But why are the NPHC groups so ... different???

[ealymc]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

PsychTau,

Warning: My opinion is purely speculation and is meant in no way to hurt anyone's feelings.

I think part of the situation is that there are a lot more NPC/NIC organizations than there are NPHC organizations. Perhaps the number of member orgs has something to do with...it. Whatever "it" is.

I think that NPC/NIC organizations lack the alumni involvement that NPHC performs so well because the same groups of people who pledge NPC/NIC GLO's in college perform their civic and community service through other organizations, be it the lodge, Jaycees, Lions, Kiwanis, etc. Black Greeks join these orgs as well, of course, but a lot of black greeks are also only in their orgs. They prefer to perform community service through their org.

PERHAPS (a big perhaps) if NPC/NIC orgs stressed the "giving back" part of the lifetime committment, people would be encouraged to join alumni/alumnae chapters. By no means am I saying that pledging a "white" org means that it isn't a lifetime committment, because I know it is. But just telling somebody it's a lifetime committment isn't enough to bring them around.

I dunno....I don't think these people who aren't joining alumni/ae chapters aren't doing ANYTHING with themselves, I just don't think they have made the connection of community service to their GLOs.

Personally, I see the same thing happening with APO alums.....it's hard getting these alumni associations set up (for various reasons) but MANY APO alums end up joining other organizations that may not be fraternal.

I have no answers, just ideas.

In response, I think you hit on it when you talked about NPHC members being able to become graduate initiates... that is really unheard of in most NPC/NIC organizations. It's either pledging while undergrad or missin' the boat. That fact alone means that you are going to get members that are dead serious about lifetime commitments. I like that. Alot.

I have a question now... when I transferred into my university, from a school with no Greeks whatsoever, I chose to go through Rush to see what was out there and meet some other students. One of the reasons that I chose Sigma Nu was because of the things I found out about them, the men I met, the entire experience I heard about, and the genuine brotherhood I felt was there. I was interested in the BGLOs as well, as a Black man, but getting information was SO FREAKIN' HARD not knowing anyone at the institution. I didn't even know how to go about finding out info about intake because of the secrecy surrounding everything. Kind of turned me off. My biological little brother is now in a similar situation. First year at a new school, knows only a few people... Any advice on how he can get the info he desires? Smalltown boys don't have plethora of active Greeks to draw information from...

[Senusret I]

ealymc,

If I were your brother, I would first decide on what kind of experience I was looking for.

When I was considering Greek life, belonging to a "black" fraternity was very important to me, BUT I still looked at all kinds of organizations. (For a very brief period I even considered LUL (La Unidad Latina, Lambda Upsilon Lambda)

But at the end of the day, I was in love with the notion of being part of an African American brotherhood.

Your brother might not be into that. I think Firehouse said in another thread that guys should just seek to be around the type of men they would enjoy being around. For me, those were Alphas.

I know that doesn't entirely answer your question.... put it to you like this. He should know in his heart whether he's looking for a cultural experience. If he is, THEN he should research the five NPHC fraternities' national websites. He might be able to narrow down his preferences that way.

When he approaches the members, he should approach them as potential friends, not potential brothers -- if his first conversation is about membership, that will be a turn off. (Or put him into a position of compromised liability for himself and the members)

If he engages them in average, friendly conversation, he might be able to decide if those are the kinds of guys he wants to be around fraternally. THEN, when he's made up his mind on his own, THEN he discloses his interest.

That's what I would do if I was HIM. If I was YOU, I'd just tell him that Sigma Nu was the only way. And if I was ME, and he was MY brother, I'd tell him he'd be disowned if he didn't pledge Alpha, lol

[ealymc]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

ealymc,

If I were your brother, I would first decide on what kind of experience I was looking for.

When I was considering Greek life, belonging to a "black" fraternity was very important to me, BUT I still looked at all kinds of organizations. (For a very brief period I even considered LUL (La Unidad Latina, Lambda Upsilon Lambda)

But at the end of the day, I was in love with the notion of being part of an African American brotherhood.

Your brother might not be into that. I think Firehouse said in another thread that guys should just seek to be around the type of men they would enjoy being around. For me, those were Alphas.

