How protective are you of your letters?

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by jubilance1922
If XYZ is cool with "idolatry" as you call it, then what they do shouldn't matter to you.

I'll remember that (and remind you of the above quote) the next time I get admonished/hand cut off/public hanging for using an XYZ pencil to write a note, or drinking from an ABC coffee mug.

[jubilance1922]

Originally posted by Rain Man
I'll remember that (and remind you of the above quote) the next time I get admonished/hand cut off/public hanging for using an XYZ pencil to write a note, or drinking from an ABC coffee mug.

I can only speak for myself, and I wouldn't get on you for that. Its up to each individual org to say what is appropriate. So if XYZ says non-members can't use pens, then that member of XYZ shouldn't give you that pen to write with. That's different from a ABC buying a XYZ mug specifically for their own use.

[SurfinDBeach]

Tekes dont let their pledges wear the letters of TKE until theyre initiated... and the new guys know that very well...

If there is to be a mark upon them, they add an extra E to TKE... Therefore, pledges refer to TKE as TEKE on their personal clothing or other items... They can remove the extra E at initiation...

Only the big sis/little sis, wives, sometimes serious girlfriends wear letters - otherwise, NO OTHER MAN but a Teke...

As far as using a pen, I dont see whats wrong with that... A pens a pen... youre not actually wearing anything...

I wouldnt want another fraternity man to drive my truck, which has a BIG Tau Kappa Epsilon and TKE decal with flames... but if it were smaller, it wouldnt be a big deal...

I better not see someone wearing letters in any way though... not even the coat of arms!!!!

[Lady Pi Phi]

Don't worry about letters that are not your own. Follow whatever protocol your org. has set out, but forget what other orgs. are doing.

[ejbiff]

I would never let a friend or any non-member borrow any of my sorority shirts, unless she was in the sorority too. There have been some people who have left our chapter (not alumni) that STILL where their sorority apparel, which really makes me mad. I don't think you have any right to wear my letters if you're not in my sorority. If you're not in the sorority, why would you want to wear clothes that represent them or if you don't know what the letters mean or such?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally posted by Rain Man
Simply put, Jubilance1922 stated that (paraphrased) one man's idolatry is another man's protocol, and protocol trumps all, including what may be perceived as idolatry. Thus, whether or not anyone explicitly states that their protocol is this extreme is irrelevant.

I read Jubilance's post. It is relevant for the reason I stated in my post.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
forget what other orgs. are doing.

This message board would not exist if we did that.

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by jubilance1922
I can only speak for myself, and I wouldn't get on you for that. Its up to each individual org to say what is appropriate.

My point exactly, and THAT is where the idolatry comes into play, where one places a higher value of the letters over the value of the item itself. I mean, I can't use a 15 cent disposable pen or a 7 cent pencil or a 2 dollar coffee mug because it has a certain org's letters on it? Take away the letters, and it would be a plain old pencil/pen or coffee mug. That is the ridiculousness I am hearing from some members and that is why I call it idolatry.

So if XYZ says non-members can't use pens, then that member of XYZ shouldn't give you that pen to write with. That's different from a ABC buying a XYZ mug specifically for their own use.

Perhaps XYZ should exercise some conventional wisdom and use some discretion by stating as protocol that letters/sheild are not to be used on such items as pencils, pens, mugs, and umbrellas. In other words, use them on items that non-members will be unlikely to have access to for their own use. That protects your letters in a major way and increases assurance that non-members will not use it for their own purposes.

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by DSTCHAOS
I read Jubilance's post. It is relevant for the reason I stated in my post.

The problem is, you and Jubilance are coming from two different paradigms in relation to the points you are trying to make. My response was solely directed at Jubilance's post and paradigm of thought. No more, no less.

Therefore, focusing solely on Jubilance's frame of mind, I read her post as her bringing up the issue of protocol strictly from a hypothetical standpoint, not an actual standpoint, as you are trying to allude to. In light of that, I felt that whether or not someone explicitly stating their particular org's protocol as extreme as irrelevant.

If you have a point you are trying to make, please do so directly, as I am not understanding what you are getting at. If you are trying to allude to individual members taking protocol to extremes, I understand that and I agree with you. But I don't see what this has to do with whether or not anyone stating that their national protocol having such extreme measures.

Hope this helps.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally posted by Rain Man
My response was solely directed at Jubilance's post and paradigm of thought.

I know. I see you do not really understand my comment to you.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally posted by Rain Man
But I don't see what this has to do with whether or not anyone stating that their national protocol having such extreme measures.

I know you don't. It's okay.

