Occupy Wall Street

[AGDee]

Things are getting interesting for Occupy Detroit. New signs have been posted in the park where they are camping that say the park closes at 10 pm. Apparently their permit was not granted for 60 days, but only 30 days and that is up Monday night. Their park is along the Detroit Thanksgiving Parade route and is a key place for grandstands and I suspect that is the motivation for getting them out next week. Apparently they've been offered the use of a building by a union for an indoor occupation through winter, which is pretty cool. They had an emergency meeting last night which was on livestream and it was pretty interesting to see. Police showed up in riot gear but just surrounded them and left when the meeting ended.

[AOII Angel]

We drove past Occupy Phoenix two nights ago. They are camped out downtown about five or six blocks from me. No one is allowed to sleep due to rules about "urban camping" aka no homeless allowed to sleep downtown. They come out in shifts. There are several tents for food, medical and media. Very quiet and orderly group when we drove by. You wouldn't know it by th police presence, though. I counted five police SUVs parked next to them, and we turned the corner, two police on motorcycles were sitting there with another cruiser a block away. I can't say I've ever seen that many police vehicles away from a police station.

[DrPhil]

Man fatally shoots himself at Occupy protest in Vermont:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45246660...rmont-protest/

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Man fatally shoots himself at Occupy protest in Vermont:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45246660...rmont-protest/

That's interesting. I saw a story a few days back of a woman being found dead in one of the tents at an occupy event. I can't find an updated story as to the cause of the death, if it was natural or if foul play is suspected. Something that is alarming to me is the growing number of reports of how crime (to even include sexual assault) is being unreported to police and covered up for fear of the occupiers permits getting revoked.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

That's interesting. I saw a story a few days back of a woman being found dead in one of the tents at an occupy event. I can't find an updated story as to the cause of the death, if it was natural or if foul play is suspected. Something that is alarming to me is the growing number of reports of how crime (to even include sexual assault) is being unreported to police and covered up for fear of the occupiers permits getting revoked.

There were a couple of violent crimes at at least one Occupy protest last week. From the dawn of humanity, putting humans together for a long enough time has resulted in crime and deviance (when societies have definitions of criminal and deviant acts). I do not know why the Occupy protestors thought that they would be different.

I agree with someone on a news show who said something to the effect of: "these types of protests are a means to a goal...they are not THE goal."

I think it is time for the Occupiers to go home (for those who have homes) and figure out their next course of action. Real longevity comes when you can enact change when you stop sleeping in tents and marching boulevards.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45258539/ns/us_news-life/

[DrPhil]

Trouble arises as the Occupiers realize their shit DOES stink. They are now bickering over who is among the top 1% of the Occupiers (every group has a top percent of members); and over who is the Head Occupier In Charge.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45285979/ns/us_news-life/

[ASTalumna06]

Many businesses continue to struggle due to the protests

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...815904944.html

Over the weekend, I heard on the radio that collectively, some businesses are losing hundreds of thousands of dollars. As this article points out, sales are actually up in some areas, but in others, there are large drops in profits, layoffs are necessary, and business owners are becoming frustrated.

On the news tonight, one restaurant owner said that people are sneaking in through the back door, and some are actually changing their clothes (underwear included) in the restaurant and leaving these dirty items for him to pick up. Yuck.

Ironically, the 99% are pissing off other people in the 99% and causing them to struggle to make a living.

[ASTalumna06]

The Occupiers can't even agree as to whether or not they should make any demands...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45260610/ns/us_news-life/

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

The Occupiers can't even agree as to whether or not they should make any demands...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45260610/ns/us_news-life/

I've been wondering about that the entire time.

Kudos for protesting and taking a stand, but what are you standing for? I have several fraternity brothers who are very involved in this movement, and none of them have been able to tell me about it.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I've been wondering about that the entire time.

Kudos for protesting and taking a stand, but what are you standing for? I have several fraternity brothers who are very involved in this movement, and none of them have been able to tell me about it.

Exaaactly.

