Using Frat to further personal agendas

[PHAShriner/1906]

Hotep Brothers. AKA_Monet's beauty, wisdom, and strength has clearly been shown by way of her objectivity not to mention her splendid genes due to a number of MEN of her tribe being of ALPHA and fully exemplifying the SIMPLE EQUATION: MAN + ALPHA=ALPHAMAN. Brothers, this is NOT rocket science. ALPHA PHI ALPHA FRATERNITY, INC. is for MEN, about MEN, and founded by MEN! Stop with the "PC" garbage. I battle w/outside forces on a daily basis that attempt to pollute and contaminate my son w/confusion. He will continue to be SHOWN & TAUGHT MANLY DEEDS along w/the importance of adding strength to his TRIBE by way of BLACK FEMALES only. I have drilled into him the importance that he refrain from dating outside his race, and even though he is in the 8th grade and soon will be embarking upon a private high school that is bound to be full of little "blondie-brats" who will marvel at his BLACK GENETIC GREATNESS (both mental and physical) and proposition him for "white trim" he knows that should he ever think to do otherwise there will be a hefty consequence and price that he will be pay! MANHOOD TRAINING for BLACK BOYS is a MUST! No compromise! PERIOD!

[KSigkid]

So should Sensuret have qualified his announcing his sexuality by saying that Alpha does not generally take gay men? It seems that he was accepted with open arms by his brothers in his chapter.

I agree that sexuality is an issue that all fraternities are facing now as more and more men become comfortable with "coming out of the closet." I know a few fraternities have clause that they do not descriminate on the issue of sexuality; I'm not sure if Alpha does or not, and not being an Alpha, I guess it's really none of my business.

Again, I think that all of us reach a certain point where we feel like we can admit almost anything to our brothers, from our feelings on politics to our personal choices, to those things about us that we are born with (like our sexuality). When someone shares something personal with their brothers, and it is met with almost universal opposition (as well as private comments that are less than flattering), it's reasonable to think that that person may be pushed over the edge.

To answer PHA Shriner's comments; I don't think any of this is "PC" garbage. It's a real point about large difference of opinion that seems to exist on the boards as a whole and in society as a whole. I think it's a worthy conversation to have.

[PHAShriner/1906]

Hotep Brothers. KSigkid, I have read your stated view and I am in total disagreement with your premise of timid like ways insofar BLACK MEN FRATERNAL orders being afraid to DENY and subject individuals w/a "NO" answer due to their sexually wayward & backward ways/tendencies that are in direct CONFLICT w/the overall establishment of the relative fraternal order(s) that a BLACK MAN is attempting to be granted membership. I am a proud member of the PRINCE HALL MASONIC FAMILY(PHA), and I am also a LOYAL PRINCE HALL SHRINER(AEAONMS). I am by far making an attempt to mix apples and oranges, but let me explain a little RULE and MUST that ALL of my fellow PRINCE HALL MASONIC BROTHERS are NEVER too blind to pay CLOSE ATTENTION to. MANHOOD is checked and verified! Yes, it surely is. Take your ACLU jargon and flush it down the toilet, because MANHOOD VERIFICATION will only become more intense due to the fact, that "infiltration" has become a way of life in today's society. I am nearing 20 years of being a SHRINER of which I was blessed to become after being brought into "BLACKMAN ALPHADOM," and I can assure you homosexuality is NOT ACCEPTED! Try bringing your liberal "PC" garbage to my brothers of OKLAHOMA JURISDICTION more especially my MILITARY LODGE BROTHERS who revere the FRATERNALISTIC HISTORY OF THE FRATERNAL BLACKMAN to not be inclusive and accepting of homosexuals, gays, & whatever you so choose to label these individuals, and rest assured that the issue will be dealt with and handled with the "VICTOR" being MANHOOD. As an ALPHAMAN I cannot and will not allow for the splendor of BLACK MANHOOD as promoted through BLACK MEN FRATERNAL ORDERS to be weakened! NEVER! ALPHA PHI ALPHA FRATERNITY, INC. was founded by BLACK MEN! PERIOD. Lastly, I do not condone gay bashing or violence towards any group. I work in the field of Social Services which is dominated and saturated w/alternative lifestyle promotion. I simply stand on my notion that "ADAM is for EVE" not "STEVE."