ETA: I wasn't correcting your post to Jubilance so no need to provide a summary of what she posted and what you posted. I am just stating that it seems as though the people posting in this thread aren't admitted extremists. So, we all agree that extreme is bad but abiding by organization protocol is good.

[AchtungBaby80]

My family drives my old truck, DZ decal on the back window and all. I guess if my stepdad doesn't mind tooling around town with a pink and green sticker on the vehicle, I don't either--it's not like he's going to be mistaken for a sister. However, I don't know what I'll do when my younger sister inherits the truck next year...I will probably ask her to take it off.

[sigmadiva]

Originally posted by Rain Man
I trust that everyone here can protect their letters from "unauthorized use" within reason. I have no problem with that.

However, I do take issue with Greeks who worship their letters to the point that a nonmember can't use a pen or umbrella, or even drive a car that has the Greek letters or org's name on it. To those Greeks, I say, "Get over yourself; it's not that big of a deal"

That, IMHO is outright idolatry, and at that point, you are not protecting your letters, you are worshipping them almost as if the letters were a god itself.

I suspect that at least one poster in this thread (one of the most outspoken ones at that), is worshipping her letters and is curious why everyone else isn't doing the same.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.



*But I doubt it*

Some people take their letters to extremes, just like some football /soccer fans, school alumni.....

I think the reason some people do this, idolatry as you call it, is based on their experiences of how they became 'whatever'.

For example, let's say there was a young woman who grew up in Boston going to the Boston Red Sox games with her dad. Sadly, her dad dies and the one true connection she had with him was the Boston Red Sox. She is such a strong fan of the Boston Red Sox because of an emotional connection she made via the team. Its not so much the team that she is connected to, it is the relationship that she made while going to the games with her dad - the team represents a strong relationship she had that meant something to her.

Same with greek letters. One is not worshiping the letters / organization per se, it is just that during the intake / pledging period relationships were formed, emotions were expressed, you learned more about yourself and others. The greek letters represent a period in your life when you changed. Some people are protective about their letters because 1) they know and respect what they have learned about them and 2) it is a represenation of bonds that were made and since not everyone experienced that bonding, then that person feels that not everyone can 'use a pen' with his / her letters on it.

And...I've seen some greeks who are not very protective of their letters for various reasons.

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by sigmadiva
Some people take their letters to extremes, just like some football /soccer fans, school alumni.....

I think the reason some people do this, idolatry as you call it, is based on their experiences of how they became 'whatever'.

For example, let's say there was a young woman who grew up in Boston going to the Boston Red Sox games with her dad. Sadly, her dad dies and the one true connection she had with him was the Boston Red Sox. She is such a strong fan of the Boston Red Sox because of an emotional connection she made via the team. Its not so much the team that she is connected to, it is the relationship that she made while going to the games with her dad - the team represents a strong relationship she had that meant something to her.

Same with greek letters. One is not worshiping the letters / organization per se, it is just that during the intake / pledging period relationships were formed, emotions were expressed, you learned more about yourself and others. The greek letters represent a period in your life when you changed. Some people are protective about their letters because 1) they know and respect what they have learned about them and 2) it is a represenation of bonds that were made and since not everyone experienced that bonding, then that person feels that not everyone can 'use a pen' with his / her letters on it.

And...I've seen some greeks who are not very protective of their letters for various reasons.

Sigmadiva, while I see where you are coming from as far as being indoctrinated into your respective org, that still doesn't justify the lengths and extremes some people go to in order to protect their letters.

Personally speaking, I was a die-hard Alpha Phi Omega brother. I ate, breathed, and slept Alpha Phi Omega to the point that my relationship with the org bordered on idolatry--I'm talking attending APO functions, representing with nalia, and searching far and wide for tidbits of historic trivia facts and collecting and compiling them in a blue binder.

Having said that, I never saw the point of keeping someone from using a pen or a glass just because it had the APO letters on them. Matter of fact, I went out on a date with one woman, and she was a little cold, so I gave her my blue APO cardigan to wear--and I let her keep it for about 2 weeks, no questions or complaints. I later gave it to a Gamma Sig as a souvenir (I was told that the sweater was later jacked from her by some fellow brothers--who, I don't know).

Also, my mother "borrowed" my airbrushed APO shirt with the shield and letters on it--and got her drivers license picture taken wearing it. I could've made a big stink about it, but I didn't see the point, and the net result of it was it really wasn't affecting anybody.

Again, a love for something or someone is one thing. "Love" to the point of worship is another.

[Lady Pi Phi]

Originally posted by DSTCHAOS
This message board would not exist if we did that.

That would be a shame, wouldn't it. It makes no difference to me what other people do with their own letters. I'm not going to tell you what to do with your letters, and I would expect you no to tell me what to do with mine.