VH-1 Honors Hip Hop: - Page 3

abaici · #1 10-16-2004, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Imperial1
I am dead serious now when I say he's the most overrated rapper EVER!

We will just have to agree to disagree. Now, I'm not coming from the perspective of the "clear people" who jocked him. Tupac was more than just a rapper. That's why I put him on a little higher pedestal than other rappers. Like, I think it's blasphemous to compare him to Biggie. That's like comparing apples and oranges. Pac had a political consciousness that his contemporaries didn't have. Not in the Chuck D kinda way, but the way that the guy who lives down the block from you views the world. I think he brought something different to the table. When I think about the contributions and influence of Tupac, I come from an academic point of view. But, I also remember me as a teenager watching the BET Show with Tonya Hart and listening to a 19-year old 2PAC speak. I remember thinking, "Dang, I've never seen ANYONE like him before!"

***Now, I freakin' late to class!!!***

ladylike · #2 10-17-2004, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by abaici
When I think about the contributions and influence of Tupac, I come from an academic point of view.

What were his contributions? I've never bought any of Tupac's albums and what I knew of him was constructed from his interviews and some of his videos. I actually would like to understand more about him and why he has become this larger than life figure. No disrespect but to me just another rapper who happened to have his life taken away from him too soon. I would like to see and understand what it is his fans see.

As for the show it is my hope that if they have another one that women will play an integral part of it and while rap is pretty much male dominated (and a LOT of times misogyistic) there were some sistas who kicked down doors.

RedefinedDiva · #3 10-17-2004, 01:08 PM

Pac is a bit overrated. But then again, I am a Biggie fan TO DEATH!

Pac did have a politcal consciousness like no other rapper, but TO ME it was overshadowed by all the other foolishness. I mean, when Pac was on serious tips and dropping knowledge, I loved him. However, he often flipped the script once he was in the company of Shug, Snoop, and 'nem. How you gonna drop knowledge and seem so focused, but in the next second, all you can talk about is money, murder, and sleeping with people's wives (referring to the alleged Faith Evans incident). Most of that nonsense took away my respect for him. He was tight back in the day. Signing to Death Row was the death of Pac.

Imperial1 · #4 10-17-2004, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ladylike
What were his contributions? I've never bought any of Tupac's albums and what I knew of him was constructed from his interviews and some of his videos. I actually would like to understand more about him and why he has become this larger than life figure. No disrespect but to me just another rapper who happened to have his life taken away from him too soon. I would like to see and understand what it is his fans see.

I agree with this. I mean like what's the point of studying his lyrics in classes? It ain't like his stuff was hard to understand. People give him too much credit for stuff that Public Enemy, Rakim and KRS-ONE has said in a more advanced way, WAY before 2pac's time. i.e. Do yall remember that KRS-ONE joint that went like "WHOOP, WHOOP! That's the sound of the police!"

Now which one of Pac's songs are more advanced lyrically than that KRS song I just referenced?

Imperial1

#5 10-17-2004, 02:52 PM

I loved Nas's version of Keep Your Head Up. And there are just no words for Vivica anymore. Pac's money was also paying for Shugs car and a house.

Tupac is pretty much put on a pedistal because he was a rapper with so much talent who died early in life.

The difference is that KRS and Tupac were both politically conscience intellectuals but on two different levels.

KRS is like the professor intellectual. Higher level of thinking. How can I say this... you may be like yeah I feel this, but its unless you have that certain knowledge that his lyrics had, you couldn't REALLY feel him at his level.

Pac on the other hand just keep it straight hood. Like the high school drop out on the corner selling drugs could feel him, wereas he might not truely relate KRS because his lyrics were a bit more politically advanced.

Keep Your Head Up and Brenda's Got A Baby in my opinion are probably two of Tupac's most intellectual songs.

Someone said it best on VH-1 about Tupac and the industry... The person brings the persona to life, but the persona takes the person away.

Just my opinion

Imperial1 · #6 10-17-2004, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by UMgirl
I loved Nas's version of Keep Your Head Up. And there are just no words for Vivica anymore. Pac's money was also paying for Shugs car and a house.

Tupac is pretty much put on a pedistal because he was a rapper with so much talent who died early in life.

The difference is that KRS and Tupac were both politically conscience intellectuals but on two different levels.

KRS is like the professor intellectual. Higher level of thinking. How can I say this... you may be like yeah I feel this, but its unless you have that certain knowledge that his lyrics had, you couldn't REALLY feel him at his level.

Pac on the other hand just keep it straight hood. Like the high school drop out on the corner selling drugs could feel him, wereas he might not truely relate KRS because his lyrics were a bit more politically advanced.

Keep Your Head Up and Brenda's Got A Baby in my opinion are probably two of Tupac's most intellectual songs.

Someone said it best on VH-1 about Tupac and the industry... The person brings the persona to life, but the persona takes the person away.

Just my opinion

How was Pac's style of lyrics any different from what NWA, Scarface, or even Too Short(As much as I really don't too much like him.) was saying at the time? I mean he wasn't saying nothing different from all of those names. I personally think Nas is more advanced lyrically than Pac and Nas came from the hood as well.

Imperial1

abaici · #7 10-17-2004, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RedefinedDiva
I mean, when Pac was on serious tips and dropping knowledge, I loved him. However, he often flipped the script once he was in the company of Shug, Snoop, and 'nem. How you gonna drop knowledge and seem so focused, but in the next second, all you can talk about is money, murder, and sleeping with people's wives (referring to the alleged Faith Evans incident).

