Teen sues over Confederate flag prom dress

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
I do believe in freedom of speech, but I think there's a time and a place for it.

This may be the stupidest thing I've ever read on GC. If there is a limit on times and places, it isn't free.

[ThetaPrincess24]

Originally posted by DeltaBetaBaby
This may be the stupidest thing I've ever read on GC. If there is a limit on times and places, it isn't free.

agreed

[Phasad1913]

Well, I happen to agree with PM Mama.There is a time and a place for everything and I think she is referring to tactfullness and respect for others. Sure people have the freedom to express whatever views they have but at some point everyone has to realize that we all have different backgrounds, histories and cultures and if we are all going to live here together in a civil and peaceful society, then people need to exercise some restraint in the things they do and say. This in no way limits free speech, which again, is a concept that pertains to limiting powers of the STATE over the citizens of this country, not necessarily between individuals, but there should be some socially imposed notions of what people SHOULD and SHOULD NOT do or say. If a person decides to go on and say or do what they want, fine, but there should be limits...if for no other reason than for that person's own sense of dignity.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

As long as you are not infringing on another's rights, it remains free. They can ignore it all they want, and if you make an a$$ of yourself, so be it.

[Shortfuse]

Originally posted by Phasad1913
racism is racism. the confederate flag, the confederacy and everything pertaining to had to do with race then and it has to do with it now.

Also remember the men who fought under that flag were traitors.

[FHwku]

Originally posted by Shortfuse
Also remember the men who fought under that flag were traitors.

nuh-uh.

[Shortfuse]

Originally posted by FHwku
nuh-uh.

They took up arms against our government (which they lived under) and their generals led armies against the US (a country where most of them swore allegience to)

[Reds6]

Originally posted by Coramoor
Do we have any history majors here...?

There were a lot of issues involved in the Civil War/Confederates. Hell, it goes all the way back to before the Constitution was written. The main reason for that the South left was because they were very anti-federalist. They wanted greater state powers, while the northerners wanted a stronger centeral gov't. Hell, 'a' civil war was averted many times before 1860. There was a lot of tension there for over 40 yrs. Slavery was involved in it-but don't think that those in the north really cared about slaves. The immigrants that passed through New York Cities harbor were treated just as bad.

That is vast simplifying the entire issue-but the key issue was their views on gov't. That is what sparked the Civil War. The Confederate Flag represents southern culture and history, not slavery or racisim.

I truly believe that the civil war wasn't completely about slavery and I'm pretty sure most northerners probably didn't give two shitts about slavery either. But I also know being black and growing up in the south, I knew that where I say that flag fly was a place I wasn't welcomed and probably wasn't safe going. I remember a neighbor hanging the flag and allowing their dogs to chase black kids down the street, if you walked past their house. Many blacks remember images of the Klan waving the flag and they spouted their white supremacy views. The flag represents a South when blacks where not considered free or equal. The flag may have originated as a symbol of pride for the South, but grew into something so much more, which is a symbol for hate.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally posted by DeltaBetaBaby
As long as you are not infringing on another's rights, it remains free. They can ignore it all they want, and if you make an a$$ of yourself, so be it.

For one, thanks for the respect, sister. I heart my opinions being called stupid.

So, it's ok for me to run around yelling "fuckity fuck fuck motherfucker" in front of a mother with little children? Or at school? I think with our freedoms, such as freedom of speech, yes there is a time and place as a matter of respecting the people around us.

[Shortfuse]

Originally posted by Reds6
I truly believe that the civil war wasn't completely about slavery and I'm pretty sure most northerners probably didn't give two shitts about slavery either. But I also know being black and growing up in the south, I knew that where I say that flag fly was a place I wasn't welcomed and probably wasn't safe going. I remember a neighbor hanging the flag and allowing their dogs to chase black kids down the street, if you walked past their house. Many blacks remember images of the Klan waving the flag and they spouted their white supremacy views. The flag represents a South when blacks where not considered free or equal. The flag may have originated as a symbol of pride for the South, but grew into something so much more, which is a symbol for hate.