I know that doesn't entirely answer your question.... put it to you like this. He should know in his heart whether he's looking for a cultural experience. If he is, THEN he should research the five NPHC fraternities' national websites. He might be able to narrow down his preferences that way.

When he approaches the members, he should approach them as potential friends, not potential brothers -- if his first conversation is about membership, that will be a turn off. (Or put him into a position of compromised liability for himself and the members)

If he engages them in average, friendly conversation, he might be able to decide if those are the kinds of guys he wants to be around fraternally. THEN, when he's made up his mind on his own, THEN he discloses his interest.

That's what I would do if I was HIM. If I was YOU, I'd just tell him that Sigma Nu was the only way. And if I was ME, and he was MY brother, I'd tell him he'd be disowned if he didn't pledge Alpha, lol

That would work if his school HAD Sigma Nu! LOL I really do feel like it's totally a personal decision and you find what feels right for you - after careful investigation. Thanks for the notes. I'll pass them on.

[BlueNYC2]

Originally Posted by ealymc

In response, I think you hit on it when you talked about NPHC members being able to become graduate initiates... that is really unheard of in most NPC/NIC organizations. It's either pledging while undergrad or missin' the boat. That fact alone means that you are going to get members that are dead serious about lifetime commitments. I like that. Alot.

I have a question now... when I transferred into my university, from a school with no Greeks whatsoever, I chose to go through Rush to see what was out there and meet some other students. One of the reasons that I chose Sigma Nu was because of the things I found out about them, the men I met, the entire experience I heard about, and the genuine brotherhood I felt was there. I was interested in the BGLOs as well, as a Black man, but getting information was SO FREAKIN' HARD not knowing anyone at the institution. I didn't even know how to go about finding out info about intake because of the secrecy surrounding everything. Kind of turned me off. My biological little brother is now in a similar situation. First year at a new school, knows only a few people... Any advice on how he can get the info he desires? Smalltown boys don't have plethora of active Greeks to draw information from...

when it comes to the NPHC, we like for ppl to find the info out on their own, do their own research, thats what the internet is for. truth be told, its really not that hard to get at pplz. We dont really give out intake info, except for GPA requirements, and credit requirements. i went to an HBCU so i cant really say how it goes on on other campuses, but we didnt have rushes, just informationals. As far ya brother goes...tell him to do his research into the orgs, whether it be NPHC or non-NPHC. go with the org that best fits his personality and ideals, and when he makes up his mind, express his interest to the bruhs of that org on the yard. If there's no active chapter on campus, he can try and contact a chapter @ a nearby school, and they should be able to put him in contact with someone who can help bring back the org to the campus.

[mccoyred]

Originally Posted by ealymc

I have a question now... when I transferred into my university, from a school with no Greeks whatsoever, I chose to go through Rush to see what was out there and meet some other students. One of the reasons that I chose Sigma Nu was because of the things I found out about them, the men I met, the entire experience I heard about, and the genuine brotherhood I felt was there. I was interested in the BGLOs as well, as a Black man, but getting information was SO FREAKIN' HARD not knowing anyone at the institution. I didn't even know how to go about finding out info about intake because of the secrecy surrounding everything. Kind of turned me off. My biological little brother is now in a similar situation. First year at a new school, knows only a few people... Any advice on how he can get the info he desires? Smalltown boys don't have plethora of active Greeks to draw information from...

Just two remarks to your statements. First, if you wanted to find out info about the NPHC frats, you could have; THOUSANDS of people apply to and cross in NPHC orgs every year. Secondly, the NPHC orgs did not offer the instant gratification that you were seeking because transfers students normally have to have a minimum number of credits AT THAT institution before applying; no fault, just reality.

As far as advice to your brother, I can't give any better that has already been given except that you share with him my remarks above.

[nikki1920]

He can start by just getting involved. We do stuff in other organizations as well. Check the national website of the org. Somewhere, somehow he can get in touch with someone who is a member. Each organization does hold informationals that are open for everyone to attend.

[Sugar08]

I agree with Nikki. He definitely needs to be visible on campus. Chances are, he'll meet some members of the frat by being involved in different groups ... and then his relationship with them can be a natural progression, rather than the forced "I reallllly wanna join your organization."

BTW: I'm glad this thread was resurrected. I'd never seen it before.

