Has Anti-hazing gone too far?

[Virtuous Woman]

So I'm at Sectionals on Saturday and I'm standing in line to get food. I'm trying to balance a plate of food, a cup of ice, and a soda. I see a pledge walking by so I ask him to put my soda and my cup on the table for me. An older brother (circa '88) is standing behind me and he says "Did you just ask a pledge to do a personal favor for you?" and I say "He was walking by and I needed some help." and he says "We have serious anti-hazing rules and you need to be careful." and then I said "With all due respect, I only asked him to do what I would hope that a brother would do for me".

Does anyone else think that that was as ridiculous as I think it was? Has anti-hazing gone too far

[Senusret I]

Yes, that was rigotdamneddiculous.

[33girl]

You should have said "well I was going to ask him to wash my car and bathe my St Bernard but it looks like rain."

[GoldnBlue2004]

Mmmm, interesting!

[KnowledgeSeeker]

Oh my gosh VW I can't believe that happened. I want to know who was that older Bro. He did reach, REALLY far, with that "anti-hazing" comment . It was a FAVOR not a task or test or anything like that!

I think because of the fact that people are suing the world for every little thing that happens directly/indirectly to them that we have become overly cautious with all of our actions, but come on, "will u put my stuff on my table" is NOT something to be worried about! It's not like u still were empty handed or were walking behind the pledge like you were queen of the day!!

You gave a GREAT response...but I knew that you would !

[emb021]

Originally posted by Virtuous Woman
So I'm at Sectionals on Saturday and I'm standing in line to get food. I'm trying to balance a plate of food, a cup of ice, and a soda. I see a pledge walking by so I ask him to put my soda and my cup on the table for me. An older brother (circa '88) is standing behind me and he says "Did you just ask a pledge to do a personal favor for you?" and I say "He was walking by and I needed some help." and he says "We have serious anti-hazing rules and you need to be careful." and then I said "With all due respect, I only asked him to do what I would hope that a brother would do for me".

Does anyone else think that that was as ridiculous as I think it was? Has anti-hazing gone too far

First off, I'll say that I am very much opposed to hazing and am always upset when I hear of hazing incidents in APO because I fell that hazing does not belong in APO.

That said, I think this older Brother overreacted.

And yes, I feel that others have gone too far with anti-hazing. I think APO has a very reasonable policy regarding hazing and the like. But I am always amazed that other GLO have gone overboard with the issue of hazing to the point where:

* calling a pledge a 'pledge' is hazing.
* asking a pledge to do anything, like say service hours or wear a pledge pin, is hazing
* asking a pledge to met the members of a chapter and get interviews/signatures/etc is hazing.
* asking a pledge to learning about the organization and be tested on that knowledge is hazing.

I think you get the idea.

[Attractive#7]

Originally posted by Senusret I
Yes, that was rigotdamneddiculous.

lol I had to read this one like 3 times to get it...

Originally posted by 33girl
You should have said "well I was going to ask him to wash my car and bathe my St Bernard but it looks like rain."

lol

So i guess I was wrong when I had our pledges clean my truck, do my homework, babysit my cousins, and braid my hair all while singing the toastsong backwards...darn. There goes my membership...

JUST KIDDING

[GoldnBlue2004]

LOL

[Senusret I]

Originally posted by Attractive#7


So i guess I was wrong when I had our pledges clean my truck, do my homework, babysit my cousins, and braid my hair all while singing the toastsong backwards...darn. There goes my membership...

You are a FOOL!!!!! lololol

[naraht]

To a *small* degree, what the campus will consider hazing will vary from campus to campus. PUblic vs. Private, California vs. Deep South, historically Black vs. historically white.

The chapter has to go on any point of whichever is *strictest*: APO risk management/pledge standards; State Law, School Rules. Some schools have gone to, IMO, a ludicrous level, but the chapter just has to live with it. If the chapter doesn't know how it can follow both the school rules and the pledge standards, *PLEASE* talk to your sectional chair/regional director about it. It will be worked out.

All that having been said, I go with the following rule of thumb. If the pledges of a chapter are doing an event and the school president, editor of the school newspaper (holding a camera) and your chapter's regional director walk in and your program doesn't change, don't worry about it.

In the incident in question. I'd suggest that the brother should have asked the Region II director. That's why Craig gets paid the big bucks

Randy

[Virtuous Woman]

In the incident in question. I'd suggest that the brother should have asked the Region II director. That's why Craig gets paid the big bucks

You mean Region I and Marilyn was there.

[emb021]

Originally posted by naraht
To a *small* degree, what the campus will consider hazing will vary from campus to campus. PUblic vs. Private, California vs. Deep South, historically Black vs. historically white.

The chapter has to go on any point of whichever is *strictest*: APO risk management/pledge standards; State Law, School Rules. Some schools have gone to, IMO, a ludicrous level, but the chapter just has to live with it. If the chapter doesn't know how it can follow both the school rules and the pledge standards, *PLEASE* talk to your sectional chair/regional director about it. It will be worked out.

All that having been said, I go with the following rule of thumb. If the pledges of a chapter are doing an event and the school president, editor of the school newspaper (holding a camera) and your chapter's regional director walk in and your program doesn't change, don't worry about it.

Randy

All good points about school policy. School policy always trumps fraternity policy.

Please note, that my previous note was about OTHER GLOs hazing policies, not state/school policies.

The few times I have heard of school policies making chapter change their pledge programs has been when schools mandated a shorter pledge program (NPS say 6-10 weeks) or in certain cases didn't allow for a true pledge program (for which the fraternity has an alternate new member education program policy).

A good rule of thumb I've heard and used is "Never ask a pledge to do something you won't ask a Brother". I think its a good one, but again, I've seen it misused. Nonsense like: 'we wouldn't ask a brother to collect signatures, so how can you ask a pledge?' (Answer: uh, we DO ask brothers to collect signature. Go to a National Convention and check out the Golden VIP contest.) or 'we wouldn't ask a brother to wear his pin, so how can you ask a pledge?' (Answer: uh, yes we do. many times in our chapter our president has reminded the brothers to wear their letters and pins at upcoming events). Well, you get the idea.

[naraht]

Originally posted by Virtuous Woman
You mean Region I and Marilyn was there.

Sorry, saw the 88 (year) in the original post and thought section 88 which is in Region II.