But again, I'm not trying to persuade anyone to like Tupac the way that I do. I mean, I'm openly admit I'm biased. But, at the same time, I'm not unreasonable. I said, top three, not number #1 MC of all time.

Um, 'cause he was in his early 20s. Who has it all figured out then. I'm not making excuses, I'm just saying. Too me, Tupac symbolizes a lot of the young brothas in the streets who are trying to figure things out. They are trying to figure out things and make sense of the world around them, but they get caught up in the glamour of quick money and good times. A lot of them die before they have the chance to reach their full potential.

Considering his age, educational background, associations, and upbringings, Tupac developed into a very interesting individual. Tupac was an enigma. He was a rapper, a poet, an actor. I mean, when he was ten someone asked him what he wanted to be when he grew up and he said, "A revolutionary." He identified with Vincent Van Gogh, and admired A Starry Night.
Again, he was spoke about people and things that other rappers were not really touching on. Again, I did not put him in the same category as a KRS-1 or Chuck D.

**How can you compare Tupac to NWA???**

DIVA1177 · #8 10-18-2004, 03:58 PM

I feel you abaici. I swear 'Me Against the World' got me through college. Folks have to open their minds and see the whole person that Tupac was. I don't think he is the greatest but he is for damn sure up there. Tupac is the poster child for the conflicted rapper...the conflicted person. He was very interesting to watch. His music reflected his conflict. I still play All Eyez On Me like it came out yesterday.

Imperial1 · #9 10-18-2004, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by abaici

**How can you compare Tupac to NWA???**

Because he said nothing different then what they were saying. And I also added Scarface as well. And also you can't forget about Melle Mel and his crew when they came out with The Message. Pac wasn't saying nothing different to that either. And also add Kool G. Rap to that list because he was talking about it before a lot of these so-called hardcore rappers.

Imperial1

RBL · #10 10-18-2004, 06:30 PM

First off let me just say that the program was really good and Doug E Fresh ROCKED that crowd with the DJ's behind him....Kid Rock was a surprise.. CAN SOMEBODY PLEASE LET MC LYTE ROCK A STAGE...I WAS FEENIN FOR CHA CHA CHA..LOL

Secondly I get so tired of the Biggie vs 2Pac debate. I don't believe they are comparable at all. In the land of Hip Hop 2Pac is not overrated(While I wouldn't put him in my Top 5 MC category) his contribution to hip hop is invaluable. His own contridictions is what made him a star IMO. His songs offered variety that no other artist(except Nas) did during the 90's. He wasn't a one theme artist and I liked it.

abaici · #11 10-18-2004, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RBL
First off let me just say that the program was really good and Doug E Fresh ROCKED that crowd with the DJ's behind him....Kid Rock was a surprise.. CAN SOMEBODY PLEASE LET MC LYTE ROCK A STAGE...I WAS FEENIN FOR CHA CHA CHA..LOL

Secondly I get so tired of the Biggie vs 2Pac debate. I don't believe they are comparable at all. In the land of Hip Hop 2Pac is not overrated(While I wouldn't put him in my Top 5 MC category) his contribution to hip hop is invaluable. His own contridictions is what made him a star IMO. His songs offered variety that no other artist(except Nas) did during the 90's. He wasn't a one theme artist and I liked it.

Alas, an unbiased voice of reason. This is why I'm the president of your fan club!!!!

DELTABRAT · #12 10-18-2004, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RBL
First off let me just say that the program was really good and Doug E Fresh ROCKED that crowd with the DJ's behind him....Kid Rock was a surprise.. CAN SOMEBODY PLEASE LET MC LYTE ROCK A STAGE...I WAS FEENIN FOR CHA CHA CHA..LOL

Secondly I get so tired of the Biggie vs 2Pac debate. I don't believe they are comparable at all. In the land of Hip Hop 2Pac is not overrated(While I wouldn't put him in my Top 5 MC category) his contribution to hip hop is invaluable. His own contridictions is what made him a star IMO. His songs offered variety that no other artist(except Nas) did during the 90's. He wasn't a one theme artist and I liked it.

Yeah, plus he was cuter than any of those other cats. Except Nas.

Just my own shallow $19.13.

kiml122 · #13 10-19-2004, 10:38 AM

I was so looking forward to this show, and I was kind of disappointed. I mean I enjoyed what I saw, but I was looking for something more. I really felt Nas's rendition of Keep Your Head up, and did you all see Pac's sister singing the song?

One of the questions I had all night was where in the heck was Rev Run?

Oh and I agree that MC Lyte should have been hosting, and I was so waiting for her to break out with a rhyme. Again the show was good, but I was really expecting MORE.......Oh, and can anyone tell me where the original Master Gee from the Sugar Hill Gang is. I don't care for his replacement. I remember he was the cutie in the group beause he was only about 17 or 18 at the time when the group came out.

Imperial1 · #14 10-19-2004, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RBL
In the land of Hip Hop 2Pac is not overrated

I would beg to differ on the land of hip hop part. Because imo, a lot of people whom I consider to be STRAIGHT hip hop would believe Pac is overrated. People worship him as if he were a hip hop god which is something he most definitely ain't.

Imperial1

RBL · #15 10-19-2004, 07:02 PM

Well I guess we will have to agree to disagree as it relates to 2Pac. Again I don't think 2Pac was the greatest MC in hip hop music, now or then. I think he was a poet and offered some very insightful songs as well as meaningless party songs during his short career. I view NO MAN as a god of anything and his position in the Hip Hop is subjective. Brenda's Got A Baby is still relevant in 2004. 2Pac's work (some)is still relevant and I think thats why he gets attention as so hyped after death.