And even if they DID know what they wanted, half of them don't even want to tell the rest of us.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

The Occupiers can't even agree as to whether or not they should make any demands...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45260610/ns/us_news-life/

This is why true democracies rarely work on a large scale. I'm sorry, but to get anything accomplished you really need a structured leadership.

[*winter*]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

Ironically, the 99% are pissing off other people in the 99% and causing them to struggle to make a living.

I. LOVE. THIS!!!

Now they are discovering what those of us in public health have known for years: when you get a whole bunch of people together in one place, they will have to use facilities...they will generate garbage that needs dealt with...and if sanitation facilities are inadequate, things are going to become a big mess pretty quickly.

Really, if this was a bunch of homeless crackheads doing these things in a park, the police would have already rounded them up and taken them to jail. It's like it's accepted because they are middle-class. That's a double standard.

I'm tired of these people, personally. They are resource-sappers for the rest of the 99%. And they don't speak for me. I can't relate to 99% of what comes out of their mouths. Complaining about not being automatically zoomed into Upper Middle America with their (often irrelevant) college degrees. Well, get over it- working class people have been struggling for generations. Even at its worst, their lives are so much better than the lives of so many in this country. I can't help feel they are not fighting for the truly underpriveledged, but they are just irate because their lives haven't turned out exactly the way society has told them they should by age 25, because we are in a recession.

And if they are so concerned with inequalities in this country, do something productive, like tutor at an after-school center (if there are any left, with all the funding cuts...but that's another post) for underpriveledged kids. 4 or 5 hours spent sitting in a tent doesn't do JACK for the real problems in this country. 4 or 5 hours spent working with a kid who really wants to understand Algebra but just isn't getting it without help does a LOT. Think of the power of thousands- if they would all just go volunteer for those hours, instead of sitting around in tents- amazing things could happen. These ARE edcuated, intelliegent people- pool your resources and start looking for places where you can ACTUALLY make a difference instead of pulling this stunt.

I think it's kind of funny (but I'm just mean like that)...the Occupy movement has finally come to Newark, NJ. They were told to get out of the parks by dusk, but then the police changed their mind and let them stay. The caveat? "You are on your own," the police Captain said. "Call 911 if there's an emergency." And then the officers left to go patrol the neighborhoods.

I totally agree with this approach. There are far too few police officers in cities these days due to all the crazy budget issues- those officers need to be in the neighborhoods, tackling the very real issues that are happening there, not baby-sitting a bunch of people who think sitting in a park is going to change the national tax structure (which ain't happening.)

I know, I'm just a big meanie But honestly, what is sitting in a park doing to change the world? It's not 1969!!!

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by *winter*

Really, if this was a bunch of homeless crackheads doing these things in a park, the police would have already rounded them up and taken them to jail. It's like it's accepted because they are middle-class. That's a double standard.

Um, homeless crackheads live on the streets all the time and nobody does anything at all about it. There aren't enough jails...

Originally Posted by *winter*

Complaining about not being automatically zoomed into Upper Middle America with their (often irrelevant) college degrees. Well, get over it- working class people have been struggling for generations. Even at its worst, their lives are so much better than the lives of so many in this country. I can't help feel they are not fighting for the truly underpriveledged, but they are just irate because their lives haven't turned out exactly the way society has told them they should by age 25, because we are in a recession.

This isn't the complaint. The complaint is that no matter what you or anybody else does, you are completely and totally powerless in determining the future of our country, laws, financial state, etc. Because corporations have all the power. This is NOT a government of the people, by the people or for the people. It is a corrupt hotbed of corporate greed. Is that really ok with you?

Originally Posted by *winter*

And if they are so concerned with inequalities in this country, do something productive, like tutor at an after-school center (if there are any left, with all the funding cuts...but that's another post) for underpriveledged kids. These ARE edcuated, intelliegent people- pool your resources and start looking for places where you can ACTUALLY make a difference instead of pulling this stunt.

The bolded part is exactly what they are protesting!

