University fo Okahoma-Sigma Alpha Epsilon-Racial Chant

[tld221]

Just jumping in to add some fuel to the Wikipedia-subject matter expert issue discussed upthread: NYPD Caught Editing Wikipedia Entries About Police Brutality Victims

[TSteven]

I guess I'm missing something as well.

As I understand it, Sigma Alpha Epsilon HQ revolked the charter - which I believe happened prior to the Oklahoma president "kicking them off campus". Regardless of the time line, there isn't an OU chapter of SAE to sue. So how would that work? Class action?

And since SAE HQ does not reconize an OU chapter, could that "boost" OU's case that there is "just cause" to have a chapter - that is no longer in "good standing" by their HQ - removed from the house?

[MysticCat]

I guess I wouldn't presume that the three-sentence story accurately reflects what is going on or may go on. Unfortunately, my experience has taught me to assume that a news story like this probably has gotten it wrong.

It says (without an actual quote) that the attorney said "the group is outraged over President Boren shutting down the fraternity house and branding all SAE members as racists and bigots." I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's members of the chapter who are planning to sue for something like being removed from the house in the middle of the semester (did they have somewhere to go?) without due process or for defamation.

Besides, I wonder if the chapter itself (or former chapter) is a legal entity capable of suing and being sued under Oklahoma law. Kevin?

[PGD-GRAD]

Every one of us has suffered through negative publicity from the bad behavior of a chapter, but nothing like this SAE shitstorm. And in my fraternity's case, I just wanted it to be dealt with in a speedy fashion and hope the publicity would dissipate.

Yesterday was the first day in a long string that I noticed SAE at Oklahoma wasn't in the top 3 news teasers. Wednesday it was their housemother! But if I were part of their headquarters staff, I would be doing everything I could to get that chapter to drop their suit. If not, SAE's name will be in the news for lord knows how many weeks--a major train wreck.

[thetalady]

Originally Posted by PGD-GRAD

But if I were part of their headquarters staff, I would be doing everything I could to get that chapter to drop their suit. If not, SAE's name will be in the news for lord knows how many weeks--a major train wreck.

I believe about half of what I hear on the news. Having said that, I read today that the members of the chapter have "cut off communication" with their headquarters.

And the representation by Stephen Jones does NOT include the "song leaders", Pettit and Rice

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/13/us/sae...rnity-fallout/

[ZetaPhi708.20]

Originally Posted by thetalady

I believe about half of what I hear on the news. Having said that, I read today that the members of the chapter have "cut off communication" with their headquarters.

And the representation by Stephen Jones does NOT include the "song leaders", Pettit and Rice

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/13/us/sae...rnity-fallout/

In theory, with that chapter's former current members and their various internal chapter alumni boards "cutting off communication" with their IHQ, that may signify that they will probably direct (potential) litigation against both the university and their IHQ.

[ChioLu]

Cale Gundy, 1of OU's football coordinators, tweeted out this video response from OU Football HC Bob Stoops: https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=Tpu_Zd7Q1RA

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by thetalady

And the representation by Stephen Jones does NOT include the "song leaders", Pettit and Rice

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/13/us/sae...rnity-fallout/

Thanks for posting the link, thetalady. Contrary to the three-sentence OU Daily article and the KFOR story it relied on, I noted these parts of the CNN story:

Jones told a news conference that he had been retained by the board of trustees—the alumni advisers for the chapter—"to assist them in evaluating certain legal issues and other matters that may impact local chapter of SAE."

There are no plans right now to sue the university, which shut down the chapter's house and disbanded the SAE chapter, he said. . . . .

And

Jones said he is involved to protect the due process and First Amendment rights of members.

[AZTheta]

The Washington Post article published 3/13/15 is worth reading, IMO. Gives a more in depth and detailed view of the hiring of Stephen Jones and some interesting history related to the issues. Also gives some information about SAE HQ's reported plans re: the OU fraternity members.

Not sure how Parker Rice could sue, as he voluntarily withdrew from the University prior to being expelled. Whatever.

[ARKTTKA]

IMO the racist chanting was bad enough ,but these young men went way beyond that when they threatened violence "hanging from a tree". This had to have factored into Boren's decision.

Also, it appears Jones and Boren have history as well.....hmmmm this should be interesting.

Interested to see Kevin's take on Jones/SAE v Boren/OU?

[Nanners52674]

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2015/03/...st-Levi-Pettit

Really loved this response to the "apology" letter the Pettit family wrote on behalf of Levi.

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by Nanners52674

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2015/03/...st-Levi-Pettit

Really loved this response to the "apology" letter the Pettit family wrote on behalf of Levi.

They're not getting their money's worth from the PR firm they are rumored to have hired to manage this crisis for them. All this does is reinforce the opinion that he's a spoiled brat without a concept of taking responsibility for his actions. Mommy and Daddy can't bail him out of everything.

[exlurker]

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...o_bucknel.html

Bucknell reportedly (above) is talking with SAE about delaying the fraternity’s return to the school. The concern that a Bucknell administrator expresses is that it might be difficult or "impossible" for SAE to get a good (re-) start while the Oklahoma chant controversy is going on.

Whether that concern is reasonable or not, I don’t know. When I recall the aftermath of the DZ-DePauw debacle, though, I can well imagine something similar -- a period of perhaps several years where SAE might find it tough to colonize at a lot of places. A big difference of course could be in the differences in the NPC and fraternity processes for extension.

[banditone]

Originally Posted by AZTheta

Double posting: yes, the University can do that, banditone. There's no "trial" involved. Withdrawing recognition = gone, gone, gone. I speak from experience. You are assuming that SAE will prevail, which IMO is not a slam dunk. When the lawyers get involved, it goes to a whole other level, and it will be up to the court(s) to decide the outcome. We're in a new game now.

Pretty obvious that SAE didn't own that property, which surprises me, if they have been there on campus for decades. However, that may be an OU policy - that the University owns all the land/buildings and leases to the fraternities/sororities. I don't know. Kevin?

Not talking about the withdraw of SAE. That can be done easily and without a trial / hearing / whatever - I agree. What I'm talking about is kicking the two guys out of school with no trial.

[Kevin]

Generally at OU, the GLOs own their own homes. SAE was different in that they leased that property from the school. In fact, the previous time they were thrown off of campus, the SAE house was used for administrative offices.

The SAE alumni have retained Stephen Jones, who is a "high profile" attorney who generally represents right-wing causes. They have a decent 1st Amendment claim--one that I'd personally like to see brought to federal court to possibly make some precedent. It would be nice to know the limits of power of public schools to punish conduct or speech they deem offensive.

There's probably a really solid suit for violations of the landlord-tenant act, what with OU summarily booting SAE from their rental property.