Is Gay marriage necessary today or immoral?

[AXEAM]

.....telling a thief that nobody's perfect as oppose to telling him/her that they should go to jail......yeah that will really work....where do you get this stuff from. All that will do is make the thief say since nobody's perfect I might as well keep stealing.

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by preciousjeni
This is rather insulting to me as a Christian woman.

Well sweetie..be insulted at God..not me. I didnt call homosexuality an abomination, destroy a city for it and call it immoral. HE DID. I just read the Bible and try my best to follow what it teaches. Don't hate the messenger

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by preciousjeni
Consider what Jesus did throughout his time on earth. He was concerned with people making the right choice to follow him. He never forced his lifestyle and beliefs on anyone (he did have a strong physical reaction to bad things happening on Holy Ground, however!!) But, if asked, he would surely tell the people what was right and true. For us, as Christians, to deny people the choice to live as they please and try to push them toward our way of life is counterproductive. Do you really think that a thief, for example, would respond better to, "You deserve jail time for breaking the law!!" or to "No one is perfect, let me tell you about the one who can save you." The minute you put restrictions on what people honestly believe is right (I'm talking about things that don't directly hurt you - not murderers, rapists, etc. - that's a different subject) you lose them.

How we choose to honor God's word is up to us...and only he can judge us...when Christians "give in" or call themselves "tolerating" stuff like this...I call it compromising. I will NEVER compromise my beliefs because of what happens to be mainstream. And I believe if Im in a position of authority..or in a position where I can speak my mind...I will do so with God's word backing me up. It wasn't popular when he taught it back then among some.....I am only seeking approval from one person...and I"ll know I have it when I hear "Well done thou good and faithful servant!"

If you really can't see the fact that society is becoming more mainstream/secular....and that every Christian value is being eroded...and now WE are the ones that are the hatemongers...you need to wake up...it has all been written...

[rho4life]

The US was founded on principles of religious FREEDOM. That doesn't mean forcing everyone to embrace YOUR interpretation of what it means to be "Christlike". Whether or not homesexuals are accorded the same legal rights as heterosexuals has nothing to do with religion(s), it is about secular rights.

Separation of church and state!

[SummerChild]

Originally posted by rho4life


Separation of church and state!

Rho4life, after almost three years of lawschool I can honestly say that there is no true separation of religion and law (which is what I think that most people think of when they write "separation of church and state").

Why is there no true separation of religion and law? Because 1. the foundation of the law is built on, to some extent, moral tenets. What informs morality? Religion largely.

When judges decide case law, thereby creating new law, they look to the law that has gone before but they also look to *policy*. The question for the judge becomes, what policy do we want to encourage for our society. This policy is often informed by what our moral/religious values are.

Therefore, there is no true separation of church and state in the way that you might think. They can't explicitly say that they are following verse x in book y of the bible. But they can say that they don't want to promote behavior x (ex: homosexuality) then make up some reason about how it will lead to a demise/corruption in society as a whole. It happens in case law all the time.

So it is an arguable notion that there is a true and complete separation of church and state.

SC

[MaMaBuddha]

Originally posted by Dionysus
This thread is getting uglaaaaay!

girl, i don't think it's the thread that is ugly....

http://www.hrc.org/millionformarriage/index.shtml

support gay marriages!!!

[Honeykiss1974]

An alternative for those that are interested.....

Support Traditional Marriages

or

One Million Moms

[Dionysus]

www.tolerance.org

You know you want BOTH of them, Love_Spell.

[DoggyStyle82]

Originally posted by MaMaBuddha
ct4,

that article you posted up was very pleasant to read and really brought tears to my eyes...

being able to marry in certain states and have it recognized...

a victory to us.


as i read the post written by some of my sorors and bruhs and greekfriends...i sense some type of personal vendetta.

why is this so serious to certain individuals???


Going to jail: read up on the stonewall riots
Being denied jobs: every single day...ever heard the phrase too butch looking or that dude sounds gay?
Being killed: Matthew Sheppard/Allen Schindler/Barry Winchell/Shaika Gunn (all these people were killed because they were gay and out, the latter killed because she rejected a man's advances)

i can go on..

i would never compare the struggle of being gay to the struggle of growing up african american, black ,negro, jewish, irish, or any other group of people, but it is a struggle in it's own right..

i can't not change my skin color and i refuse to change my sexual orientation because someone throw a few quotes out of the bible and all of a sudden i am banished to external damnation.

the idea of comparing my lifestyle to that of beastality and pedophilia is so ludicris (sp), it is sickening to hear.

MaMa, you know that you are one of my favorite people and your sexual orientation means nothing to me as far as whether I like you. However, I feel that in Gays attempts to mainstream their lifestyle/sexual activity, they want to FORCE people to accept it, whether they have legitimate reasons for not "liking" it. People do not want to be bullied into accepting things they they have reservations about. I have STATED that GAYS should be treated equally under the law. Civil Unions should suffice constitutionally as far as equal protection. I'm for that. Marriage is an institution set up by God. That is His domain, not the Constitution's, so therefore, what Gays have should not be termed "marriage". There is no "hate" in that thought, nor a vendetta.

P.S. don't hate me for this, but whether you find the comparisons ludicrous or sickening, it is the Judeo/Christian/Muslim God who has made that determination in the Book of Leviticus. I like you and I want you to like me, but I can't lie about God's Word just so I can appear "nice".

I love you though. It's only a disagreement of opinion and we can kick it any time cause you are good people.

[preciousjeni]

Originally posted by DoggyStyle82
However, I feel that in Gays attempts to mainstream their lifestyle/sexual activity, they want to FORCE people to accept it, whether they have legitimate reasons for not "liking" it.

