Why you didn't make it into a sorority.

[FAB*SpiceySpice]

Originally posted by Peaches-n-Cream
Are there really schools were every PNM is a size 0, 2, or 4, six feet tall, and blonde and blue eyed? I couldn't imagine it.

Yea, you wouldn't think it'd happen, but it does. And I only go to school in Missouri. I'm going to guess that it's probably even worse in the South where greek life is an even bigger deal.

I remember distinctly thinking on one day of rush this year as we were escorting the PNM's into our house, I was intimidated by some of them. It seems like every year they get better and better looking, seriously. AXJules can back me up on this, I was totally blown away by the girls that rushed this fall. The majority of them were blond, beautiful, immpecably dressed in expensive clothes, and for the most part they had decent personalities.

As for the weight thing being a factor, I hate to say this, but it's true. I know that a lot of girls think that if they let in overweight people then they'll get the reputation as the "fat girls" and that can literally kill your chapter on this campus. A sorority right now is suffering from that exact thing. It sucks, but this is a very very competitive Greek system, and there are a lot of close minded people who aren't able to look past appearances.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by Peaches-n-Cream
Are there really schools were every PNM is a size 0, 2, or 4, six feet tall, and blonde and blue eyed? I couldn't imagine it.

I think there aren't any schools where EVERY PNM is gorgeous, but the more competitive a rush is, the more likely that most of them are. Our rush isn't even known as super-competitive, and there is only one sorority that you HAVE to be beautiful to get into -- but I would say that 95 percent of the girls going through rush are above average in terms of attractiveness. Even a number of the girls in the so-called "fat sorority" would make your jaw drop with how beautiful they are.

It's funny because it's entirely based on comparison -- the fat sorority is really only "fat" compared to the gorgeous size 0s in the "blonde sorority." The groups on this campus that are struggling with their reps would, if transplanted to a lot of other Greek systems around the country, likely be in the top-middle tiers of the groups. For some groups at REALLY competitive schools, this is even more true.

But like Kiki said, becoming the "fat sorority" can take a hit to your reputation far harder than almost anything else. Being the fat sorority is harder to recover from than being the junkie sorority, than being the slutty sorority, even than being the ugly sorority. I'm not sure why that is, but it's at least partially related to the fact that, historically, part of the rush process has usually been not just finding girls that you mesh with, but finding girls that will appeal to the fraternities. You just didn't see the same thing happening with the fraternities, where they were looking for the guys that would appeal to the sororities -- they took who they wanted to take.

For better or for worse I've seen this changing to the point where a lot of frats ARE getting concerned about what kind of guys appeal to the sororities. But that goes along with the trend of guys becoming more concerned about their looks in general. AND brings us to another whole topic entirely . . .

[NikkiB]

during rush at FSU, PNMs have to go to ALL events their invited to, or they get automatically dropped completely. is it not like that elsewhere?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by NikkiB

Also, during rush at FSU, PNMs have to go to ALL events their invited to, or they get automatically dropped completely. is it not like that elsewhere?

Some schools do this, but some do not. The problem comes when a woman keeps saying she doesn't want to go back to a chapter, they keep inviting her back and there's no way for them to know (unless she's straight up rude) that she really doesn't want to be there.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Some schools do this, but some do not. The problem comes when a woman keeps saying she doesn't want to go back to a chapter, they keep inviting her back and there's no way for them to know (unless she's straight up rude) that she really doesn't want to be there.

Would it be considered rude for the woman to tactfully say something like "This seems like a great house, but I really don't feel like I fit in here."? Otherwise, if she's being blatantly rude so as to not get invited back, other houses (that she does want) are going to hear about it.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Would it be considered rude for the woman to tactfully say something like "This seems like a great house, but I really don't feel like I fit in here."? Otherwise, if she's being blatantly rude so as to not get invited back, other houses (that she does want) are going to hear about it.

Put yourself back during rush.

Now think about how you would feel if a rushee said that to you. No matter how nicely she said it, I think you would be upset and say OMG WHAT A BIA!!

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Would it be considered rude for the woman to tactfully say something like "This seems like a great house, but I really don't feel like I fit in here."? Otherwise, if she's being blatantly rude so as to not get invited back, other houses (that she does want) are going to hear about it.

No PNM ever thinks that unless they think the house is not good enough for them. So it would be a pretty transparent remark.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Would it be considered rude for the woman to tactfully say something like "This seems like a great house, but I really don't feel like I fit in here."?

There is no tactful way to say that. If you are required to go to all events, your best bet is to just suck it up and go. I'm sorry, but unless you're a complete bitch, it's not hard to be a polite guest to a sorority that's not your favorite for an HOUR at the most (the length of most pref parties). Sorority women are not dense, we know what all those cryptic statements mean ("I don't like you." or "I think I'm too good for you.")

