Kids' School Supplies

[GeekyPenguin]

Maybe it's because I went to a Catholic school with tuition out the wazoo until junior high, but those lists all look perfectly reasonable to me. Quite frankly I kind of wish my professors would still give us school supply lists because you never know if it's going to be a handout class, a strict recitation, or whatever.

It's all well and good to complain about the community chest when you're well off - but imagine how you would feel if you were the little girl in class who didn't have crayons because her mom was irresponsible and bought beer instead. That's not a six year olds fault. I hate kids and I can see that.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by AGDee

I just did some figuring...

$7900 per student x 25 students per class= 197,500 per classroom.
Teacher's salary + benefits (usually add 19% of salary for benefits)= (average, based on Master's Degreed teachers in Michigan)=$75,000
If they are providing nothing but toilet paper and dry erase markers/erasers to a classroom, then they can't be spending more than $300 a year on supplies.

That leaves $122,200 per classroom per year x 20 classrooms per school = 2,444,000. And that leads to my questions.. where is this money going???? I'm just going to have to find out.

Well, beyond teachers, there are school board members, coaches, lunchladies and janitors to hire (to start with!). There's the physical body of the school to maintain and repair -- do have any idea how much it costs to heat a school building, for example? There's the textbooks (often much more expensive than you would expect), lab equipment, computers and software, gym equipment, art class supplies, and library books, to name only a few things.

Honestly, we all know our schools are underfunded, right? Why does this come as a surprise to so many of you?

[WCUgirl]

Originally posted by AGDee
Teacher's salary + benefits (usually add 19% of salary for benefits)= (average, based on Master's Degreed teachers in Michigan)=$75,000

Holy crap! I had no idea the teachers were paid that well up there. My mom has been teaching for 43 years, has her Master's degree and her guidance certification, and she is at the top of the salary scale at $52,000ish.

My mom would always take my toys that I didn't use anymore and use them in her classroom. Sometimes she would take something I still liked and use it for a couple of days, but she would always tell the kids that they had to return it to her in perfect condition b/c it belonged to her daughter.

There have been several times when my mom went out and would buy clothes for children b/c they didn't have any. A lot of my clothes that I outgrew would go to children at her school as well.

I know many mornings she would spend her own $$$ to buy the kids breakfast. She never complained though. None of those things that she purchased were mandatory - she did it because she felt bad for the kids, and it was her way of going the extra mile to make life a little bit better for them, if only for a moment.

Likewise, my father was a P.E. teacher. He purchased many footballs, basketballs and kickballs out of his own pocket for the kids to have to play with. He bought a dartboard (with the plastic darts) for the kids to play w/ when it was raining outside. A lot of the stuff he just left at the school when he retired as a donation. I mean seriously, who needs 25 kickballs lying around their house?

[Lexicon]

Originally posted by Munchkin03
Also, in any job, you'll often have to put your own money towards work-related expenses. I'm not whining about having to buy a $900 copy of Quark XPress...it's called professional development, baby.

I know we're getting heated, and there are always three sides to any situation. But what you may spend professional development will, in the end, come back to you financially with your improved efficiency, knowledge increase, promotions, bonuses, etc. What we spend in a given week is altruistic, for youth development, in an already strapped area, and it's an endless drain.

For me, it's sixth grade. And believe me, the kids lose those 2-4 pencils a week, if not by dropping them, pencil-fighting, or theft, let's be honest. When I got to my assignment, the supplies I was given were 2 pens, a box of paper clips, 2 boxes of pencils, two boxes of chalk, the daily attendance sheets, and a class list that just keeps increasing. It's the first week of school and I've already had to buy hand sanitizer, copy paper, pens, a pencil sharpener, trays, tape, everything all the parents were probably asked for. i'm also combing through my apt for the rest of what I might need for two weeks, until payday. And it's still not enough.