[KSigkid]

Originally posted by PHAShriner/1906
Hotep Brothers. KSigkid, I have read your stated view and I am in total disagreement with your premise of timid like ways insofar BLACK MEN FRATERNAL orders being afraid to DENY and subject individuals w/a "NO" answer due to their sexually wayward & backward ways/tendencies that are in direct CONFLICT w/the overall establishment of the relative fraternal order(s) that a BLACK MAN is attempting to be granted membership. I am a proud member of the PRINCE HALL MASONIC FAMILY(PHA), and I am also a LOYAL PRINCE HALL SHRINER(AEAONMS). I am by far making an attempt to mix apples and oranges, but let me explain a little RULE and MUST that ALL of my fellow PRINCE HALL MASONIC BROTHERS are NEVER too blind to pay CLOSE ATTENTION to. MANHOOD is checked and verified! Yes, it surely is. Take your ACLU jargon and flush it down the toilet, because MANHOOD VERIFICATION will only become more intense due to the fact, that "infiltration" has become a way of life in today's society. I am nearing 20 years of being a SHRINER of which I was blessed to become after being brought into "BLACKMAN ALPHADOM," and I can assure you homosexuality is NOT ACCEPTED! Try bringing your liberal "PC" garbage to my brothers of OKLAHOMA JURISDICTION more especially my MILITARY LODGE BROTHERS who revere the FRATERNALISTIC HISTORY OF THE FRATERNAL BLACKMAN to not be inclusive and accepting of homosexuals, gays, & whatever you so choose to label these individuals, and rest assured that the issue will be dealt with and handled with the "VICTOR" being MANHOOD. As an ALPHAMAN I cannot and will not allow for the splendor of BLACK MANHOOD as promoted through BLACK MEN FRATERNAL ORDERS to be weakened! NEVER! ALPHA PHI ALPHA FRATERNITY, INC. was founded by BLACK MEN! PERIOD. Lastly, I do not condone gay bashing or violence towards any group. I work in the field of Social Services which is dominated and saturated w/alternative lifestyle promotion. I simply stand on my notion that "ADAM is for EVE" not "STEVE."

Liberal and timid, with ACLU jargon...first time I've been accused of any of those in recent memory.

I'm not telling anyone who Alpha should be taking or not taking, nor am I sitting here telling anyone who they should be taking. I'm not an Alpha, and it's none of my business.

I also didn't realize I was "bringing PC garbage" to anyone; if you'll read my posts, at no point did I say who should and should not be taken. I was responding to Cushite's post and asking my own questions on the issue as a whole.

You can have your own beliefs and opinions, but I would be seriously surprised if there were no homosexual Shriners across the country and across the world. It's obvious from your post that you don't respect my opinion, so my reply to you will end here.

[PHAShriner/1906]