[FSUZeta]

thanks to every one who truthfully discussed the weight issue/nonissue. when i introduced the topic in this thread i felt that i was taking a risk, but decided to take that risk and point out one more possible reason a pnm might not be invited back to a house. and we all know that in each of our organizations, on a national level, there are "fat" chapters, ugly chapters, genius chapters, gorgeous chapters, chapters overflowing with members and chapters that make you wonder how they survive year to year. and just because we state that looks might be a reason doesn't mean we think that it is right or even agree with it. and we certainly don't mean to discourage anyone from participating in the recruitment process. as always, there are exceptions to every rule! lisa

[SigKapKatzue]

I suppose that weight can obviously be seen as a difference for some of the chapters on my campus-- some aren't over a size 4 or 6 honestly. And my chapter doesn't do that, and if we become the fat girls some day and that kills us-- then I will be okay with it, knowing I have the beautiful (inside and out) girls to call my sister-- not the one that was dressed well in her size 4 pants.

I don't know-- I guess I feel that I would rather have a PNM that would bring A LOT to the chapter, no matter there weight or looks then anything.

The truth is that rush goes so fast and everyone gets judged quicker than they would like-- but I never want to be THAT chapter that judges women based on their dress size.

[MFC2002]

[Hijack]

Originally posted by USChica06
Don't tell me that 7 houses thought I wasn't good enough based on my personality, outgoing-ness, and whatnot. If I'm sharing this all with a bunch of strangers (and honey ) then you know I'm not a shy person. I was a legacy at a house that cut me. Figure that out.

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but maybe what you consider "not being shy" comes across as rude or over the top. Not everyone believes that sharing stories with strangers is the "appropriate" thing to do. There are a lot of women who are overweight who get bids during rush, even at USC. That being said, history has shown that chapters don't survive on competive campuses if they are not popular with the fraternities. There is not a historical high demand for overweight ugly girls, so I'll let you guess who gets picked first.

Another thing to keep in mind is that many NPC groups have legacy policies that require them to keep someone for another round. On most campuses, and for most NPC groups, if a chapter releases a legacy it is a BIG DEAL and it is waste of that legacy's time to keep going back to COB events.

[/Hijack]

[Peaches-n-Cream]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
I think there aren't any schools where EVERY PNM is gorgeous, but the more competitive a rush is, the more likely that most of them are. Our rush isn't even known as super-competitive, and there is only one sorority that you HAVE to be beautiful to get into -- but I would say that 95 percent of the girls going through rush are above average in terms of attractiveness. Even a number of the girls in the so-called "fat sorority" would make your jaw drop with how beautiful they are.

This is kind of interesting to me. My boyfriend and I noticed the other day how everyone we see is really great looking. I figured that we're in New York City, and a lot of models and actors and actresses live in this neighborhood. Maybe people are just getting better looking everywhere. You don't have to be a natural beauty anymore. Nutrition, diet, exercise, cosmetics, hair products including color, contact lenses, and fashion play a big role in the lives of many people. Plastic surgery is also an option that many people including teens utilize. I'm not sure if that is good or bad. I just wonder what happens to the 'normal' looking girls or the girls who are less than attractive at these schools with a competitive rush. Are they dropped from recruitment immediately? Do they not even bother to sign up?

[DGMarie]

My school was the U of S Carolina and I recall way back in the late 1980's you could tell almost 100% of the time which sorority a girl was in by how she looked. Yes we had the fat sorority and the ugly one and the one with all the homecoming queens. Rushing at U of Sc could be a traumatic thing if you did not meet the right "look." As shallow as it was, it was very much the prevalent idea at the time. In fact, I distinctly remember how nasty it could be. There was a girl on campus who was a quadraplegic and used a motorized wheelchair. She also had a sorority canvas bookbag attached to the back of her chair with XYZ letters embroidered on it. When I went to the COB party for this group, one of the FIRST things I was told was that that poor girl WAS NOT a member of their sorority and they were very angry she had gotten a hold of their bag.

[SigKapKatzue]

Originally posted by DGMarie
When I went to the COB party for this group, one of the FIRST things I was told was that that poor girl WAS NOT a member of their sorority and they were very angry she had gotten a hold of their bag.

How sad is that. It's one thing to choose the image you want for your sorority, no matter how stuck up it is. However, to go to such lengths to ostracize this girl probably made THEM look way worse for bringing them up, then to just accept the fact that the girl very obviously looked up to them.

[33girl]

Originally posted by MFC2002
[Not everyone believes that sharing stories with strangers is the "appropriate" thing to do.

I think she meant us here on GC, not that she was going to every rush event and telling them her ultimate hopes and fears.