School Shooting Newtown CT

[badgeguy]

"Those who do not learn from the past, are doomed to repeat it!"

Ive researched this and know its not the exact quote from George Santanya, but it definitely fits this situation.

Regardsless of the laws, and creator given rights, evil is evil and the biggest question no one had been able to answer yet is Why? Why did this person at this time decide to do what they did?

The bad part is that in this case we will never know for sure as the guy killed himself and so anything the investigators find is purely conjecture, and speculative.

[I Phi 1963]

I don't even know why this discussion went past 10 posts. Dude is a piece of shit who shot up some kids. Unfortunately, this dumb shit will happen again, probably in less than a year. Are they going to change the gun laws? No, because there is too much money involved, and if they did, all that would do is make it more difficult for folks like you and me who want to protect their cribs, to get the guns. The criminals are going to get the guns regardless. What they need to do is make the laws (as far as punishment goes) more harsh. Fuck a mental institution, start putting mofos out of their misery.

[TonyB06]

[QUOTE=badgeguy;2194135Regardsless of the laws, and creator given rights, evil is evil and the biggest question no one had been able to answer yet is Why? Why did this person at this time decide to do what they did?

The bad part is that in this case we will never know for sure as the guy killed himself and so anything the investigators find is purely conjecture, and speculative.[/QUOTE]

You're right. The closest we can get is the sad acceptance that at some time we will observe the raw face of evil.

I've read the thread and agree that more has to be done -- we've seen four of these types of atrocites in 2012 alone. That's enough of a pattern for me.

The problem is probably more on the mental health side, but it's the guns that escalate the carnage.

So what to do? Personally, I don't think assault-style weapons should be allowed outside the military.

-renew assault weapons ban
-close gun show loopholes
-limit/eliminate high capacity automatic clips.

let's start with that.

[adpimiz]

Originally Posted by TonyB06

You're right. The closest we can get is the sad acceptance that at some time we will observe the raw face of evil.

I've read the thread and agree that more has to be done -- we've seen four of these types of atrocites in 2012 alone. That's enough of a pattern for me.

The problem is probably more on the mental health side, but it's the guns that escalate the carnage.

So what to do? Personally, I don't think assault-style weapons should be allowed outside the military.

-renew assault weapons ban
-close gun show loopholes
-limit/eliminate high capacity automatic clips.

let's start with that.

I'm not saying I disagree, but what about criminals obtaining weapons on the black market? You can't stop that.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Kevin, the problem with your statistics is that they only take into account school violence, but most of the mass shootings this year and last have not been at schools but at malls, homes, places of worship and other non-school related locals.

This just means that Kevin, like the media, is blowing those incidents off because they didn't involve a large number of sweet innocent children, just grimy old everyday grownups, and are therefore unimportant.

Thank you for giving me a good jumping off point for me to vent what is really chapping my hide about the coverage of this story. The references to "20 angels" are particularly unfeeling and offensive to the friends and family of the 6 adults that were killed.

[TonyB06]

Originally Posted by adpimiz

I'm not saying I disagree, but what about criminals obtaining weapons on the black market? You can't stop that.

I agree with you. Law enforcement will always have to be on the front lines of this multi-faceted attack.

But logic suggests that some % of black market acquisitions were originally legally purchased (and later stolen, lost, etc.). If we can find ways lessen the numbers of these types of weapons that exist, we lessen the numbers that fall into black market circulation/use.

[wotmac]

there still isn't really a viable statistic for these kinds of incidents, since they are so rare. But this recent trend of rampages, especially by persons that appeared to have had mental disturbances is really alarming. In the wake of this horrible tragedy, I sure hope mental health finally comes to the forefront of public discussion, and something is done to help those who need help in a better way than what we have, which isn't much. I think it's even more important than gun control, although there should be some amends there as well

[Psi U MC Vito]

As has been said before though, an open discussion is not going to happen because people are too protective of their sacred cows. We don't trust teachers enough to let them form unions, yet we want them armed? Really?

