Black/Multiracial women in "White" sororities

[lovelyivy84]

Originally posted by KnowledgeEternal:

Maybe its just me, but you are definately seeing some ish that I am not. WHen did she say anything about justification? She said something about a flier talking about minorities in HWGLO's but not one mention of BGLOs, except to mention the ones she has come in contact with.

Please show me what is upsetting you so much because I am not seeing it.

-ONE-

She said:

"Oh and Zchi4Life, trust me I know why such frats (African AM, Latino/a etc) are in existance, could it be segregation? "

That offended me. We exist because we serve our communities at this point. We are NOT some sort of afterthought, or second best org for those who are not allowed into NPC orgs. That was what got me.

[MIDWESTDIVA]

Originally posted by Eclipse:
Midwestdiva,
Can you tell me a little bit about your research that says BGLOs as an entity discriminated on the basis of skin color or did the paper bag test back in the day? I am really looking for a little more than antidotal evidence, if you can. The reason I ask is because I am a graduate of Spelman College and as a HS student when I would tell (some) people that I wanted to go to Spelman they would say I wasn't light enough or that I didn't have long hair and that Spelman was founded for the illegitmate daughters of wealthy white men When I got to Spelman I found out that that couldn't be farther from the truth. According to pictures in the campus archives, the first class at Spelman had several women with very pronounced African features and hair and some other women on the more medium brown scale. As a whole, the group did not fit that mold.

Don't get me wrong, I know that there were (still are for that matter!) organizations/entities that used this test, if only by visual inspection. I remember going to Savannah on a Girl Scout trip and visiting a church that had a piece of wood nailed to a pedestal in the vestibule. According to the tour guide, if you were darker than the piece of wood, then you could not come in!!

BTW...I agree with you that it is unreasonable to always hold institutions responsible for something that was national policy until about 50 years ago. If we did this consistently there are a whole lotta places that we (as Black folks) would not be living, working or shopping!! And I bet you, that very few people would be willing to give up their jobs, nice suburban homes and weekly visits to the mall on "they useta not let us in here!"

Eclipse,

I only know what I have been told by Black Greeks. Basically what I have been told is it did happen, it doesn't happen anymore, and everyone else was doing it too. I remember reading similar comments in the "Oprah" thread. I have never questioned the validity of this answer since Greeks know so much about their own history. It would be nice if this information was available in written form, but I don't think this is the kind of thing you would read about in "Through The Years" or "In Search of Sisterhood". I haven't read either of these books, so I may be wrong. (I'm not singling out these 2 organizations, I just know the names of their books off the top of my head).

I have never heard that Spelman was a school for the illegitimate daughters of White men. But I have read time and time again on GC that in the early 1900s, the only Blacks that could afford post-secondary education were wealthy Blacks who just happened to also be light-skinned. If you say that was not the case at Spelman, I have to wonder why that was the case at Howard?

[RedHotChiO]

Being one of the few minorities in my chapter I am well aware that I am always going to be pegged as "the asian chi-o." It's a decision that I made though. It's weird, because I certainly don't feel the same pressure that a black girl would about joining a BGLO since Asian sororities are not all that common. I think that I could never feel comfortable in an asian sorority anyways. I grew up in a predominantly white town in Louisiana. Racism, I grew up with it. Somehow though, I feel that putting myself in these diverse situations only makes me a better person. Obviously, my childhood would have been a lot easier if I lived in a asian neighborhood and only talked to asian people. In reality though, the world doesn't look like that. The world is not all black and all white. Some of my asian friends feel sorry that I go to predominantly white school and that I don't get to hang out with asians, but my school is probably a pretty fair representation of the way America looks today.
At the same time, I have been thinking about recruitment lately. I am about to go through my first recruitment period this year, and I was thinking about how one of my black sisters wanted to get more black girls in our sorority. Recruitment should not just be about getting numbers or having a "toekn black girl".

RedHotChiO

[This message has been edited by RedHotChiO (edited May 28, 2001).]

