The Murder of Trayvon Martin

[DaemonSeid]

^^ wow. love.

[knight_shadow]

^^ You honestly have not seen ONE article saying that he was in that community because his father/father's GF lived there? That's been in nearly every article I've read.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

^^ You honestly have not seen ONE article saying that he was in that community because his father/father's GF lived there? That's been in nearly every article I've read.

No from the articles I read it looked like he was taking a shortcut through the gated community, never that he lived in there. I admitted that I was wrong.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

No from the articles I read it looked like he was taking a shortcut through the gated community, never that he lived in there. I admitted that I was wrong.

Calm down. I wasn't attacking you.

I'm just curious what articles you're reading that haven't mentioned it. Even the places that are branding TM as a thug acknowledge that "he was only yards away from home"

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Calm down. I wasn't attacking you.

I'm just curious what articles you're reading that haven't mentioned it. Even the places that are branding TM as a thug acknowledge that "he was only yards away from home"

Hey, she knew she was gonna get flamed....remember?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

No it's the point where I say that I could care less what color or status or class someone is. If you look suspicious, I will be suspicious.

The problem with this and its relevance to Zimmerman is that you're talking about your perspective and your reaction. It doesn't matter to you whether the person who looks suspicious is black or white or other, and race doesn't enter into your calculation of whether someone looks suspicious or not. Ditto status or class.

But the fact that these things wouldn't matter to you is irrelevant to the question of whether they mattered to Zimmerman. They might not have mattered to him or they might have -- we'll just have to wait and see. I don't know and I don't want to speculate one way or the other.

But in a hate crimes analysis, what will be determinative is not whether a reasonable person could have found Trayvon Martin's actions/presence to be suspicious without any reference to his race, but (as DrPhil said) whether Zimmerman targeted him on the basis of his race.

[DaemonSeid]

UPDATE: 1:40 p.m. ET: Trayvon Martin shooter George Zimmerman appeared in a Florida courtroom shortly after 1:30 p.m. He entered the courtroom in handcuffs. Flanked by a police officer and his lawyer, Mark O'Mara, Zimmerman acknowledged the second-degree murder charge against him. O'Mara said a not guilty plea was entered.

The judge agreed there was probable cause to proceed, and set for a formal arraignment on May 29, at 1:30 p.m. ET.

Zimmerman is being held in protective custody without bail in Seminole County Jail, but asked for the case file to be sealed. The prosecutors agreed to the request.

O'Mara did not ask the judge to set a bond.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...143832017.html

[DaemonSeid]

that is why I said 'allege'.

Both times.

You did see that, right?

Again, it has to be proven.

Again as I said earlier...it is up in the air.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

that is why I said 'allege'.

Both times.

You did see that, right?

Again, it has to be proven.

Again as I said earlier...it is up in the air.

The discussion that you and I are having is about whether the allegations should even be allegations. Our discussion is also about miswordings and misrepresentations.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

The discussion that you and I are having is about whether the allegations should even be allegations. Our discussion is also about miswordings and misrepresentations.

If that's the case then we are done.

Wait and see when the trial comes about because regardless of how we circle around it, you nor I have definitive proof nor evidence, if we did, we would be in Florida right now. And for even the speculations we are debating right now, it may not even come up in court.

In other news, there is speculation that the shooting does open the HOA up for a lawsuit.

You have a nice night.


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...n-martin-suit/

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

If that's the case then we are done.

Wait and see when the trial comes about because regardless of how we circle around it, you nor I have definitive proof nor evidence, if we did, we would be in Florida right now. And for even the speculations we are debating right now, it may not even come up in court.

Perhaps you are done but I am not.

Regardless of a pending trial or anything else, I find it interesting that "he was warning others about Black people in the area," with and without the use of "allegedly," is being used to imply (non-law enforcement) racial profiling and therefore a hate crime. How that is being interpreted says a great deal regarding racial and ethnic relations regardless of whether it is brought up in court and regardless of the outcome of this case.

