I Am Not a Costume! - Page 10

33girl · #**136** 01-19-2012, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisticLight

I love dressing up in costume when I go to conventions but at the same time I don't want to offend anyone. I love showing love for my favorite fictional characters but most of the time I look nothing like them in real life. (such as different skin color or opposite gender)

Well OK, let's discuss that.

Is it offensive to an African-American if a white man dresses up - skin darkened and all - as Worf from ST: TNG? IMO, that would depend on how much Worf's skin color was part of him being a Klingon.

I can't believe I just wrote that.

MisticLight · #**137** 01-19-2012, 01:46 AM

I don't wear any make up at all with my costumes mainly because I'm not experienced with using make up and I'll rather just not worry if skin color is accurate unless it's a weird color like blue/purple where is it part of the character.

amIblue? · #**138** 01-19-2012, 08:58 AM

I think using makeup to change your skin color (unless it's red or blue, etc) is problematic.

SOPi_Jawbreaker · #**139** 01-20-2012, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisticLight

I did read the thread. I don't see how dressing up as a geisha is seen as negative. Also the article didn't make sense to me as why the opening addressed sexy costumes when that wasn't the topic at hand. Instead of asking if I read the thread, mind explaining why dressing up as a geisha is offensive?

It has to do with the stereotypes of Asian women. It is a hyper-sexualized stereotype...that Asian women are submissive whores that exist to please,obey, and submit to white men, like the whole "Me love you long time" thing.

Slight tangent - A big part of the stereotype continuing to persist is the huge problem of sex trafficing of Asian women in Asia and in the US. When I was growing up, there was an Asian massage parlor on the other side of town (suburban town in Pennsylvania) that was rumored to be a prostitution ring. And a few years later, a sting operation cenfirmed it and it was raided. Before that though, my family had once gone to buy furniture at a furniture store that was in the same shopping center. I was probably 13 or 14 (and definitely looked 13 or 14), and a 50-something white man that was going to the massage parlor smiled and looked at me really creepily and lecherously when he walked past me and my family. It was very disturbing to have a 50-something man looking at me like that.

As for real, authentic kimonos, hair, and makeup, I'm not Japanese but I think that it can be done respectfully by non-Japanese if they've educated themselves about the culture,
the history, and the meaning. I think there is a difference between wearing an authentic kimono because you have learned about and admire the culture vs dressing up in a cheap, slutty-looking costume that equates geisha with being just a sex object.

ElieM · #**140** 01-20-2012, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOPi_Jawbreaker

As for real, authentic kimonos, hair, and makeup, I'm not Japanese but I think that it can be done respectfully by non-Japanese if they've educated themselves about the culture, the history, and the meaning. I think there is a difference between wearing an authentic kimono because you have learned about and admire the culture vs dressing up in a cheap, slutty-looking costume that equates geisha with being just a sex object.

Given that there has been at least one non-Japanese geisha, if you don't count Liza Dalby, who never formally trained as one, you could dress up as a geisha. I think there is a Romanian geisha as well.

christiangirl · #**141** 01-20-2012, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl

Well OK, let's discuss that.

Is it offensive to an African-American if a white man dresses up - skin darkened and all - as Worf from ST: TNG? IMO, that would depend on how much Worf's skin color was part of him being a Klingon.

I can't believe I just wrote that.

iLOL'd

Psi U MC Vito · #**142** 01-20-2012, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl

Well OK, let's discuss that.

Is it offensive to an African-American if a white man dresses up - skin darkened and all - as Worf from ST: TNG? IMO, that would depend on how much Worf's skin color was part of him being a Klingon.

I can't believe I just wrote that.

Letting my nerd show, but IIRC all the Klingons were black.

Senusret I · #**143** 01-20-2012, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Letting my nerd show, but IIRC all the Klingons were black.

Nope. Many were played by white actors. Brian Bonsall (also from Family Ties) played Worf's son, for example.

Psi U MC Vito · #**144** 01-20-2012, 03:51 PM

So I stand corrected.

amIblue? · #**145** 01-20-2012, 05:08 PM

Y'all lost me at Klingon.

DrPhil · #**146** 11-13-2013, 10:39 AM

This thread is old and Halloween is over. But this article about Black Pete and Christmas made me think of this thread.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4259497.html

Tulip86 · #**147** 11-13-2013, 11:34 AM

The blackface has to go, and most (educated) Dutch people wholeheartedly agree with that and have for years. It's getting the message across to the rest of the people and eradicating a centuries-old tradition that has proven to be very difficult.

I personally think, because Dutch culture is so integrated and influenced by many cultures, some people don't (want to) recognize that some of their traditions and behaviors still stem from racism, even if they don't see it as racist.

The organizing parties have taken steps to slowly alter the appearance of Zwarte Piet as of 2014, since the 2013 celebrations are already going on. Starting in 2014 there will be changes made to slowly alter the look of Zwarte Piet in a few years. As in, no more golden earrings, curly black wigs, red lips etc, with more changes every year. They decided against changing it all in one year, as that would have the same result as telling all kids that Santa doesn't exist, the Dutch kids believe in Sinterklaas and Zwarte Piet like American kids believe in Santa. I'm glad this has got people talking and reevaluating their behaviors.

And Black Pete has nothing to do with Christmas here. It's a different holiday. In The Netherlands Christmas is still BabyJesus, sparkly lights and food. Santa and his reindeer have made an entrance too (mostly on TV), but December 5th is when kids get presents from an old guy in a red suit, who, with his helpers, deliver presents to all kids who were good. Sound familiar?

I have to say, this is a very poorly written article on the subject. I can tell the article is written by an "outsider" as in, they got many, many facts wrong in that article and it's very one-sided. There has been a huge debate on this in the last few months and most of the stories on the web and in papers have been far better researched.

TLDR? The Blackface has to go, and most Dutch people agree, but how to do that without taking away THE children's holiday (presents-wise celebrated much like X-mas) is going to be a tough nut to crack.

DrPhil · #**148** 11-13-2013, 12:26 PM

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...nder-fire.html

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...lands/3000531/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...nited-nations/

http://news.yahoo.com/dutch-push-bac...175656278.html

Tulip86 · #**149** 11-13-2013, 01:10 PM

I think the article from the Washington post reflects what most Dutch people feel that even though it's a tradition, this has to change.

Kevin · #**150** 11-13-2013, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amIblue?

I think using makeup to change your skin color (unless it's red or blue, etc) is problematic.

I get the whole minstrel show thing and how incredibly offensive all of that was, but don't you think taking a position that ALL makeup to change skin color is problematic?

I mean, apart from the terrible writing and not being funny at all, there's nothing particularly offensive about this:

--is there?