Yes, folks shell out for their jobs. But it's apples and oranges. And no one should attempt to throw "suck it ups" at people. Let's all recognize that everyone isn't on easy street, parents nor teachers. But often what we ask for is not capricious. The color coding is important when you have a diverse groups of children, some of whom are ESOL, or special needs. Not everyone is as developed as I'm sure all of your angels are.

I'm not as upset as my compatriots, but I empathize.

[Lexicon]

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
I hate kids and I can see that.

I don't know why, but this cracks me up!

[AOIIalum]

Trust me, I'm not going to bash teachers. I've been an active PTA/PTO member at numerous schools in the past 9 years. I've run school fundraisers, served as a room parent and done hands on volunteering in classrooms. I've also campaigned for and voted for about three various school levies in the barely three years we've lived here. There's *never* enough money for education.

I will happily bash a school that for whatever reason doesn't provide at least a basic school supply list of what an "Xth grader at ABC school" needs before the first day of school. There's really no reason for it, especially when the supply lists remain pretty much the same from year to year. It makes things really difficult for any parent, regardless of their bank account!

[Senusret I]

Hey Lexicon, I didn't know you were teaching now!

I am a long-term substitute for a first grade class. Since the teacher has been out on maternity leave, I basically get to plan the whole year, the classroom, etc. (See my thread about the black and gold bulletin boards, )

Me and the other first grade teacher are part of the Early Childhood Team. Usually split up into grade levels, it's just easier to lump us all together administratively since we're so small. (1 Pre-K, 2 K, 2 first grade)

I pretty much depended on the other teacher to generate the supply list, and I think it's reasonable. Folders, crayons, pencils, a three prong notebook with looseleaf paper as well as composition books. (We decided to phase out the composition books slowly, but we are still requiring two or so.)

The only "community" item we strongly suggested was a box of Kleenex. (Please believe Kleenex is a hot commodity in DC, where everybody has some sort of respiratory problems, including allergies, asthma, chronic bronchitis, etc.)

I consider my school to be "needy"....not as much as other schools, but the majority do qualify for free or reduced lunch, and there is some drug activity in the community.

HOWEVER....we definitely don't require two of everything for everyone....our faculty is very in tuned with the community and the PTA is constantly doing fundraisers for the school. If a student has needs, another parent or teacher might pick up the slack by choice.

Hell, in fact, this one time last year one of the sixth graders got teased so bad about his hair, I was going to offer to take him to the salon to get it cornrowed. I don't know what happened, I think I got talked out of it.

Anyway....it's all for the kids, god bless em.

[AGDee]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
Well, beyond teachers, there are school board members, coaches, lunchladies and janitors to hire (to start with!). There's the physical body of the school to maintain and repair -- do have any idea how much it costs to heat a school building, for example? There's the textbooks (often much more expensive than you would expect), lab equipment, computers and software, gym equipment, art class supplies, and library books, to name only a few things.

Honestly, we all know our schools are underfunded, right? Why does this come as a surprise to so many of you?

I know that they can't buy and provide everything, but, it's an elementary school.. lunch ladies are parent volunteers, there are two janitors, one on days, one on afternoons, no coaches, no labs. The PTA bought the computers. They do have to pay for software and text books and of course heat, water, electricity. And the secretary. It still seems a little out of whack. Personally, I think that soap and dictionaries should be a higher priority than software, gym equipment and art supplies. I'm thinking there is some fluff in the budget somewhere. I honestly and truly don't think teachers should have to provide all that out of pocket either.

AXiD670: I took that figure from a local newspaper article that I posted in the Careers forum. Michigan does pay teachers much more than most states. I have friends in Tennesee and Kentucky who teach with their Masters and make half that. I also added 19% to the base salary to cover benefits, so they aren't taking home that amount, but it's what it costs the school.

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by Munchkin03
But, don't you think it's a little odd that parents have to provide two of everything, in some cases, for students whose parents can't provide? If that's true...it bothers me.

I guess it depends on the quality and funding of the school systems involved.