Hotep Brothers. KSigkid, you are right! You are not an Alpha, and ALPHA BUSINESS is NONE of YOURS. Please leave and mind your own business ok little boy. As for your inference that "reverse blasters" are in existence in black male fraternal orders to deny such would be quite naive of me. I am concerned only and about BLACK FRATERNAL ORDERS that promote STRONG BLACK MANHOOD TRAINING, and being a HETEROSEXUAL BLACKMAN I am partial to black male fraternalism, because I have faith and confidence that my BEAUTIFUL BLACK QUEENS can conduct their respective BLACK WOMANHOOD TRAINING as well. You have no knowledge of what BLACK FRATERNAL ORDERS allude to and the manner in which they are truly cherished amongst members of the BLACK NATION. You can revert back to your kind, and I shall surely do the same for mine. I can assure you I have a thorough base of proof that can support my statements with regards to "flaming boys" trying to pretend being MEN in my various fraternal affiliations for BLACK MEN. In the meantime the "flaming boys" are always knowing that they had better dare not try to bring forth their alternative lifestyle to the masses of us HETEROSEXUAL FRATERNAL MEMBERS for the purpose of advocacy and cosignment; because they know what will happen(you go figure). BLACK MANHOOD is to not be compromised ever! Period. If a BLACK MAN is willing to substitute a BLACK WOMAN for a BLACK MAN for sheer excitement, pleasure, therapy, along w/spiritual, physical, mental enjoyment and need he is either DEAD or SICK! The BLACK MAN is neither! The BLACK MAN is ALIVE and HEALTHY. The BLACK MAN protects, loves, honors, and cherishes the BLACK WOMAN. For all of YOU BEAUTIFUL BLACK WOMEN who have read this attestment please take notice of the FACT, that AN ALPHAMAN IS A REAL MAN! An ALPHAMAN knows the greatness of the BLACKWOMAN. I am happily married to a BLACKWOMAN who I could never imagine trading for a hardleg! Are you crazy?

PS. Oprah, I hope you have read this!

[KSigkid]

Originally posted by PHAShriner/1906
Hotep Brothers. KSigkid, you are right! You are not an Alpha, and ALPHA BUSINESS is NONE of YOURS. Please leave and mind your own business ok little boy. As for your inference that "reverse blasters" are in existence in black male fraternal orders to deny such would be quite naive of me. I am concerned only and about BLACK FRATERNAL ORDERS that promote STRONG BLACK MANHOOD TRAINING, and being a HETEROSEXUAL BLACKMAN I am partial to black male fraternalism, because I have faith and confidence that my BEAUTIFUL BLACK QUEENS can conduct their respective BLACK WOMANHOOD TRAINING as well. You have no knowledge of what BLACK FRATERNAL ORDERS allude to and the manner in which they are truly cherished amongst members of the BLACK NATION. You can revert back to your kind, and I shall surely do the same for mine. I can assure you I have a thorough base of proof that can support my statements with regards to "flaming boys" trying to pretend being MEN in my various fraternal affiliations for BLACK MEN. In the meantime the "flaming boys" are always knowing that they had better dare not try to bring forth their alternative lifestyle to the masses of us HETEROSEXUAL FRATERNAL MEMBERS for the purpose of advocacy and cosignment; because they know what will happen(you go figure). BLACK MANHOOD is to not be compromised ever! Period. If a BLACK MAN is willing to substitute a BLACK WOMAN for a BLACK MAN for sheer excitement, pleasure, therapy, along w/spiritual, physical, and mental enjoyment and need he is either DEAD or SICK! The BLACK MAN is neither! The BLACK MAN loves, honors, and cherishes the BLACK WOMAN. For all of YOU BEAUTIFUL BLACK WOMEN who have read this attestment please take notice of the FACT, that AN ALPHAMAN IS A REAL MAN! An ALPHAMAN knows the greatness of the BLACKWOMAN. I am happily married to a BLACKWOMAN who I could never imagine trading for a hardleg! Are you crazy?

Again, I have never made any claims in any of my posts about what any organization should or should not do. I'm not going to leave this discussion or this board simply because you say so, though. This board as well as all of the other boards on GC are open to everyone. I will continue to post in discussions I find interesting, wherever they may be.

I have not criticized Alpha or its members; I have only brought up a different point of view.

Thanks for calling me "little boy" though...do we have to resort to calling names?

[ladygreek]

ACLU jargon? Then also let's take away the ACLU jargon that says civil liberties are for everyone and not just White men.

<----- a proud member and employee of the ACLU of Minnesota.

[Munchkin03]

Why does "manhood" have to be discussed? Just because someone is gay, he is no less of a man than a heterosexual.

All this talk of "manhood" leads me to believe that there's some insecurity with how certain people perceive their masculinity, and that it's easily threatened. But that's just me.

