Greek Decline

[RedefinedDiva]

Originally posted by Marie
#1. More Blacks are pursuing majors in the maths and sciences, which does make it impossible to even consider pledging and graduating in 4 years. With the hectic schedules that many engineering and pre-med students have, it is difficult enough to stay afloat even w/all your time dedicated to school. Let alone trying to pass all your subjects, while dedicating all of your time to an org.

Like 2D stated earlier, I don't buy this one myself. I know of many friends from UG that majored in math and sciences and still had time to pursue membership. Damn near every single member of XYZ fraternity on my UG campus were either Engineering or Mathematics majors and they pulled it off. It takes time management and complete dedication in your goal. Trust me, it can be done.

[OthelloStreet]

Originally posted by Marie
This is a very good topic, and there are a couple of things that I have observed from other GDIs at my school.

#1. More Blacks are pursuing majors in the maths and sciences, which does make it impossible to even consider pledging and graduating in 4 years. With the hectic schedules that many engineering and pre-med students have, it is difficult enough to stay afloat even w/all your time dedicated to school. Let alone trying to pass all your subjects, while dedicating all of your time to an org.

#2. Many of the UG chapters don't seem to have very much to offer. At my school the avg. chapter GPA for BGLOs is around 2.5. I think only one org. even breaks the 3.0 line. This is compared to an avg. chapter GPA of around 3.5 for WGLOs. That fact might be a deterent for a student w/a 4.0. Also, many of the UG chapters are not doing very much community service or quality campus programing. So many blacks students seem to feel that they can join the Student Government or Black Students Association or the local NAACP, and still get to network w/other dedicated students while also participating in community/campus involvement. Lastly, going Greek is known for building bonds of brotherhood and sisterhood. However, when you see chapter members fighting with each other at parties, stabbing each other in the back or stealing from the house, it makes all the bonding stuff less believable.

Now I really feel that students who come to college w/the intention of joining an org. are able to see past the negatives on their campus or work through the difficulties of their hectic college lives. However, students who ordinarily may have gotten to college and then decided to go Greek, are choosing other alternatives that work much better for them.

Marie

AKA2D I do see and respect what you are saying, but I think Marie may have said it better than I did. Especially with number one. Not everyone can be THAT organized in undergrad to fully commit to the goals of that organization along with the majors they have along with other OUTSIDE commitments that people on campus may not be aware of. There are people in organizations that have "float" or "easy" majors that don't do anything for their orgs. and people see that too.

Now I didn't mean to imply that just because your major is more "challenging" then others that you can't pledge an undergrad chapter. I am saying that a B. S. or a B. A. in some degrees are not the same as they were maybe four or five years ago. Many schools are updating and changing their degree requirements for some majors, therefore making them more rigorous now than they ever have been. This is done in part to receive the Accreditations and make their programs worth more on paper. I think that some students who can do undergrad and balance the responsibilities that come with it with their studies should definitely do it. But to the others who KNOW THEY CAN’T, then they need to be fair to the organization, other prospective and themselves and wait until a “better” time comes along.

As far as the disagreement about being closer to older and grad chapter members, well, that is how many people get their first impressions of what the org is supposed to be about. That is what a "lifetime commitment" is supposed to be right? Join undergrad if you can (and Lord knows there are obstacles in the way to prevent that from happening if you know what I mean) and stay active in Grad. I think the question is are people doing that now? I know of people who spend X amount of dollars just for the “right” to wear three or four letters, which I think is Ludacris and they don’t give a damn about what the organizations are supposed to be about.

I guess that goes to say that the perceived “Greek Decline” is two fold:
1. The prospectives not being interested or able to devote the time they know the org of their choice needs.

2. Actions by the current members who make the org (because they are members) unappealing at times.

Neither or which should be a deterrent, that is true. But I think people do what they feel is best in their current situations.

[Honeykiss1974]

Some students with more difficult and intense majors (engineering, pre-med, etc.) may have the perception or have heard that "when you pledge a BGLO your GPA drops". Obviously, they won't know the "real deal" until they apply and get accepted, but some students don't want to risk it (especially if they are the first person in their family to go to college). If an individual's first priority in college is the get an education, they may not want to jepardize that for ANY reason.

Not saying that this is the END ALL of reasons, but just something to ponder.

Rain Man, I forgot about non-NPHC orgs, Multicultural orgs, etc. We just have NPHC on campus at my HBCU (except for KKPsi and TBS) so I don't know the impact (if any) that these orgs have on campuses where they do exist among NPHC orgs.

[DaddyzLilGrl]

Being a non-greek HBCU grad. The reason why I I'm not greek is 3-fold.....

1) I was an athlete.... that may not seem like a good reason, but my sport is heavy into travel in the Spring. With rush being mandatory.... I was never in a position to go... without trying to plot not being missed by my coach or team. It didn't work out.

