Arizona governor signs immigration bill

[PiKA2001]

I've read the law Waxoff but have you? According to AZ a legit drivers license will do http://www.arizonaguide.com/arizona-...n-requirements

As for your point 2, residents can sue local governments/entities that refuse to follow the new law, but the monies collected from those lawsuits go straight to the AZ Dept of public safety, so I don't exactly see how that phukkkks the state.

Point 3- yes profiling is illegal, and the bill addresses that no one can be questioned based solely on race, and probable cause is needed for any arrest to be made. Unless it's proven otherwise, I'm going to give the AZ public safety officers the benefit of the doubt that they will not racially profile.

You've yet to hit the one aspect of the law that I find unnecessary and to be honest, kind of heartless.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

I've read the law Waxoff but have you? According to AZ a legit drivers license will do http://www.arizonaguide.com/arizona-...n-requirements

Actually : 1. A valid Arizona driver license.
2. A valid tribal enrollment card or other form of tribal identification.
3. A valid Arizona non-operating identification license.
4. Any valid United States federal, state or local government issued identification, provided the entity requires proof of legal presence in the United States before issuance*.

Not all states check immigration status when providing drivers licenses or ID cards. There are assorted reasons for this. And technically, legal citizens cannot be required to produce carry proof of citizenship *loophole the size of Texas*

As for your point 2, residents can sue local governments/entities that refuse to follow the new law, but the monies collected from those lawsuits go straight to the AZ Dept of public safety, so I don't exactly see how that phukkkks the state.

Lawyers cost money.

Point 3- yes profiling is illegal, and the bill addresses that no one can be questioned based solely on race, and probable cause is needed for any arrest to be made. Unless it's proven otherwise, I'm going to give the AZ public safety officers the benefit of the doubt that they will not racially profile.

Except it's been shown that police officers racially profile during traffic stops and in other situations. The best line the lawmakers have come up with on how they'll know without profiling is "well.. by how they dress." Which is silliness.

You've yet to hit the one aspect of the law that I find unnecessary and to be honest, kind of heartless.

Your opinion of course. I agree with the police departments that said this will limit their ability to fight other crime because people will not come forward to talk to them. Police sometimes ignore that they're getting information from a prostitute to solve or investigate another crime. They won't be 'allowed' to ignore a suspected illegal immigrant.

I think the police in those areas will end up arguing that they have no idea what an illegal immigrant looks like.

I will also be "amused" the first time they arrest a Puerto Rican (because I think it will happen) and they get sued for violating a citizen's rights.

[PiKA2001]

Well, unless the prostitute is loitering or is in the act she's not doing anything illegal. According to Federal law and now SB 1070 an illegal immigrant is ALWAYS breaking the law as long as they are present in the U.S. Undocumented.

It will suck for law enforcement if they encounter illegals regularly during the course of their investigations, and I'd love to hear from one, like a real one, and what they really think about this. I'm sure police know who and where the illegals are and hangout in their respected localities.

I don't anticipate any Puerto Ricans to be arrested in AZ, maybe a Northern state with similar laws might think that they are Mexican or South American, but everyone living in an area with a large Latino population should recognize the difference.

I'm still on the fence when it comes to the idea of sanctuary cities, it seems that for every one person who says that it helps foster a better relationship between law enforcement and immigrants, there's another saying it doesn't do squat to help build safer communities.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Well, unless the prostitute is loitering or is in the act she's not doing anything illegal. According to Federal law and now SB 1070 an illegal immigrant is ALWAYS breaking the law as long as they are present in the U.S. Undocumented.

It will suck for law enforcement if they encounter illegals regularly during the course of their investigations, and I'd love to hear from one, like a real one, and what they really think about this. I'm sure police know who and where the illegals are and hangout in their respected localities.

I don't anticipate any Puerto Ricans to be arrested in AZ, maybe a Northern state with similar laws might think that they are Mexican or South American, but everyone living in an area with a large Latino population should recognize the difference.

I'm still on the fence when it comes to the idea of sanctuary cities, it seems that for every one person who says that it helps foster a better relationship between law enforcement and immigrants, there's another saying it doesn't do squat to help build safer communities.

I don't know about talking to one in person, but there are numerous articles out there that quote police officers who talk about what they think about the issue if you want to hear what they think.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I don't know about talking to one in person, but there are numerous articles out there that quote police officers who talk about what they think about the issue if you want to hear what they think.

Im talking off the record with a regular Joe, a good chunk of the published quotes are from Police Chiefs, supervisors, union leaders and public affairs spokesmen.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Im talking off the record with a regular Joe, a good chunk of the published quotes are from Police Chiefs, supervisors, union leaders and public affairs spokesmen.