[Glitter650]

Originally posted by PsychTau
Good bump....now I'm going to start a discussion on it. My purpose is not to offend, but to discuss and learn. Play nice, everyone.1. What do you think NPC/NICs can do to move that direction? Without "copying" what NPHC does? (I agree that people should learn and "copy" leaders, but there's a difference in copying skills and copying symbols/trademarks/calls/traditions/etc).

2. How do NPHC alums stay active? I'm going out on a limb here (this is just my very own non-researched observation) to say that the black culture is to "stick together". You see family members defending/supporting other family members, just because it's a family member. Same thing with neighbors and friends. Is the "membership for life" ideal taught at the collegiate level, or is it started earlier than that in the families and neighborhoods? How do you think NPCs can teach that same ideal?
PsychTau

Well it is true that *most* African American (and most other minority) families have a strong sense of family... it comes from necessity... I mean if you were being ridiculed/unfairly judged wouldn't you stick to your family... who have always been there for you and are most likely like you ? Even though that "necessity" isn't as needed... (not AS much blatant racism going on now adays) the tradition remains. I can see it in my own life... I am Black and white... my African American relatives I feel have a stronger sense of family ( or at least togetherness) I mean my grandparents are divorced and my grandpa moved 2 blocks away. My European relatives are all scattered about the country.. (as far as different coasts) not that my white family cares any less about each other... they it's just a different sense of what it means to be in a family I think. Personally, being a member of an NPC org. I can't really say what makes the devotion to an NPHC org seem stronger except to say that I don't feel it has anything to do with family devotion.

I think more it has to do with the intake process they use to join. I don't know much about it... but I know it's alot tougher than register and go through a week of parties. I believe they have to feel a connection to the group/its ideals before.. NPC bases more on the people, it's devotion to the ORG that makes people continue... if you join for the people.. (as many I think do with NPC orgs) once you graduate you just keep in touch on your own with those people that you want to and the days/events of the org are a nice memory. Now I don't know how NPC can go about creating that bond to the actual org, nor do I believe it is COMPLETELY lacking in most NPC members... but if we could find a way to strengthen it I think we'd see a lot more alumni involvement. I think alot of it has to do with the fact that there are only 9 NPHC orgs. as well... their chapters I think tend to be larger as well...and most of them have more chapters than the NPC groups... more alumni means more alumini that are more likely to be involved as alumni.

[IotaNet]

Originally posted by PsychTau
1. What do you think NPC/NICs can do to move that direction?

2. How do NPHC alums stay active?

To the Group –

I’d like to approach this from another angle. I think that the primary reasons that NPHC groups have more alumni participation are:
1) The very structure of the groups provide for it, and;
2) The expectation that one is a “member for life” is ingrained from day one of your membership.

1) Each of the NPHC groups has Alumni (or Graduate) Chapters. In most of the 9, these chapters have Greek-letter names AND all conduct membership Intake. My mother is a retired banking executive and she just joined Alpha Kappa Alpha last year! Moreover, she is a proud AKA and identifies strongly with her chapter. Believe it or not, she and her line-sisters even participated in a step show (!) the week after they were initiated. As a matter of fact, Graduate chapters of NPHC organizations are the financial backbone of the organization. Grad chapters tend to be larger, with higher chapter dues and they definitely raise more money for philanthropy.

As I understand it, while there are some NPC/NIC groups that have alumni chapters, they don’t conduct intake at the alumni level. Further, my understanding is that Alumni chapters in those orgs are primarily a place to reminisce, network, and have fun – not necessarily a place to do the “work” of the organization. I also understand that when NPC/NIC alums want to “give back” to the organizations, they tend to make donations to the housing funds of the chapters into which they were initiated. NPHC Alums “give back” by joining a local grad chapter and becoming active in that chapter’s events.

2) In NPHC groups, the whole notion of “A lifetime of membership” is a key component. Once you join an NPHC group, there is an identification with that group that follows you forever. If you ask a 60 year-old member of Delta Sigma Theta about her affiliation, she will probably say, “I AM a Delta.” If you ask a member of an NPC/NIC org the same question, you are as likely as not to get an answer like, “I WAS an Alpha Gam (or Phi Sig or Teke or Pike, etc.) back in college.”