2) When I arrived on campus, the sorority I was interested in was serving out the last year of a suspension. They were back on campus the next Fall and by Spring the presented a line 100+. Not to knock a 100+ line, but in seeking to be apart of something exclusive,
at that time, the politics made greek life unattrative for me.
3) Choices.... With my sport, scholarship and rush.... things never seemed to come together. I came to the conclusion that if it was meant to be, it will be. I went on to play in the NCAA's, graduate and get Grad. Assistanship and earn my Master's. Still a non-greek HBCU grad, but happy with my decisions

[Sahara]

In many of the non-HBCU schools, the intake for BGLOs are usually small. However, from what I've seen & heard, when such a school has a large intake, rumors start to fly about the nature of their process.
Therefore, many the students in these schools intentionally try to ensure that their intake lines remain small.

[bro_strawter]

Plain and simple, its not a big thing to go greek anymore. Alot students can care less about a AKA, and Delta, etc. I hope I'm not offending anyone, just keeping it real. I often say that today's college students do not realize the importance of the D9. It's either that, or they simply don't care.

Alot of things have changed over the years. One friend once told me that "there isn't a great need to join the black fraternities and sororities as it was in the 50s, % 60s....there are new and more refreshing options of organizations to choose from now...etc"

[nachural]

Well at my school there is a citywide chapter. This coming year there will only be 3 AKAs on my campusand 4 from the other school- all of whom will be graduating. In fact most of the BGLOs chapters are citywide except for Delta who will have a whopping 19 in the fall!!

Since most of the BGLOs dont recruit because their noses are in the air a lot of blacks dont know alot about them or what they stand for. Plus their programs are not posted until a day or two before except for their website which only the really interested know about. If the chapters did more things on the campus that were not just for interests, non interested black students might become interests. If the programs are good they will appeal to those who were ignorant to the greek world. The eliteness of the organizations are good- but if no one knows about them except for a few legacies then why would they want to join. They just need to be more active and more visable. The AKAs on my campus are NEVER seen except at their programs who only interests know about. If I ever become greek I will definately want the whole school to know about my org and also want my programs to be well supported not only by my interests. People need to look at the orgs and be like "they are realy doing big things, I need to be doing big things too."

nachural

[sigmadiva]

Originally posted by bro_strawter
Alot of things have changed over the years. One friend once told me that "there isn't a great need to join the black fraternities and sororities as it was in the 50s, % 60s....there are new and more refreshing options of organizations to choose from now...etc"

I kinda think this is true too. During the 50's & 60's, the ONLY social outlets that Blacks had were provided by the then D8 - cotillions, balls, debutante parties and dances, and other groups like the Links, Jack and Jill and the Boule' (Sigma Pi Phi). The definition of being an elite Black back then was to be a member of one of these groups. Now, you can be an elite Black and not have to move in a D9-based social group. I mean it is still impressive to be part of the D9, but NOT necessary as it once was.

[AKA2D '91]

Originally posted by bro_strawter
Plain and simple, its not a big thing to go greek anymore. Alot students can care less about a AKA, and Delta, etc. I hope I'm not offending anyone, just keeping it real. I often say that today's college students do not realize the importance of the D9. It's either that, or they simply don't care.

None taken....

I don't know if I would agree, especially among the HBCUs. I wish we could poll those UG chapters represented on GC to see how many females attended their rush either this upcoming semester or Spring 2004. If what you are saying truly IS the case, then we will see that sororities, especially would have no more than "20" females attend their rush as opposed to the 300+ that have historically attended.

Othello,
When we say LIFELONG COMMITMENT, it means to your ORGANIZATION, NOT the members. See, I can stay in my chapter for "x" number of years, then I move. Once I move, I leave the chapter AND the members of that chapter behind. With the move, I learn new members (of the next chapter I join) and I become acquainted with new endeavors that THAT chapter is involved with. So you see, the LIFELONG COMMITMENT is to ALPHA KAPPA ALPHA, not the members.

[MsFoxyLoxy77]

As an interest I will try to give my opinion on a local and national level. Locally at my university greeks and greek life is discussed constantly. I honestly feel that if all the blacks on my campus were polled and were asked if they would go greek if they would be guaranteed membership into the org of their choice atleast 85% would say yes. However, as has been said before not all of the orgs of the D9 have always been on campus.
Also I think another problem on my campus and probably on others is among other things a combination of envy, rudeness, jealousy, and pride.

Envy: A lot of college students (esp. 1st gen.) are surprised at the respect and deference alloted to college students. Instead of simply taking the situation(s) for what they are, they turn completely against anything that is remotely greek and spread their frustration and discord to their friends and so on.
Ex. My best friend (who is now greek , but wasn't when she told me the story) told me about a highly anticipated university sponsered event on her campus. Well people were lined up around the corner waiting to be let in for the start of the event. It happened that the some of the greeks in SGA helped approve this event so they were sort of the door people. Well right before the start of the event a good number of greeks from various BGLOs came to the entrance asking to be let in and of course they were in the process getting the best seats in the house. They went right past people who were waiting for atleast an hour. My friend was at the front and took the situation for what it was, but some indivuals behind her were visibly heated. One even went up to a few members at the door and said "We've been waiting here for over an hour just to see you let your sisters, brothers, and your friends in."