[knight_shadow]

Who would be paying for the teachers' guns and licenses? If a teacher is in an "armed" school, can s/he opt out? Can a parent opt out of his/her child being in an "armed" classroom?

#RandomThoughts

[Psi U MC Vito]

What I think would be a good possible solution would be for there to be a member of the local law enforcement at all schools, and for that matter other soft targets like movie theathers. Of course that brings concerns of a police state, so *shrugs*

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by TonyB06

<snip>

The problem is probably more on the mental health side, but it's the guns that escalate the carnage.

So what to do? Personally, I don't think assault-style weapons should be allowed outside the military.

-renew assault weapons ban
-close gun show loopholes
-limit/eliminate high capacity automatic clips.

let's start with that.

The "assault" weapon differs from a hunting rifle in looks only. Add a pistol grip to make the firearm easier to control (accuracy is not good?) or a carbon-fiber black stock instead of old-growth walnut, and there you have it. In fact, the "assault" weapon designated AR-15 is illegal for hunting in my state - because it's not considered powerful enough.

There is no such thing as a gun show loophole. NOTHING is legal at a gun show that is not legal in my living room. And I'll be happy to take you to gun shows where I can show you the "unlicensed" dealers. Only problem is, "unlicensed dealers" are NOT selling firearms.

Automatic weapons are already highly regulated. They require additional permissions from law-enforcement agencies, a tax stamp, and permission from BATFE. Therefore, the "clips" you refer to are useless without the highly regulated firearm to go with it.

So while I appreciate that you're trying to put forth solutions, in fact, none of these are solutions.

[CutiePie2000]

Question for the Americans with elementary school age kids in your lives (as I live in Canada and I haven't been inside an elementary school in a while)

I've read on some news stories that the gunman "broke into" the school; I'm not sure that I understand "broke into".

Every elementary school that I know of (i.e. here in Canada), yes, visitors have to "report" to the office, but unless the office is "right there" at the front entrance, someone could stroll into the unlocked front entrance & easily bypass the office and wander around the place until someone inquired, "May I help you?"

Are American elementary schools generally kept "locked"? (In particular, the front entrance?)

Please explain / advise.

[glittergal1985]

In many towns around me, school doors are automatically locked once the bell rings for classes to begin. I believe in the case of Sandy Hook, the gunman shot his way through the glass of the locked front doors of the school building in order to enter.

[AXOmom]

Been a while since I've stopped by, but since I teach at an elementary school (K-8 charter) I've been reading most of the discussions on this topic in various forums I frequent.

CutiePie2000 - I can only speak for the schools where I've taught, had children attend, or visited - none were locked (well except for the juvenile detention facility where I taught - it obviously was and MAYBE an alternative school where I taught - I can't remember for sure on it). You could walk into any of them and while you were supposed to check into the office - at the bigger schools (primarily high schools) this rarely happened.

After several school shootings in the past (as a sad aside - I graudated from Columbine and student taught at Thurston HS), most schools talked about heightened security and for a while many did lock up and get stricter about checking in at the office, issuing visitor passes etc., but as with most things like this-as time goes by and people calm down - they get sloppy. Sandy Hook actually was locked and you had to show ID and buzz to get in - several stations noted this was unusual particularly for that area. This is why they said he broke in.

This week we started locking down our school again which has presented some challenges with our aftercare program which I also oversee. It's worth it to feel somewhat secure; it's also led to a lot of questions from the kids who are, of course, wondering about why we are suddenly changing procedures. They notice any little change in their routine.


**** A little off the subject but a point of clarification- A poster mentioned why trust teachers with guns if they don't trust us to unionize - Not that I want a gun, but we do, in fact, have unions in every state that I'm aware of and a strong national union.

[AlphaFrog]

My children's elementary school is not locked, and when.I stopped in on Wednesday, it was business as usual.