A good indicator of this is the organizational national convention attendance. A few years ago, the AKA’s had their Boule (National Convention) in Chicago. They had about 20,000 members in attendance – each of whom paid in the neighborhood of $250-400 for conference registration fees. These were obviously women who feel a strong affinity for the sorority and based on those numbers, you can bet that the majority of them were Grad members!

To answer the question originally posed, I think that they key to a construct that provides for this type of membership retention is the notion of the organization as a vehicle for community service. I don’t mean to imply that NPC/NIC groups don’t value community service but in the NPHC groups, it the prime driver. The woman who sponsored my mother for membership in AKA told her point blank: “AKA is not about socializing, parties, or having fun. Your prime reason for joining AKA should be to have an opportunity to serve.”

Strong words – but words that have kept the NPHC world going strong for almost 100 years.

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by IotaNet
To the Group –


As I understand it, while there are some NPC/NIC groups that have alumni chapters, they don’t conduct intake at the alumni level. Further, my understanding is that Alumni chapters in those orgs are primarily a place to reminisce, network, and have fun – not necessarily a place to do the “work” of the organization. I also understand that when NPC/NIC alums want to “give back” to the organizations, they tend to make donations to the housing funds of the chapters into which they were initiated. NPHC Alums “give back” by joining a local grad chapter and becoming active in that chapter’s events.

[

I don't know about the guys, but many NPC groups do initiate non-collegian women. I'm one of these people! I was initiated into AGD just this past December. There are actually many of us AIs here at Greek Chat. There is actually an entire subsection just for alumni/alumnae initiation in the "alumni" section.

[starang21]

Originally posted by IotaNet
To the Group –

I’d like to approach this from another angle. I think that the primary reasons that NPHC groups have more alumni participation are:
1) The very structure of the groups provide for it, and;
2) The expectation that one is a “member for life” is ingrained from day one of your membership.

1) Each of the NPHC groups has Alumni (or Graduate) Chapters. In most of the 9, these chapters have Greek-letter names AND all conduct membership Intake. My mother is a retired banking executive and she just joined Alpha Kappa Alpha last year! Moreover, she is a proud AKA and identifies strongly with her chapter. Believe it or not, she and her line-sisters even participated in a step show (!) the week after they were initiated. As a matter of fact, Graduate chapters of NPHC organizations are the financial backbone of the organization. Grad chapters tend to be larger, with higher chapter dues and they definitely raise more money for philanthropy.

As I understand it, while there are some NPC/NIC groups that have alumni chapters, they don’t conduct intake at the alumni level. Further, my understanding is that Alumni chapters in those orgs are primarily a place to reminisce, network, and have fun – not necessarily a place to do the “work” of the organization. I also understand that when NPC/NIC alums want to “give back” to the organizations, they tend to make donations to the housing funds of the chapters into which they were initiated. NPHC Alums “give back” by joining a local grad chapter and becoming active in that chapter’s events.

2) In NPHC groups, the whole notion of “A lifetime of membership” is a key component. Once you join an NPHC group, there is an identification with that group that follows you forever. If you ask a 60 year-old member of Delta Sigma Theta about her affiliation, she will probably say, “I AM a Delta.” If you ask a member of an NPC/NIC org the same question, you are as likely as not to get an answer like, “I WAS an Alpha Gam (or Phi Sig or Teke or Pike, etc.) back in college.”

A good indicator of this is the organizational national convention attendance. A few years ago, the AKA’s had their Boule (National Convention) in Chicago. They had about 20,000 members in attendance – each of whom paid in the neighborhood of $250-400 for conference registration fees. These were obviously women who feel a strong affinity for the sorority and based on those numbers, you can bet that the majority of them were Grad members!

To answer the question originally posed, I think that they key to a construct that provides for this type of membership retention is the notion of the organization as a vehicle for community service. I don’t mean to imply that NPC/NIC groups don’t value community service but in the NPHC groups, it the prime driver. The woman who sponsored my mother for membership in AKA told her point blank: “AKA is not about socializing, parties, or having fun. Your prime reason for joining AKA should be to have an opportunity to serve.”

Strong words – but words that have kept the NPHC world going strong for almost 100 years.

good stuff, bruh

OW OW!!!!!

leave it up to an old school grad bruh to always drop some knowledge on the youngin's.