[SSS1365]

While there aren't many minorities in the NPC organizations on my campus, it's not unheard of and it's not frowned upon at all! I myself am half Puerto Rican (but look almost completely Hispanic). My chapter also has 2 Asian girls and one African American girl (to be P.C.). No one is treated any differently from anyone else, and we all get along really well!

[NEUsweetie]

Joining a chapter is about going to the organization you feel the most comfortable with, not the ones who have the same heritage or sking tone. My chapter is very diveres and we like it that way! We are not a "white" sorority, I actually find that term insulting!
Join the chapter because you identify with them, not because they look like you.
YITS!

[NEUsweetie]

Joining a chapter is about going to the organization you feel the most comfortable with, not the ones who have the same heritage or sking tone. My chapter is very diverse and we like it that way! We are not a "white" sorority, I actually find that term insulting!
Join the chapter because you identify with them, not because they look like you.
YITS!

[NEUsweetie]

Joining a chapter is about going to the organization you feel the most comfortable with, not the ones who have the same heritage or skin tone. My chapter is very diverse and we like it that way! We are not a "white" sorority, I actually find that term insulting!
Join the chapter because you identify with them, not because they look like you.
YITS!

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by MIDWESTDIVA:
Eclipse,

I only know what I have been told by Black Greeks. Basically what I have been told is it did happen, it doesn't happen anymore, and everyone else was doing it too. I remember reading similar comments in the "Oprah" thread. I have never questioned the validity of this answer since Greeks know so much about their own history. It would be nice if this information was available in written form, but I don't think this is the kind of thing you would read about in "Through The Years" or "In Search of Sisterhood". I haven't read either of these books, so I may be wrong. (I'm not singling out these 2 organizations, I just know the names of their books off the top of my head).

I have never heard that Spelman was a school for the illegitimate daughters of White men. But I have read time and time again on GC that in the early 1900s, the only Blacks that could afford post-secondary education were wealthy Blacks who just happened to also be light-skinned. If you say that was not the case at Spelman, I have to wonder why that was the case at Howard?

Midwestdiva,

I'm not sure why that was (if it was) the case at Howard, I just know that from my own personal research that there were several dark skinned black women in the first graduating classes at Spelman and that, to my knowledge, there has never been a stipulation that applicants sent in pictures or come in for an interview before they are accepted. That said to me that there were no "paper bag tests" there. Now, talking about who could afford higher education and who was excluded because of their skin color are totally different things...

[KDMeghan]

This is a topic that is very close to my heart. I am an African-American that is a VERY proud member of a "white" sorority. I didn't chose Kappa Delta because they were white, I chose Kappa Delta because they believed the same things that I did. There morals and ideas are along my lines. My Kappa Delta sisters are the best friends that I have. My Big Sister is also African-American and we are accepted for who we are not for what our skin color is. If you find an organization that you like, it should not matter if it is "black" or "white" what should matter is how you feel about that organiations, purpose and meaning.

------------------
All my KD love n AOT, Meghan

[MIDWESTDIVA]

Originally posted by Eclipse:
Midwestdiva,

I'm not sure why that was (if it was) the case at Howard, I just know that from my own personal research that there were several dark skinned black women in the first graduating classes at Spelman and that, to my knowledge, there has never been a stipulation that applicants sent in pictures or come in for an interview before they are accepted. That said to me that there were no "paper bag tests" there. Now, talking about who could afford higher education and who was excluded because of their skin color are totally different things...

I have seen it written here on GC time and time again that only the wealthiest Blacks could afford post secondary education. And these same wealthy Blacks just happened to be light-skinned. If you have seen pictures that prove otherwise, then the preceding statement must be false.

In your research, did you happen to see pictures of the first sorority pledge classes at Spelman?

[Tom Earp]

I will post this again, I have a African-American Brother, and the only one who made it through Associate Membership is African-American. I do not care if he is "Black" his blood is red and from now on His Color Is Purple, Green and Gold! He is My Brother! Your Heart is with your Fellow Brothers because you have been down the same road maybe not together but still the same road!