Mostly because that's who's allowed to talk to the press. But their arguments are likely similar. You could always seek them out yourself! I'm sure there's a police message board or two out there

[epchick]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

I don't anticipate any Puerto Ricans to be arrested in AZ, maybe a Northern state with similar laws might think that they are Mexican or South American, but everyone living in an area with a large Latino population should recognize the difference.

How can you tell the difference between a Puerto Rican vs a Mexican vs any other "Latino?" Just because someone might live in an area with a large Latino population doesn't give you "Latinodar" were you just walk up to someone and know their ethnicity. If some people can't even distinguish between Black vs Hispanic, or White vs Hispanic, what makes you think they can distinguish between the different Latino ethnicities. I sure can't.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by epchick

How can you tell the difference between a Puerto Rican vs a Mexican vs any other "Latino?" Just because someone might live in an area with a large Latino population doesn't give you "Latinodar" were you just walk up to someone and know their ethnicity. If some people can't even distinguish between Black vs Hispanic, or White vs Hispanic, what makes you think they can distinguish between the different Latino ethnicities. I sure can't.

I haven't been reading the posts and following the discussion but just want to say:

I agree with the bolded, but it isn't necessarily the same thing as what he's talking about. Hispanics from various countries always think that I'm Hispanic to which I respond with "I'm not, but you think I am because Black and Hispanic are not mutually exclusive." People would have to observe cultural and ethnic identifying markers to attempt to distinguish between Black American and Black Hispanic.

A component of race and ethnicity (which includes whether someone is Puerto Rican, Mexican, Brazilian, etc.) is identifiability. Identifiability means there are physical and cultural features that we attribute to particular races and ethnicities. That doesn't mean that people can identify members of racial and ethnicities with 100% accuracy. It means that people can identify members of different ethnicities (nationalities and cultures) sometimes or more often than not particularly in racially heterogenous areas with less racial segregation (almost everywhere in the world is racially and ethnically segregated, it's just a matter of less segregation). For instance, if you live in an area with a visible Mexican population, you will likely notice when someone doesn't "seem" Mexican. Whether or not they are Mexican can be determined through basic social interaction.

/back to not knowing what the hell you all are talking about

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by epchick

How can you tell the difference between a Puerto Rican vs a Mexican vs any other "Latino?" Just because someone might live in an area with a large Latino population doesn't give you "Latinodar" were you just walk up to someone and know their ethnicity. If some people can't even distinguish between Black vs Hispanic, or White vs Hispanic, what makes you think they can distinguish between the different Latino ethnicities. I sure can't.

Latinodar?? I was speaking in terms of accent/dialect differences between Puerto Ricans and Mexicans, not in terms of appearance.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Latinodar?? I was speaking in terms of accent/dialect differences between Puerto Ricans and Mexicans, not in terms of appearance.

Let's hope they keep talking.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Let's hope they keep talking.

Oh trust me, If you even hint that you think a person of PR descent is Mexican ( or vice versa) they will set your ass straight.

[WaxOff]

The law might be written for Local law Enforcement (the Police) to accept a Driver's license, but they aren't enough according to ICE officials in the case of this truck driver.

Truck Driver Arrested Outside Phoenix, Forced to Show Birth Certificate

The man was born in Fresno, CA. He was stopped at a weigh station and asked for his ID. He produced his CDL and they rejected it. They wanted his birth certificate, which his wife had to go home to get and deliver. They try to hide behind saying he didn't have the proper paperwork to have his truck inspected, but why is it that it was only his birth certificate they were after?

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by WaxOff

The law might be written for Local law Enforcement (the Police) to accept a Driver's license, but they aren't enough according to ICE officials in the case of this truck driver.

Truck Driver Arrested Outside Phoenix, Forced to Show Birth Certificate

The man was born in Fresno, CA. He was stopped at a weigh station and asked for his ID. He produced his CDL and they rejected it. They wanted his birth certificate, which his wife had to go home to get and deliver. They try to hide behind saying he didn't have the proper paperwork to have his truck inspected, but why is it that it was only his birth certificate they were after?

I don't know why ICE was harassing this guy nor do I really care but you hit the sweet spot if you think immigration should be inforced by the Feds and Feds only. I don't think that the bill itself is terrible or fatally flawed but The fact that it had to be written in the first place reflects poorly on the Feds ability to enforce it's own immigration laws.

[christiangirl]

Lol at Latinodar.

What is ICE?

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

Lol at Latinodar.

What is ICE?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ICE
Immigrations and Customs Enforcement.