never heard the quote, but I'll study it and get back to you.

Peace is not a good cause ... just wrote it for the amusement.

Anyways, there is a difference between this anti-war protesting (this isn't peace protesting IMO) because people are protesting for no other purpose than to get attention and arrested.

Protesting in D.C. just logically seems like the only place where the attention from protesting would be most effective. So people can't get there after work on a friday, instead they protest at state government buildings or 5th ave. in NYC. We all want peace, no one is out there saying "Damn, I can't wait who we bomb next." Ok, maybe 3 people are thinking that, but I'm not one of them. So there will be peace once this war to liberate the iraqis is over. Why protest such a worthy cause? I'm tired of hearing hippies tell me this is a war for oil, damnit if it was then why isn't Kuwait the 51st state after the war in '91? We got the iraqis out and then left, no free oil fields as a bonus check.

Protest all you want, it isn't helping the cause, I doubt it will impress anyone except hollywood actors. You want a worthy protest, how about protesting the killing of american troops. I'll be there for that one. Oh well, I guess everyone has a different opinion on what they are protesting about, maybe that should be cleared up before the next march during rush hour....

- RUgreek

VirtuousErudite · #12 03-28-2003, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RUgreek
Never heard the quote, but I'll study it and get back to you.

Peace is not a good cause ... just wrote it for the amusement.

Anyways, there is a difference between this anti-war protesting (this isn't peace protesting IMO) because people are protesting for no other purpose than to get attention and arrested.

- RUgreek

I think its funny that you said that. Where do you people get your information from. Or are you making a broad, general, sweeping statement about an entire group of people (protesters) based upon the acts of a relative few in the spotlight on national news. I realize people in New York or Chicago have been in the spotlight with their protests but do you realize how many protests occur each and every day in this country? Do you realize how many people are involved in protests daily that cause absolutely NO disturbance at all, where absolutely NO ONE is arrested. In my city there have been protests going on weekly for the last few months and no one has been arrested related to the protests. It is absolutely ridiculous to say that people are protesting just to get attention and get arrested. I don't know how many protesters you actually KNOW, but I know many and EVERY protestor I know is a student or has a job or family and in no way want to get arrested for the fun of it. They have classes are responsiblities they have to get back to after they dedicate a few hours each week to a cause they feel is worthy. In fact one of the most active protestors I know is a lawyer and professor on campus with a family and I know for a fact he is not looking to "jump into the spotlight by being thrown in jail". Most of the protestors I know feel it is important to show that all American's are not behind this war, and it's not because they hate solidiers or are anti-American but they VALUE democracy and want to get the word out that this war in fact is not the right course of action in their opinion. Some may say, well we are in the war now so they should just sit quietly and go with the flow. For that reasoning I leave you with this. Jim Crow segregation was the status quo in the South for years, if the brave protetors of the Civil Rights movement had simply decided to go with the flow many African-American's would not have the basic rights that they have today.

VirtuousErudite · #13 03-28-2003, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlphaGamDiva

it's just that you missed/over-looked where i was discussing a specific group of protestors who take to lying in the street like dead ppl so police officers have to come out there and CARRY them off so society can go on with its business. and really, it's more or less a discussion of what is on the news everyday than a "broad" and "general" statement about protestors....we all know neg. news is more often than not a longer segment than positive news...which is why support rallies are often no more than a slight mention. or at least that is what i have personally noticed.

m

I'm going to say this and I'm not trying to be rude. But please don't let the television fool you. Hundreds of peaceful, non-invasive protests go on daily. The few you hear about on the news are not representative of the whole or even most of the protestors taking to the streets. I said this earlier and I will say this again. I am assuming because you are basing your opinions of protestors on the news that you don't know any personally. I personally know many protestors and they are all students (most of whom work and go to school), people with jobs, and families. I resent the implication that most people protesting are beatnicks and hippies with nothing better to do. They are just people devoted to a cause which they think is worthy, to inform the public that what you see may not be exactly the truth.

Also I am not sure if you are aware of this or not but the American news media has taken on somewhat of a bias as this war effort has begun. I personally believe that in an effort to portray an American society that is totally "gung-ho" about the war effort the media is attempting to portray protestors as abrasive, beatnicks with nothing better to do than lie in the streets. There will always be those in a group who take things too far and go beyond good taste. But these are often represent a minority. I encourage you to take the time to talk with a protestor, perhaps at your University and inform yourself about why they believe what they are doing is important instead of just basing your views off of what you see on television.

Think of it like this. Would you want someone who knows absolutely nothing about being in a sorority to watch a story on the news in which a sorority member beat a pledge and then label ALL sorority women as abusive, power hungry banchees. No, that would be silly and sweeping. And they could use the same excuse, "But I saw it on the news". Just like you don't want to be judged by the actions of a few. Don't judge an entire group of people made up of hundreds of thousands of American citizens based upon the actions of those in a few cities.

Just something to think about.

V

librasoul22 · #14 03-28-2003, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lifesaver
They have fired SCUD missles, several in fact, at Kuwait City, just without WMD warheads.

They have fired Silkworm missiles, not SCUD. Wolff Blitzer explicity asked Rumsfeld about SCUD missiles and Rumsfeld said NO.

RUgreek · #15 03-28-2003, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by VirtuousErudite
I think its funny that you said that. Where do you people get your information from. Or are you making a broad, general, sweeping statement about an entire group of people (protesters) based upon the acts of a relative few in the spotlight on national news. I realize people in New York or Chicago have been in the spotlight with their protests but do you realize how many protests occur each and every day in this country? Do you realize how many people are involved in protests daily that cause absolutely NO disturbance at all, where absolutely NO ONE is arrested. In my city there have been protests going on weekly for the last few months and no one has been arrested related to the protests. It is absolutely ridiculous to say that people are protesting just to get attention and get arrested. I don't know how many protesters you actually KNOW, but I know many and EVERY protestor I know is a student or has a job or family and in no way want to get arrested for the fun of it. They have classes are responsiblities they have to get back to after they dedicate a few hours each week to a cause they feel is worthy. In fact one of the most active protestors I know is a lawyer and professor on campus with a family and I know for a fact he is not looking to "jump into the spotlight by being thrown in jail". Most of the protestors I know feel it is important to show that all American's are not behind this war, and it's not because they hate solidiers or are anti-American but they VALUE democracy and want to get the word out that this war in fact is not the right course of action in their opinion. Some may say, well we are in the war now so they should just sit quietly and go with the flow. For that reasoning I leave you with this. Jim Crow segregation was the status quo in the South for years, if the brave protetors of the Civil Rights movement had simply decided to go with the flow many African-American's would not have the basic rights that they have today.

Ok, this is just getting funny now. First off, everyone in my life has protesting something at one time or another, actively or by petitions, including myself. I guess I don't have a cool membership card in the National Protestor's Club, but I have proetsted when appropriate.

Civil rights protesting has nothing to do with this anti-war protest. I'm sorry, but it is different, don't clump them together just because they both involve protesting. The civil rights movement took place in America, all over, so that was the place to protest. Civil rights were being violated by certain states and their governments, those were the people to protest. NO state government has any power or control over the conflict in Iraq, so why complain and protest to them? The federal government is the group that should be protested, not the lives of people trying to get to and from work in a busy city during the week. Do it on your own time if you want to make a statement; your rights to assembly and free speech are great, but what about my rights? Do I deserve to suffer from the consequences of a futile demonstration?

So go ahead, keep doing it even though its meaningless and hurts the feelings of our troops in the Gulf. They don't care if you're still supporting them; if you're protesting the war they are disappointed with you.

- RUgreek