Exactly, look the children of the confederacy had a chance to legitimize the confederate flag a LOOOOONNNNGGG TIME AGO. But most sat with their hands under their arse while Neo-Nazis and the KKK waived the flag and preached hate for over a century. If they were SO concerned about the history and the heritage they wouldn't allow blacks being disrespected or murdered while that flag was showing. They wouldn't let hate mongers like the KKK or any other white supremacy group disrespect their flag. But they didn't and therefore that flag should never be welcome in this country.


Oh and the fact that it's a flag of treason.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by Shortfuse
Also remember the men who fought under that flag were traitors.

Who were never, to the best of my knowledge, tried and convicted as such. Who were allowed to return to their homes and families. Who were allowed to keep their side arms and animals.

Many of whom were honored by President Lincoln and General Grant. Many of whom went on to serve the United States in subsequent wars.

If you want to bandy about the word "traitor," go back a few years to the founders of our country who rebelled against England. They were "traitors," too under your definition.

Had the South won, would they still be "traitors?"

Many were highly conflicted men who fought for their homeland -- which they saw as their state as opposed to the United States.

President Lincoln and others who followed chose to heal the scars of war -- not rub salt into them.

He and they were right.

I don't support or defend the young woman in question -- although I don't know her motives good or bad. However, this dress seems a really stupid thing to do to me. At the best in really bad taste -- at the worst, totally racist.

To call those who fought in the Confederate Army "traitors" goes too far, though, when judged by history.

Finally, whomever mentioned it above is right -- the catalyst for the Civil War may have been slavery, but the real reason for the conflict was states rights -- one side dictating laws and morality to the other. Despite who was right.

[Shortfuse]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Who were never, to the best of my knowledge, tried and convicted as such. Who were allowed to return to their homes and families. Who were allowed to keep their side arms and animals.

If you want to bandy about the word "traitor," go back a few years to the founders of our country who rebelled against England. They were "traitors," too under your definition.

Had the South won, would they still be "traitors?"

Many were highly conflicted men who fought for their homeland -- which they saw as their state as opposed to the United States.

President Lincoln and others who followed chose to heal the scars of war -- not rub salt into them.

He and they were right.

But the South didn't win.


By the way who is this they that you're speaking of?

I also notice that you didn't argue my other points but I will indulge you.

What do you call American citizens that pick up arms against the flag?

I'm not English so how the English view the founding fathers (the 4th of July is a holiday DRENCHED IN HYPOCRISY<see American Indian and Slavery for clarification>) so it's not a issue with me. But since you went there, I guess you can call them traitors. *shrug*


Choosing not to rub salt into the scars of war doesn't lift the cloud of guilt from citizens who chose to take up arms against the United States. Would you be sooooo quick to forgive citizens who pick up arms against the country now? I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't be.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hold grudges against them but, they are what they are.

Alot of these men who led them are traitors because they left the army (after they took a oath of allegience) to fight against the flag. Men like Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis, and Stonewall Jackson.


As a man who served under this great flag, I see any attempt to "romanticize" the confederate army as a treachous to the level of people hailing Bin Laden as a hero.

[HotDamnImAPhiMu]

Did you just compare bin Laden to members of the Confederate Army? Wow. Maybe check on cnn.com and brush up a little on your international news.

[HotDamnImAPhiMu]

Originally posted by PM_Mama00
For one, thanks for the respect, sister. I heart my opinions being called stupid.

So, it's ok for me to run around yelling "fuckity fuck fuck motherfucker" in front of a mother with little children? Or at school? I think with our freedoms, such as freedom of speech, yes there is a time and place as a matter of respecting the people around us.

A better example would be yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre.

And, you're right, that was kind of ridiculous for her to respond with "THAT'S THE STUPIDEST THING I'VE EVER READ ON GC."

[Shortfuse]

Originally posted by HotDamnImAPhiMu
Did you just compare bin Laden to members of the Confederate Army? Wow. Maybe check on cnn.com and brush up a little on your international news.

And maybe you should brush up on terrorism.
Or only Muslims(read non-whites) can be terrorist?

Well since the Sons and Daughters of the Confederacy stood by while Blacks were brutal murdered by Klansman (under that FLAG) then I think it's the same thing. Both operated under terrorism to achieve it's purpose.

Like I said the Confederacy had it's chance to legitimize itself during this time of terror and did nothing about it. Nobody came out to denounce the Klans operation and I've yet to hear formal apologies for it. So tell me, what should be said about it?