Anti-War Protesters....

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Dionysus
I think arguing about something like this is pretty senseless anyway (I mean, unless you just want to get a rise out of folks). We don't have all of the facts. We don't know Bush's true intentions. We don't know what REALLY is going on over there. We can't prove anything on either side until the end of the war. People are just talking out of their a$$es meanwhile.

I just hope something good comes out of all of this war, perhaps a lesson in humility at least.

I seriously can't believe you would hope America recieves a "lesson in humility"?

Do you mean you'd rather see us lose the war and run out of Iraq with our tail between our legs than for the Iraqi people to be liberated from the current oppressive government?

Don't want to put words in your mouth so please expain?

[Dionysus]

Originally posted by ktsnake
I seriously can't believe you would hope America recieves a "lesson in humility"?

Do you mean you'd rather see us lose the war and run out of Iraq with our tail between our legs than for the Iraqi people to be liberated from the current oppressive government?

Don't want to put words in your mouth so please expain?

Absolutely not. I did not imply that I wanted our side to lose the war. Either I used the wrong phrase to express my thoughts or some people are reading too deeply into that phrase.

I sure hope we DON'T lose the war.

[justamom]

Bro2b"The true mark of an intelligent man is to hold two conflicting notions in his mind and debate them internally." - Thomas Edison Excellent!

It is estimated that each day of protest costs $900,000.00.
The police force is unable to focus on homeland security.
These large crowds are perfect targets for acts of terrorism.
"Man on the street" interviews indicate-
Many involved in the protests have no idea what in the hell they are protesting.
Many protesters are organized in the sense that this is their life...when one demonstration is over, they move on to the next.
Many protesters (IMO) are indeed caught up in the image of the movement.

-It has been reported that France had technicians in Iraq training the regime in the use of the jamming instruments as recently as 3 weeks ago. Also, sanctioned items have been linked to France, Germany, Russia and China. All NO votes at the UN.
-Over 3,000 chemical suits were found in a hospital in N. Iraq. More were found in bunkers. Anti-nerve agent vials were found as well.
-NOW, Canada says they are interested in a tribunal to try Saddam and his cronies as war criminals. Don't get me started on France...they call us "bullies".
The bottom line in my mind is EVERYTHING boils down to money: trade, CONTRACTS, expansion, extortion.
Even if you take the stance that this is all for oil...which it is NOT,
consider this-
In a move to cripple the US economy (for whatever reasons, jealousy, power, hate fear) imagine a country where you cannot afford to drive your car or heat your home because we can't get the oil or the cost is prohibitive. You can't get a job because there aren't any. Your parents can't help you, because they have lost everything they worked so hard for. (A situation that is present today due to the clobbering of retirement funds.) Do you want to wait for ethanol to be sufficiently developed as a viable alternative to fossil fuel? What about our OWN resources? Many demonstrators would head straight for the next protest against developing Alaska or offshore drilling in an effort to be less dependent on the Middle East. All eyes are on us, and if we falter, we will be giving a green light to every country or individual that seeks power and the MEANS to destroy Western civilization.
Are we to be a "paper tiger"? And if not US (us) then who will be the ones to protect your freedoms and the lifestyle we all have grown accustomed to? Who will be the real strength behind a stance against genocide. WE are the peacekeepers even if there must be force- as in the wordenforce-to do so. The historians will debate the outcome and consequences of this war for years.

Like EVERYONE, I pray for ALL coalition soldiers, the president, the INNOCENTS and a swift end to this "conflict".

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Dionysus
Absolutely not. I did not imply that I wanted our side to lose the war. Either I used the wrong phrase to express my thoughts or some people are reading too deeply into that phrase.

I sure hope we DON'T lose the war.

Okay... that's what you didn't mean by "a lesson in humility"

What DID you mean?

[Dionysus]

Originally posted by ktsnake
Okay... that's what you didn't mean by "a lesson in humility"

What DID you mean?

A wake up call that this country is NOT invincible...many people appear to have the attitude that we are.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Dionysus
A wake up call that this country is NOT invincible...many people appear to have the attitude that we are.

I think we had that on 9/11/2001.

But how is that different from hoping we lose?

[Dionysus]

Originally posted by ktsnake
I think we had that on 9/11/2001.

But how is that different from hoping we lose?

It is different, you don't have to lose a war (or anything) to lose a lot. The fact that this war is taking longer than we thought and fighting this war is harder than we thought, should give us some insight in future situations not to underestimate our "rivals" and perhaps give us second thoughts before we support such drastic actions.

I don't think this war is taking longer that any of the people in the know expected. In every speech W has made, he has said that the road is going to be long and hard.

The people that thought this war was going to be over quick were just the average people on the street.