[LatinaAlumna]

Originally posted by IotaNet
To the Group –

I’d like to approach this from another angle. I think that the primary reasons that NPHC groups have more alumni participation are:
1) The very structure of the groups provide for it, and;
2) The expectation that one is a “member for life” is ingrained from day one of your membership.

1) Each of the NPHC groups has Alumni (or Graduate) Chapters. In most of the 9, these chapters have Greek-letter names AND all conduct membership Intake. My mother is a retired banking executive and she just joined Alpha Kappa Alpha last year! Moreover, she is a proud AKA and identifies strongly with her chapter. Believe it or not, she and her line-sisters even participated in a step show (!) the week after they were initiated. As a matter of fact, Graduate chapters of NPHC organizations are the financial backbone of the organization. Grad chapters tend to be larger, with higher chapter dues and they definitely raise more money for philanthropy.

As I understand it, while there are some NPC/NIC groups that have alumni chapters, they don’t conduct intake at the alumni level. Further, my understanding is that Alumni chapters in those orgs are primarily a place to reminisce, network, and have fun – not necessarily a place to do the “work” of the organization. I also understand that when NPC/NIC alums want to “give back” to the organizations, they tend to make donations to the housing funds of the chapters into which they were initiated. NPHC Alums “give back” by joining a local grad chapter and becoming active in that chapter’s events.

2) In NPHC groups, the whole notion of “A lifetime of membership” is a key component. Once you join an NPHC group, there is an identification with that group that follows you forever. If you ask a 60 year-old member of Delta Sigma Theta about her affiliation, she will probably say, “I AM a Delta.” If you ask a member of an NPC/NIC org the same question, you are as likely as not to get an answer like, “I WAS an Alpha Gam (or Phi Sig or Teke or Pike, etc.) back in college.”

A good indicator of this is the organizational national convention attendance. A few years ago, the AKA’s had their Boule (National Convention) in Chicago. They had about 20,000 members in attendance – each of whom paid in the neighborhood of $250-400 for conference registration fees. These were obviously women who feel a strong affinity for the sorority and based on those numbers, you can bet that the majority of them were Grad members!

To answer the question originally posed, I think that they key to a construct that provides for this type of membership retention is the notion of the organization as a vehicle for community service. I don’t mean to imply that NPC/NIC groups don’t value community service but in the NPHC groups, it the prime driver. The woman who sponsored my mother for membership in AKA told her point blank: “AKA is not about socializing, parties, or having fun. Your prime reason for joining AKA should be to have an opportunity to serve.”

Strong words – but words that have kept the NPHC world going strong for almost 100 years.

Great posts, IotaNet!

[Glitter650]

Originally posted by Taualumna
I don't know about the guys, but many NPC groups do initiate non-collegian women. I'm one of these people! I was initiated into AGD just this past December. There are actually many of us AIs here at Greek Chat. There is actually an entire subsection just for alumni/alumnae initiation in the "alumni" section.

However.... I believe this is a more recent devolopment if I'm not mistaken...

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by Glitter650
However.... I believe this is a more recent devolopment if I'm not mistaken...

Yes, you're right, it is recent.

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by Senusret I

I think that NPC/NIC organizations lack the alumni involvement that NPHC performs so well because the same groups of people who pledge NPC/NIC GLO's in college perform their civic and community service through other organizations, be it the lodge, Jaycees, Lions, Kiwanis, etc. Black Greeks join these orgs as well, of course, but a lot of black greeks are also only in their orgs. They prefer to perform community service through their org.

PERHAPS (a big perhaps) if NPC/NIC orgs stressed the "giving back" part of the lifetime committment, people would be encouraged to join alumni/alumnae chapters.

Agreed! Well said! You know I'm always lovin' what you say!

I think the main thing about what makes the conferences different is the impact on their respective communities. When I was in HS, it wasn't Tri-Delta or Kappa Sig that was giving out scholarships, hosting debutante balls, or sponsoring SAT study sessions. It was the local AKA, Delta, Que, Alpha, and Zeta chapters that were out there, prominently working to uplift their communities. Generations of black children have seen the work that each of the Divine Nine has done...and frankly, a much smaller percentage of white youth have seen similar with the NPC groups, and the sense that it is a lifelong commitment is much more obvious within the NPHC.

The importance each conference (and its member groups) holds within its constituent community impacts everything it does, from recruitment to alumnae/i participation.