Originally Posted by *winter*

I think it's kind of funny (but I'm just mean like that)...the Occupy movement has finally come to Newark, NJ. They were told to get out of the parks by dusk, but then the police changed their mind and let them stay. The caveat? "You are on your own," the police Captain said. "Call 911 if there's an emergency." And then the officers left to go patrol the neighborhoods.

This is what the Occupy people want them to do. Watching the Portland standoff, with police in riot gear and the crowd chanting "We are a peaceful people" and "You don't need your riot gear, we don't see a riot here." This was after the police forced them out of a park, into one block of a street, packed in like sardines, and then announced over a bullhorn that if they didn't move to a sidewalk, they could be subject to arrest or physical, chemical or biological means of force. The sidewalk was packed, the street was packed and the police were blocking ALL possible points of egress. That was total B.S. Herd a group into a space for no reason, then tell them to leave or be arrested or injured and give them no way to leave???

Originally Posted by *winter*

I know, I'm just a big meanie But honestly, what is sitting in a park doing to change the world? It's not 1969!!!

Maybe it needs to be. What would you do to change the world? How would you get media attention from all over the world to look at real problems in our societal structure?

I will say that I have not agreed with every direct action they have implemented. Blocking subways during NYC rush hour doesn't hurt anybody but the rest of the 99%. Whether I agree with all of their ideas and methods or not, they have a right to be heard and a right to protest. We have the First Amendment for a reason. The 1% is clearly getting uncomfortable with this movement and orchestrated raids on Occupy camps all in the same night all over the country. The old saying is, First they ignore you, then they fight back, then you win. As they often change "The whole world is watching." This says to me that they are winning.

Check this out: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1....html#liveblog Sounds like the 1% is getting scared to me.

[*winter*]

Um, homeless crackheads live on the streets all the time and nobody does anything at all about it. There aren't enough jails...

Point being, they get rounded up and arrested on a regular basis. In Pittsburgh they've been pretty nasty in terms of taking their belongings and raiding their camps during the day when they are empty. And certainly if there were as many of them as there are Occupy protesters, in one big place, making what amounts to a giant mess, they would all be rounded up and carted off to jail. They don't have cell phone cameras or vidoe recording devices. How do we know how the police treat them? We don't. Do these kids care? Doubtful. Bless the ones who are working with the homeless in the area, but they are the exception.

This isn't the complaint. The complaint is that no matter what you or anybody else does, you are completely and totally powerless in determining the future of our country, laws, financial state, etc. Because corporations have all the power. This is NOT a government of the people, by the people or for the people. It is a corrupt hotbed of corporate greed. Is that really ok with you?

Bull. It's the United States, not India. You are NEVER, ever totally powerless- I just refuse to believe that. As a veteran who swore up and down I'd die to defend this country and what it stands for, that statement really offends me. Not every politician is in someone's back pocket- and if there are so many that are that bad, to quote one Union official, "the only thing you need to be occupying is a voting booth."

It's not okay with me, but it's not been okay with me and my family basically since we got off the boat. Look at how factories treated workers in the 20th century, and when they didn't get their way in the US anymore, they packed up and moved the whole operation overseas, thus basically killing off the towns left behind. Not to mention the tens of thousands of orphaned dump sites they still have yet to clean up. Not to mention drafting our kids to fight in their wars (a roundabout version still occurring with the wars and the population most likely to "volunteer" for them) So, yeah...corporations being selfish and not thinking about the workers- this is NOT breaking news. It's only an "issue" since Middle America feels put out by the whole thing. If it was just the lower class, as its been for the entirety of the country's history, it would be business as usual.

The bolded part is exactly what they are protesting!

But their protesting is only making it worse for cities. There are only so many resources to go around. That's why I agree with the police Captain telling them they are on their own. For most of them, it's not THEIR city, it's not their tax dollars funding the police department, so too bad- quit hogging resources from the rest of the 99%.