[RACooper]

Originally posted by PHAShriner/1906
Hotep Brothers. KSigkid, you are right! You are not an Alpha, and ALPHA BUSINESS is NONE of YOURS. Please leave and mind your own business ok little boy. As for your inference that "reverse blasters" are in existence in black male fraternal orders to deny such would be quite naive of me. I am concerned only and about BLACK FRATERNAL ORDERS that promote STRONG BLACK MANHOOD TRAINING, and being a HETEROSEXUAL BLACKMAN I am partial to black male fraternalism, because I have faith and confidence that my BEAUTIFUL BLACK QUEENS can conduct their respective BLACK WOMANHOOD TRAINING as well. You have no knowledge of what BLACK FRATERNAL ORDERS allude to and the manner in which they are truly cherished amongst members of the BLACK NATION. You can revert back to your kind, and I shall surely do the same for mine. I can assure you I have a thorough base of proof that can support my statements with regards to "flaming boys" trying to pretend being MEN in my various fraternal affiliations for BLACK MEN. In the meantime the "flaming boys" are always knowing that they had better dare not try to bring forth their alternative lifestyle to the masses of us HETEROSEXUAL FRATERNAL MEMBERS for the purpose of advocacy and cosignment; because they know what will happen(you go figure). BLACK MANHOOD is to not be compromised ever! Period. If a BLACK MAN is willing to substitute a BLACK WOMAN for a BLACK MAN for sheer excitement, pleasure, therapy, along w/spiritual, physical, mental enjoyment and need he is either DEAD or SICK! The BLACK MAN is neither! The BLACK MAN is ALIVE and HEALTHY. The BLACK MAN protects, loves, honors, and cherishes the BLACK WOMAN. For all of YOU BEAUTIFUL BLACK WOMEN who have read this attestment please take notice of the FACT, that AN ALPHAMAN IS A REAL MAN! An ALPHAMAN knows the greatness of the BLACKWOMAN. I am happily married to a BLACKWOMAN who I could never imagine trading for a hardleg! Are you crazy?

PS. Oprah, I hope you have read this!

While the rest of the posts in this thread have been insightful and intelligent... I suspect that it is posts like this that were at the root of Sensuret publically distancing himself from the GC Alpha Phi Alpha community.

The discussion was centring around the question of whether or not a personal agenda was behind any of the postings earlier - to which I would say no. Sunsuret posted on the forum looking for support because of the negative reactions he had recieved - but he found instead that his "Brothers" on this board where some of the haters...

To me this has shown a ironic reversal - specifically that some "people" on this site have chosen to use Alpha Phi Alpha to further their own agenda's of intolerance. They have been the ones publically and privately slamming Sunsuret for "betraying" or "destroying" the Brotherhood at the heart of Alpha Phi Alpha; and they have been the ones most vocally promoting their own agendas (as witnessed by PHAShriner/1906's posts)... so why are they not subject to the same level of scrutiny or discussion?

[ladygreek]

Originally posted by Munchkin03
Why does "manhood" have to be discussed? Just because someone is gay, he is no less of a man than a heterosexual.

All this talk of "manhood" leads me to believe that there's some insecurity with how certain people perceive their masculinity, and that it's easily threatened. But that's just me.

CO-SIGN!!!!

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by RACooper
While the rest of the posts in this thread have been insightful and intelligent... I suspect that it is posts like this that were at the root of Sensuret publically distancing himself from the GC Alpha Phi Alpha community.

The discussion was centring around the question of whether or not a personal agenda was behind any of the postings earlier - to which I would say no. Sunsuret posted on the forum looking for support because of the negative reactions he had recieved - but he found instead that his "Brothers" on this board where some of the haters...

To me this has shown a ironic reversal - specifically that some "people" on this site have chosen to use Alpha Phi Alpha to further their own agenda's of intolerance. They have been the ones publically and privately slamming Sunsuret for "betraying" or "destroying" the Brotherhood at the heart of Alpha Phi Alpha; and they have been the ones most vocally promoting their own agendas (as witnessed by PHAShriner/1906's posts)... so why are they not subject to the same level of scrutiny or discussion?