Hey DoggyStyle, (ooh! lovin it)...Anyway, your post got me thinking about a way to better elucidate my position.

Here's the hypothetical situation:

Ok, what if I said that heterosexual marriages were absolutely grotesque and drove me to physical pain? What if I wanted to abolish this form of marriage and 64% of the nation happened to back me on it? (Note: please don't say that heterosexual marriage is already accepted so we shouldn't change the law...many laws have been changed!) But, I would allow for Civil Unions.

I'm trying to encourage all GCers to look at this situation from a different perspective...think White Man's Burden.

ETA: Regarding the post about this thread getting ugly, I just wanted to say that I am impressed and encouraged by the way everyone is handling her/himself in here!!

[DoggyStyle82]

Originally posted by rho4life
Regardless of whether you are for or against Gay Marriage/civil Unions, does anyone really think a constitutional amendment is needed? Before you think answer, think about the slippery slope that would cause. The only time that the const has been changed to restrict rights was prohibition, and that didnt last very long. Do we really want to support changing the constitution over this???????? What's next? No financial aid for college unless you're a practicing Christian, going to the same Church as the Pres?????? This is NOT a GAY issue, this is a HUMAN rights issue. The gov should not care who I sleep with, as long as we're both consenting adults. As a country, I would rather see people working to develop more jobs, or to erradicate disease, or homelessness, rather than people taking off work to come to SF and protest gay marriages. It makes me wonder where our priorities are as a society.

The amendment would not restrict rights. It would define what was undefined. The government doesn't care who you sleep with. They only care about tranference of legal rights and property, so that is a fallacious argument.

[AXEAM]

PJ

You missed what bruh Doggy was saying........it's not about what you are I decide is wrong it's what GOD decided.

[MaMaBuddha]

Originally posted by DoggyStyle82
MaMa, you know that you are one of my favorite people and your sexual orientation means nothing to me as far as whether I like you. However, I feel that in Gays attempts to mainstream their lifestyle/sexual activity, they want to FORCE people to accept it, whether they have legitimate reasons for not "liking" it. People do not want to be bullied into accepting things they they have reservations about. I have STATED that GAYS should be treated equally under the law. Civil Unions should suffice constitutionally as far as equal protection. I'm for that. Marriage is an institution set up by God. That is His domain, not the Constitution's, so therefore, what Gays have should not be termed "marriage". There is no "hate" in that thought, nor a vendetta.

P.S. don't hate me for this, but whether you find the comparisons ludicrous or sickening, it is the Judeo/Christian/Muslim God who has made that determination in the Book of Leviticus. I like you and I want you to like me, but I can't lie about God's Word just so I can appear "nice".

I love you though. It's only a disagreement of opinion and we can kick it any time cause you are good people.

now doggy,

you know we go waaaaaaaaaaaayyy back!! you are one of the individuals i admire and hold in high standards as a greek.

but one thing i don't think is that gay people are forcing people to accept their lifestyle. one doesn't have to accept anything BUT respect, yes...respect me as a person and don't insult me with quotes from the bible or what defines an institution of marriage. if there is anything being forced, it's that passage from the bible, thrown all over this thread.

i know what leviticus says...there are are rules in there about several laws that we disobey. i don't see anyone bringing them to the table.

i may not be very religious nore do i tote around a bible quoting right from wrong. all i want is the same rights as any other couple does. the chance to marry and receive the same benefits and adopt children.

be the way doggy, i don't hate you for your thoughts and i would FORCE myself on you and you couldn't resist (my personality is adorable) i just refuse to go hide in the closet and under the rock from my sexuality.

question...am i the only resident open lesbian on greekchat? please do not out anyone...i'll take pm's.

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by MaMaBuddha

but one thing i don't think is that gay people are forcing people to accept their lifestyle. one doesn't have to accept anything BUT respect, yes...respect me as a person and don't insult me with quotes from the bible or what defines an institution of marriage. if there is anything being forced, it's that passage from the bible, thrown all over this thread.

i know what leviticus says...there are are rules in there about several laws that we disobey. i don't see anyone bringing them to the table.

i may not be very religious nore do i tote around a bible quoting right from wrong. all i want is the same rights as any other couple does. the chance to marry and receive the same benefits and adopt children.

what rights are being denied to you by the government? i mean people are in here screaming seperation of church and state, but at the same time you all want the government to make religious institutions marry you... MARRIAGE IS AN INSTITUTION SET UP BY GOD!!!! The civil union part should satisfy the gay community's needs....

I know that sin is sin...and there is no greater sin...and we all fall short...but when you sin you must repent...and that means "to turn away from." You can't repent for a lifestyle...or a way that you feel you are... And how Jesus deals with that is up to him. BUt at the same time...its not that Christians are forcing their religious points of view on the gay community, its just what we believe...and we have a right to that like you have a right to what you believe in. But in a democracy, the majority rules...and this is not what the majority deems normal or necessary at this time.

And lastly, I dont think anyone on GC stays up at night wishing gay people would be straight, or is trying to convert any gay person to become straight....I think we're just passionate about what we believe and we're not backing down from that even if it's unpopular. We can't put anybody in or out of hell..or judge anyone.. God's word has already done that and that's between yall and him... so I wish people would stop accusing those of us that think homosexuality is wrong and immoral as hatemongers, extremists, or people that are intolerant.

People wonder why we care about what people do in their bedrooms...well I dont think we do. I think we care about the preservation of morals in this country and the effect these things would have on the family and the implications for the future of this culture.

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974
An alternative for those that are interested.....

Support Traditional Marriages

or

One Million Moms

Thanks for the sites HK!