You know, it really doesn't bother me. When I owned a condo and had to pay property taxes in a reasonably upscale suburb of Chicago, I never complained about it even though I don't have kids who benefitted from the money that went toward the schools. I don't have a problem with the parents who obtain a direct benefit from the public schools that educate their children being asked to contribute a little more. That seems pretty reasonable to me.

[Glitter650]

Elementary school we gor I think pretty much everything... pencils (the big fat ones) erasers paper provided we just needed maybe a set of crayons and markers and folder or binder (I had very cool trapper keepers ) Then middle school we needed binders, dividers, paper, pencils pens etc... but we never had to donate anything to the classroom that I remember and our stuff could be any color we wanted (well the outside the ink in our pens had to be blue or black) In high school the most expensive thing I had to buy was a graphing calculator for any math class above Algebra 2 which was about 100 dollars. I still have it though (not that I remember how to use it or anything).

[AXO_MOM_3]

I too am not out to bash teachers - they have a tough job and I respect them tremendously. I pay taxes every year to pay for my children's educations. I don't think I should have to supplement all the children whose parents choose not to buy for them. In our system, if parents cannot afford items, the system or other donations make sure that kids have what they need. Every Walmart, Target, and office supply store has lists and donation boxes set up for people to contribute to for students that need it. Each year when we have gone to donate, those areas seem to be overflowing. Why does this community chest not make it to the classroom?

Our school has a wish list of needed supplies that I usually contribute to. I donate our used bookbags and lunch boxes for those less fortunate. I buy extra supplies on the teacher's wish list at the beginning of the year and buy books for the classroom at the yearly bookfair.

I more or less quit participating in the majority of fundraisers. If it requires that my child go out and sell something, I would prefer to make a flat donation and have the school get $20.00 instead of 20% of $20.00. The problem with pictures are that my children want to buy them so they can exchange them with all their buddies. Our system does pictures twice a year - two different companies. It seems that the moment my children go back to school we are bombarded weekly with requests for money for this or that or fundraisers and everything else under the sun.

I am on board with the complaints against the teacher appreciation week too where you are supposed to buy a different gift each day. We generally buy gifts at Christmas, and the end of the year. That alone should be enough to let the teacher know that we appreciate them. Spending time at home overseeing homework, good character traits and appropriate classroom behavior should show appreciation for the teacher. Helping out in the classroom periodically should show appreciation. I get irked when I'm expected to go out and buy gifts for appreciation week. And it is not like you have just one teacher - most classrooms in our district have two teachers per classroom - a lead teacher and an assistant. Then you have the music, art, pe, and spanish teacher that should also be appreciated. If I had just one child, perhaps a daily gift might be feasible. But I have three, and 10 teachers to appreciate per child, five days for the appreciation week, Christmas and end of the year gets expensive in a hurry.

I don't think this thread is intended to be a parent against the teachers thing. I think it is about is this the norm, and if so, why, and what can we do about it?

Lonestaradpi - thanks for explaining some other uses of the baggies - I had not thought about those.

[carnation]

We like teachers--we ARE teachers! But like any other parents, we're frustrated with the supplies and fundraisers issues.

AXO Mom, the picture issue is getting bad here too. Not only are there suddenly 2 rounds of picture taking here now, but some years the companies require that you pay before your kids' pictures are even taken. They claim you can get a refund if you don't like the pictures but trying to get one is a real headache. And we know that half of all children have their eyes shut in their pictures!

Another school scam: one magazine that gives the teachers prizes if you'll either subscribe to them or fill out an info sheet on yourself if you don't subscribe. Then they send you junk mail for years. The prizes must be fantastic because we even though we caught onto that business and quit filling out the forms, we still get their junk mail and we think the teachers have been filling them out for us.