Look Mr. Cooper,

I'm going to try to explain this again--except I'm going to try to be as civil as I can.
1. EVERYONE, no matter how extensive or limited their experience, has an opinion; and it's okay to have a different one.
2. EVERY organization has it's stated purpose and rules governing membership and it's target market for members; yet we all must comply with federal rules on discrimination. Despite this reality, you know as well as I do that there are people you hope never become a member of your fraternity. We all have
undesireables we have to deal with.
3. The answer to the question of whether Senusret I used his membership to advance his own personal agenda is clear: yes he did; and he is not alone. Hell; every now and then people who are not ALPHAs come on our board selling stuff, trying to get us to attend an event, etc.
I think his sexuality became part of the discussion for several reasons: reasons like the content of his book and how Alpha Phi Alpha could be perceived of as a result of his presentation of us.

He may be a good guy, and I believe him to be so; but MY problem is the fact that my fraternity is FOR MEN, not for gay dudes. He knew this, and sought membership anyway. Brother PHAShriner/1906 mentioned the word "infiltration", and that's exactly what has happened to us. And MOST people posting to this thread seem to have more pity for this dude than RESPECT for our illustrious fraternity. I understand the value of being PC; but at the expense of being true to yourself and your fraternal beliefs?

I admit being more than rude to Senusret I; but he has not represented my fraternity on these boards and others the way A TRUE BROTHER would. He would introduce himself and say he is a member of ALPHA PHI ALPHA (as if that fact was like a ticket to be accepted amongst those on the board he would be chatting with), then proceed flashing his homosexuality as if he were celebrating a successful infiltration. I don't feel proud at all for some of my responses, but I really believe he deserved getting "publicly and privately slammed by his own brothers". THIS IS THE ALPHA PHI ALPHA FORUM, mainly for ALPHAS; where we discuss ALPHA BUSINESS with brothers. Yall know the rules. Respect is earned; not given. If you want it; give it.

[KSigkid]

Originally posted by The Original Ape
Yall know the rules. Respect is earned; not given. If you want it; give it.

True...and I feel I came to this board with respect but was not treated as such by one of the members. I did not, in any of my posts, suggest anything about Alpha as a whole or make any claims of what anyone should do. It was indeed a respectful conversation until a few posts ago.

I simply made the statement that I did not think that Sensuret used his fraternity affiliation to advance agenda, nor did I think he suggested any sort of "infiltration." He had been accepted by his chapter, and thought that the acceptance would translate to his brothers here on the board.

Again, this isn't to tell Alpha's how to do anything...I was just expressing my idea.

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by KSigkid
True...and I feel I came to this board with respect but was not treated as such by one of the members. I did not, in any of my posts, suggest anything about Alpha as a whole or make any claims of what anyone should do. It was indeed a respectful conversation until a few posts ago.

I simply made the statement that I did not think that Sensuret used his fraternity affiliation to advance agenda, nor did I think he suggested any sort of "infiltration." He had been accepted by his chapter, and thought that the acceptance would translate to his brothers here on the board.

Again, this isn't to tell Alpha's how to do anything...I was just expressing my idea.

Hi KSigKid,

Allow me, if you will, to suggest something: and that is, that ALL of us go back and read the thread that was stopped, and then read the beginning of this one. Pay attention the tone you and others (including my self) used in expressing our views. Do you see any trends? Did you notice how some people responded without reading a person's entire post? Is it possible from your eyes to see how Shriner 1906 and myself could respond defensively? Have you ever had to hold your tongue for the sake of peace and harmony in one of your meetings?

[Professor]

I can only make a decision as a moderator at this. Bro. Senuret and his reasons for membership, his measure of a man and his intentions are not appropriate for debate. This Brother is a person and I'm sure he has feelings just as we do.