[SOM]

For those interested in this case, may I suggest following Lionel. Besides being a Brother in a GLO, he is also an attorney and former DA in FL. Has some rather great and insightful commentary on it.
For example, this may never, ever (under FL laws) even get to a full blown trial.
http://www.podjockey.com/lionelmedia...wait-immunity/

He is on both Facebook and twitter.

[SOM]

And on another note: There maybe reason(s) to wonder why Mr. Zimmerman was still even permitted to carry the gun that he used to kill Mr. Martin.
Mr. Zimmerman carried a loaded firearm on his person as he was “acting” as a neighborhood watch “Captain“. That is in direct violation of ALL neighborhood watch rules and regulations. Had Mr. Zimmerman obeyed the neighborhood watch rules and regulations, Mr. Martin would be alive today.

Mr. Zimmerman had a permit to carry a firearm. Mr. Zimmerman should never have been allowed to have a permit to carry based on Florida law for domestic abuse restraining orders:
DISQUALIFYING CRIMES: DOMESTIC VIOLENCE
• If you have been convicted of a domestic crime of violence, you will be deemed ineligible unless you can
show proof of one of the following three conditions:
a) that you have received relief from federal firearms disabilities;
b) that you have received a presidential pardon; or,
c) that a court has sealed or expunged the record.
• If you have had adjudication of guilt withheld or imposition of sentence suspended on any misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, you will be INELIGIBLE for licensure UNLESS THREE YEARS HAVE ELAPSED SINCE PROBATION OR ANY OTHER COURT-IMPOSED CONDITIONS HAVE BEEN FULFILLED (or the record has been sealed or expunged).
This is the one that pertains to Mr. Zimmerman:
If you have been issued an injunction that is currently in force that restrains you from committing acts of
domestic violence or acts of repeat violence, you will be disqualified from eligibility until that injunction is
no longer in force.
Mr. Zimmerman had a charge of domestic violence and his ex-fiance took out a restraining order against him.
Had this rule of law been adhered to as it would have been for me or you, Mr. Martin would still be alive today.
http://theobamacrat.com/2012/04/11/t...rge-zimmerman/

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by SOM

And on another note: There maybe reason(s) to wonder why Mr. Zimmerman was still even permitted to carry the gun that he used to kill Mr. Martin.
Mr. Zimmerman carried a loaded firearm on his person as he was “acting” as a neighborhood watch “Captain“. That is in direct violation of ALL neighborhood watch rules and regulations. Had Mr. Zimmerman obeyed the neighborhood watch rules and regulations, Mr. Martin would be alive today.

Mr. Zimmerman had a permit to carry a firearm. Mr. Zimmerman should never have been allowed to have a permit to carry based on Florida law for domestic abuse restraining orders:
DISQUALIFYING CRIMES: DOMESTIC VIOLENCE
• If you have been convicted of a domestic crime of violence, you will be deemed ineligible unless you can
show proof of one of the following three conditions:
a) that you have received relief from federal firearms disabilities;
b) that you have received a presidential pardon; or,
c) that a court has sealed or expunged the record.
• If you have had adjudication of guilt withheld or imposition of sentence suspended on any misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, you will be INELIGIBLE for licensure UNLESS THREE YEARS HAVE ELAPSED SINCE PROBATION OR ANY OTHER COURT-IMPOSED CONDITIONS HAVE BEEN FULFILLED (or the record has been sealed or expunged).
This is the one that pertains to Mr. Zimmerman:
If you have been issued an injunction that is currently in force that restrains you from committing acts of
domestic violence or acts of repeat violence, you will be disqualified from eligibility until that injunction is
no longer in force.
Mr. Zimmerman had a charge of domestic violence and his ex-fiance took out a restraining order against him.
Had this rule of law been adhered to as it would have been for me or you, Mr. Martin would still be alive today.
http://theobamacrat.com/2012/04/11/t...rge-zimmerman/

I don't know about this. As I know it, Zimmerman was merely ACCUSED of domestic violence, never did he face charges or was convicted for domestic violence.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

I don't know about this. As I know it, Zimmerman was merely ACCUSED of domestic violence, never did he face charges or was convicted for domestic violence.

Sounds like Oklahoma. If someone files a protective order case, the only real way to file for your own alternative relief is to file another protective order case.