[cash78mere]

i've never heard of donating an extra set of supplies for needy students. i think that is RIDICULOUS if it is not voluntary. just be sure though that that is exactly what it is. i ask my students to bring in 4 glue sticks (not ELmers glue--too messy) not so i can donate 2, but so that when we use them up or someone leaves the cap off and it dries up we have another one handy and don't have to ask the mom's for a new one.

i really wish i could explain the colored folder thing so you all could understand. it really is a GREAT system and helps things run smoothly. and (most) teachers definitely understand if you can't find purple and will give you time to find it.

also, my school has recently implemented a new phonics and guided reading programs. guess what that means---2 more notebooks and 2 more folders to buy for parents. bringing the total up to like 5 notebooks and 4 folders.--not unreasonable for an elementary classroom.

my school sends home it's supply list in June with the report cards and kindergarten lists get mailed home. that gives over 2 months to get the supplies. it states on top that the teacher may ask for other items for her class, since it is a general grade list, but we definitely give time to get those supplies.

if people want the school to supply paper, crayons, etc expect your tax dollars to go up. and it won't go up with the actual cost of buying those items on your own. it will probably increase greatly due to supplies being different throughout the grades. i don't see how that can be worth it.

about fiskars--they are the BEST. many parents don't understand the difference and go to the dollar store to buy the dollar scissors. they break. they have a dull edge. basically they stink. just spend the $3 and get over it. and if your child is losing 3 per year, it's time to talk about personal responsibility and personal property. it is not the teacher's job to keep track of the student's supplies. even in kindergarten. last year when i taught K, my kids knew that anything left on the floor would be swept up by the custodian and that i would not pick it up for them. it is not the custodian's job to pick through the garbage he sweeps up. if little johhny's brand new fiskars are on the floor, they will be in the garbage. it's called responsibility.

i use baggies for EVERYTHING--treats, centers, little pieces of things, etc. they are used up by the end of the year.

remember that teachers don't send home school picture brochures and fund raisers, the PTA does. bring up gripes with them.

clipboards--the kids work in the hall and in groups and it helps keep the work neat and organized. plus they love using them!

**********************************************
the biggest thing to keep in mind. in 99.99% of the cases, the requests of the teacher are for the BENEFIT OF YOUR CHILD.

the teacher does not arbitrarily choose what to put on a supply list. she has probably been teaching for YEARS and knows exactly what is best and what is really needed. i don't think $40 for a year of good education is unreasonable at all.

and yes, many times the kids know for days or weeks that they need something and then put the blame on the teacher when they forget to ask mom to get it. stop thinking your kids are always right (especially in middle and high school). don't march down to the principal's office because it may get the teacher in trouble for something she didn't do. and don't write a heated letter to the teacher or be nasty to her, ask her nicely to explain the situation and i would say 4 out of 5 times it was a simple mix up.

[AOIIalum]

Originally posted by cash78mere
they forget to ask mom to get it. stop thinking your kids are always right (especially in middle and high school). don't march down to the principal's office because it may get the teacher in trouble for something she didn't do. and don't write a heated letter to the teacher or be nasty to her, ask her nicely to explain the situation and i would say 4 out of 5 times it was a simple mix up.

As a non-teaching parent of middle schoolers, I thought this part was worth quoting and repeating! It is so important to contact your children's teachers if you have questions--especially once they hit middle and high school!

[Munchkin03]

Has any parent (teaching or non) had an experience where one teacher requires more "stuff" than others in the same grade level?

Does this whole supply issue depend on the wealth of the district? 'Cause I know my niece and nephew don't have to bring all the stuff in that's listed. But, my parents and my sister pay for that stuff through their property taxes--which are among the highest in the state.

I don't mind the giving of extra things--if it's true that it's involuntary and it's not open that this is what it's for, then THAT'S a problem of the teacher/school/district not communicating with the parents/guardians. If you tell me what it is, I'll be more than happy to give.

Do any schools require a set of supplies for home, and a set for school? I know that's pretty popular in my hometown so kids won't lose stuff in transit or leave important supplies at home or school.