I find it interesting that you think America needs another wake-up call, or setback, or whatever. I personally feel that no more Americans should die in a terrorist attack or otherwise needlessly, regardless of the "lesson" gleaned from the situation.

Kitso
KS 361

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Dionysus
It is different, you don't have to lose a war (or anything) to lose a lot. The fact that this war is taking longer than we thought and fighting this war is harder than we thought, should give us some insight in future situations not to underestimate our "rivals" and perhaps give us second thoughts before we support such drastic actions.

Name one person, truly "in the know" that said this would be quick and easy?

Can't do it?

That's right.. because they never said this would be over the same day it started.

In fact they've been saying much the opposite.

People are confusing REAL policy-makers and military folks with talking heads on the 24-hour news channels. There is a difference.

[Dionysus]

Originally posted by AggieSigmaNu361


I find it interesting that you think America needs another wake-up call, or setback, or whatever. I personally feel that no more Americans should die in a terrorist attack or otherwise needlessly, regardless of the "lesson" gleaned from the situation.

Kitso
KS 361

I NEVER said that. I never said that an American should die to learn a lesson.

Originally posted by Dionysus
I NEVER said that. I never said that an American should die to learn a lesson.

That's fine and all, but up above you said that we need a wake-up call to prove that we aren't invincible. I interpret such a wake-up call to mean a security breach, a military defeat, etc. Please elaborate how we can find out that we aren't invincible without people losing their lives.

I'm just saying that as far as i'm concerned, 9-11 is the last wake-up call we ever need to get. From here on out, we need to protect our interests at home and abroad using whatever means necessary.

Kitso
KS 361

[Peaches-n-Cream]

You guys, please stop picking on Dionysus. She didn't mean that people should die, and I believe her.

This war has been going on for only one week. I hope that it isn't a long drawn out war. The last I heard the President is asking Congress to allocate enough money for at least one month of fighting with six months of humanitarian aid. That's $175 billion.

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally posted by ZZ-kai-
I understand that as Americans, we are fortunate to be able to protest this, and protest that..., but I am fed up with these Anti-War demonstrators. What makes me the angriest, are these people walking around with signs that say "NO WAR FOR OIL". Dumbasses, we are not there for oil.

This is not the 70's, so don't try to re-live your hippie days, this is not the movie PCU (We're not gonna protest, Gutter is a tool), this is real life. We are already at war, protesting it will solve nothing more than shutting down Michigan Ave. The least we all should be doing is SUPPORTING our troops.

I leave you Anti-War protesters with this: If you are so anti-war, move your ass to Iraq for a month and tell me how much you like living under Saddam's regime. Were the rape rooms not enough? Were the beatings and murders not enough? How about the mutilations to the Iraqi Olympians who did not perform well enough? Using chemical weapons to murder your own people by the thousands, is that enough? Killing innocent women and children, is that enough?

Then come back to the good ole U.S. of A., and protest another war. I dare ya.


I am Pro- American

I can't believe you posted this, nor can I believe that there are other idiots that agree with you. I take that back, I can...

THANK GOD for protesters! If it wasn't for protesters, MANY of us would not be here enjoying the freedoms that we have. And I am not talking about protests of the 60's or 70's but of those of TODAY! Broad ASSumptions are never good or grounded in good sense.

You do not know eveything about this war, just as none of us really know the REAL DEAL.

Why don't YOU move to Iraq? Since you seem to have everything figured out, why don't you take that "fighting spirit of conviction" and help them rise up against their government? It is real easy to talk a good game behind a computer when your arse haven't lived in those conditions.

[Peaches-n-Cream]

It seems to me that the protesters are interrupting other people's lives. They seem to be more of an inconvenience than an effective voice in changing this country's policy regarding Iraq.

[librasoul22]

First and foremost, for people "in the know" the war was originally proposed to find and destroy weapons of mass destruction, right? Correct me if I am wrong on that one.

Nowadays, that little spiel has pretty much gone out the window. No more pretense, we are there to kill Saddam. Donald Rumsfeld has said as of yet, they have found NO evidence of WMD and they have yet to fire a SCUD missile. The chemical suits are hardly anything substantial. Why should they not have protective gear?

The funny thing is, most people have blindly shifted their focus right along with Bush, as if it is a-ok. Do you not see the smoke and mirrors?

No one is arguing that Saddam is a horrible dictator, guilty of terrorizing his own people. But don't sit on my TV and try to say that we are going to war to find and destroy WMD, when you KNOW it is to soley to find and kill someone. When they find any kind of chemical weapon or WMD, I will concede that this war was a necessary evil. Until then, I call it LIES.

As for Dionysus statement about humility, I didn't take it to mean that Americans should die or we should have another 9/11. I took it to mean that we will have some serious egg on our faces if this war is over and there are no WMD/biological weapons.