God forbid someone like my mother/sister (62 with osteoperosis, and mother of a toddler, respectively) would be calling 911 for a true emergency, and the lines would be clogged, or the police/fire/EMS dispatched elsewhere over this nonsense. If that was your family, living in a city, dependent on already limited resources, how would you feel? People living in high-crime areas in cities need to know with 100% certainty that if they call 911 for a life-threatening emergency, that there will be officers available to answer. I'm sorry, but protesting is just NOT that important in the grand scheme of things.

Maybe it needs to be. What would you do to change the world?

I'm already doing it. Just because I'm not a protester doesn't mean I'm not changing the world. What I'm doing in individual lives and individual communities will have exponentially more of an impact than what these people are doing. Because, at the end of the day, do you really think the 1% cares? Fight them one on one when there's injustice in your own community, inequalities in your own school district, get out there and meet the people who are dealing with them and their gas wells, or their coal mines, that's what I'm doing. And I'm incredibly proud of my work, and what is yet to come.

How would you get media attention from all over the world to look at real problems in our societal structure?

Who cares about social media attention? The last time I turned on my TV, it told me Kim K's wedding was the biggest event in the news. Point proven.

Whether I agree with all of their ideas and methods or not, they have a right to be heard and a right to protest. We have the First Amendment for a reason.

Great, speak- there's freedom of speech. But don't use your cause to drain resources and throw your dirty underwear and human excrement around. Other people in the area have rights too- why are their rights to free speech "more important" than everyone else's basic rights to live in a clean and safe community?

The 1% is clearly getting uncomfortable with this movement and orchestrated raids on Occupy camps all in the same night all over the country. The old saying is, First they ignore you, then they fight back, then you win. As they often change "The whole world is watching." This says to me that they are winning.

Again, most of the world watches the Jersey Shore, so just because the world is watching does not mean it is going to bring positive change.

The 1% does not give an F. Walk into Goldman Sachs. I bet it's business as usual. They know they are untouchable, and they've already gotten bailed out.

The ones I deal with feel untouchable- they are in a situation where they have lied, cheated and stole to get where they are (all things we have proof of- in due time, it will all come to light) and when asked politely to come to the table and bargain with the community, they snub their noses! Because they know they can!!! They have top-notch lawyers, they have always gotten over on the people, so they think this time will be no different. Their arrogance is absolutely astounding. Based on this dealing, I would not exect much from the 1% no matter how many places people "Occupy."

But that does not make them untouchable. The truth is untouchable. Justice is untouchable. Once there is an arena to be held accountable in a court of law, hopefully justice will prevail, and thus prove my point- this country has a lot of flaws, but the rich and powerful don't always win.

And then the inevitable, "Well that's what they are protesting!" One, I don't completely agree that that is what they are protesting (more on that below). Two, I don't think protesting will change things, but I do know that fighting for our communities every day WILL. Maybe not on a global level, but one on one, and that's important, too. That's where I choose to concentrate my energy. It is frustrating when you are volunteering with a skeleton crew on feral cat management, or with Big Brothers Big Sisters, Salvation Army, or any other organization that can't find enough volunteers, but there are 1000 people sitting in a park. To me, that's maddening.

This does not apply for ALL protesters, but for many of them...I can't help think if their lives had worked out the way they "thought" they would (i.e. graduate college, get a great job, in 5 years marry and buy a brand-new overpriced house in a development, buy a giant SUV, move up in the corporate world) they wouldn't be protesting. They'd be exactly where they thought they'd always be: off in the suburbs, living lives ignorant of the struggles of the rest of the country.

Not only do they want a piece of the pie, their problem is they've felt ENTITLED to the pie, as a virtue of their social class and standing, for their entires lives. When that doesn't automatically happen at 22 years old, they can't handle it. The "pie" is not your birthright. The ability to succeed still exists in this country. It is not dead. Fight for what is yours and eventually success will come.

[amIblue?]

Portland Pepper Spray Shot

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/natio...ccident/45186/

If someone emailed me this, I would think it was Photoshopped.