------------------
Tom Earp LX Z#1
Pittsburg State U. (Kansas)

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by MIDWESTDIVA:
I have seen it written here on GC time and time again that only the wealthiest Blacks could afford post secondary education. And these same wealthy Blacks just happened to be light-skinned. If you have seen pictures that prove otherwise, then the preceding statement must be false.

In your research, did you happen to see pictures of the first sorority pledge classes at Spelman?

Sororities were not allowed at Spelman until the mid 70s, so finding pictures of the first pledge classes would not be that hard. I don't have any information about the wealth or lack there of, of Spelman students in the late 1800s, but I do know that these women were older than "normal" school age and were less than 20 years out of slavery. "Wealth" for any former slave at that time was probably non existant.

I see you are quoting greekchatters as "proof" of the status of things. No offense to my fellow greekchatters, but I would strongly suggest, that if this is something that is truly of interest to you, you do your own independant research.

[MIDWESTDIVA]

Originally posted by Eclipse:
Sororities were not allowed at Spelman until the mid 70s, so finding pictures of the first pledge classes would not be that hard. I don't have any information about the wealth or lack there of, of Spelman students in the late 1800s, but I do know that these women were older than "normal" school age and were less than 20 years out of slavery. "Wealth" for any former slave at that time was probably non existant.

I see you are quoting greekchatters as "proof" of the status of things. No offense to my fellow greekchatters, but I would strongly suggest, that if this is something that is truly of interest to you, you do your own independant research.

Paper bag testing really doesn't concern me enough to do any formal research. My relatives that pledged in the late sixties and early seventies say that it did happen and that is proof enough for me. I brought it up to make a point. What really concerns me is the amount of finger pointing that takes place on Greekchat. All of the organizations have excluded some people they probably shouldn't have and they still are. They don't have to explain their reasons for doing so. Why? Because membership has its privileges, or so I've heard. Membership can be denied for any reason, or so I've heard. Any reason can and does include, not being a member of the "right" race, skin color being too dark, etc.

I have seen chapters of certain organizations where all the members are redbone with long hair. Do you think this is a coincidence? Do you think the members represent the look of the student body at large? Do you think that all the women that showed up at rush/tea/informational just happened to all look the same? That all the dark-skinned women just decided to stay home that day? I don't. The fact is, there are some members in ALL organizations doing some dirt. That's why GLOs continue to bring negative media attention upon themselves. If it's not turning nappy headed girls away from debutante balls, it's hazing incidents. Even "our" media has little positive to say about BGLOs. What did IotaNet say about BGLOs not having the panache they once did?

I know this is falling on deaf ears, so I'm finished.

[SH80]

Originally posted by MIDWESTDIVA:
Paper bag testing really doesn't concern me enough to do any formal research. My relatives that pledged in the late sixties and early seventies say that it did happen and that is proof enough for me. I brought it up to make a point. What really concerns me is the amount of finger pointing that takes place on Greekchat. All of the organizations have excluded some people they probably shouldn't have and they still are. They don't have to explain their reasons for doing so. Why? Because membership has its privileges, or so I've heard. Membership can be denied for any reason, or so I've heard. Any reason can and does include, not being a member of the "right" race, skin color being too dark, etc.

I have seen chapters of certain organizations where all the members are redbone with long hair. Do you think this is a coincidence? Do you think the members represent the look of the student body at large? Do you think that all the women that showed up at rush/tea/informational just happened to all look the same? That all the dark-skinned women just decided to stay home that day? I don't. The fact is, there are some members in ALL organizations doing some dirt. That's why GLOs continue to bring negative media attention upon themselves. If it's not turning nappy headed girls away from debutante balls, it's hazing incidents. Even "our" media has little positive to say about BGLOs. What did IotaNet say about BGLOs not having the panache they once did?

I know this is falling on deaf ears, so I'm finished.

Why would a black person join a "WGLO" or vice versa? The answer is simple, people join organizations and hang around people that they can relate to, regardless of color. For example, if a black person grew up in a white neighborhood or vice versa.