Jealousy: because greeks are often have certain priveleges that outsiders disagree with the "I'm going to prove I'm just as good as you" and/or "I'm going to prove I don't give a d*** who you think you are " attitudes have become a popular attitude for those who are newly exposed to college life or to those who disagree with "the way things are" atmosphere has grown. Many non-greeks who have seen people they considered friends or associates "change" often take these attitudes as well. I've overheard people comment, "We used to hang out freshman year but ever since she became an ABC she thinks she's better than somebody."
Ex. I knew a sisterfriend (never a friend of mine by the way) whom I was formely introduced to my freshman when attending one of the first sorority sponsored events I'd ever attended. Well unknow to me she had what I will kindly refer to as a negative name for herself. I truly believed that either she was told she wasn't making a good name for herself or had an epiphany one day and realized that her actions were making her look bad. Mind you I don't take counsel to unfounded heresay, I visually saw what she was like. Well 2 years from when I first met her, she came to an event this summer looking a step above horrible, snatched food from the snack table, walked around the entire room liked she owned, and my friend overheard her muttering, "I can eat the food ABC bought I ain't no IG, the IGs can't eat the food...they want me to act like them..." Then she showed up at another event that I had dragged my roomate to and gave my roomie the evil eye when she saw that my roomate was talking to two members.

Rudeness: Although I am an interest (and I hope I'm not offending anyone) I have noticed some cattiness among some fraternities and sororities. I do think a few, a small few let membership go to their head a little. However, I do think the decline in desire for membership in this case is in part due more to people not understanding how excited one can be when they finally are a member. I also think TOO many non-greek have delved into the affairs of greek members and overall greek life. Why does a non-greek know when XYZ is having a "coming out show" (hope I'm not being politically incorrect) and practically all the names of the new members? Why do they know which orgs are having a probably with each other? Why do they know who was not accepted for membership and exactly how this unaccepeted person was told he/she wasn't accepted. All of this puts a damper on the true nature of the orgs and it makes people not want to pursue membership.

Ex. my favorite cousin was at a club meeting on a day after this huge greek stepshow. The members of the club were commenting on who they thought did the best and the girl commented "Yeah, they were good but their attitudes are foul...So and so told me that she saw a girl go up to this one member and as for a flyer for an event an the member said there is one on the floor pick it up." Now I don't know if this is true and like I said I'm not quick to believe heresay but I can tell you no news spreads like bad news.

Fear: I feel a lot of people are afraid of rejection. I think a lot of people have heard the horror stories of individuals actively pursuing membership and supporting ABC's events for a long time and still getting rejected for some petty reason. Nowadays I feel many believe that obtaining membership has been put on such a high pedestal that its unobtainable. Many people here that they have to look good, they have to be popular, they have to be involved in organizations like student government or political/community service groups, they have to pay an astronaumical intake fee of $1000 more or less (not to mention the money they have already spent on gas driving to events, or buying raffle tickets, or any other activity that one has to pay to enter...etc.), they have to be extremely nice to the members even if by chance they are rubbed the wrong way, and they have to have a GPA of ATLEAST 3.0 (although 3.0 is borderline anything above that is even more preferable) even though the minimum national gpa says it 2.5 (unless you are friends with a member). These are not my personal opinions.

Ex. my freshman year my ex roomate told me her mom was an ABC but she would never try on our campus because she is fat and she doesn't think that she would fit in.

Pride: Some people have heard that they have to be a "do girl or boy." Short and simple and add the fact that they might not get in and you get a "Hell naw" reaction.

[AKA_Monet]

It is NOT because many African Americans are pursuing much more difficult majors that stop them from pursuing ANY of the D9's because they want to keep up their GPAs!!!

Why?

Because, I PLEDGED, ABOVE GROUND, WHEN IT WAS LEGAL WHAT SOME WOULD CONSIDER AS HAZING NOW--AS A MOLECULAR BIOLOGY MAJOR WITH 5 OF MY BIG SISTERS IN MY CHEM AND BIO CLASSES AT SPELMAN COLLEGE ON THE AESOP'S FABLE'S LINE AFTER THE INCANDESCENT 56 LINE!!!

SPELMAN ADMINISTRATION AT THAT TIME REQUIRED ALL LADIES WHO WANTED TO PLEDGE TO HAVE A 3.0 CUMULATIVE GPA!!! WITH A 3.8 SEMESTER GPA!!!

MY LINE WAS HUUUUUGGGGGEEEE!!!! AND WE STILL STAYED OUT OF TROUBLE AND ABOVE GROUND FOR THE OFFICIAL 2 WEEKS!!!

MOST OF MY LINE SISTERS ARE DOCTORS, LAWYERS AND ENGINEERS!!! ONE OF MY BIG SISTERS IS A USDA CHEMIST!!! EVEN I HAVE A Ph.D. in Molecular Genetics!!!

So if you have the dream, want to pursuit it and ultimately desire it, then you don't wimp out on what you really want do!!! YOU GOT TIME TO EAT AT TGI FRIDAY'S AND SPEND $50 ON A FRIDAY NIGHT... YOU GOT TIME TO SLEEP DON'T CHA??? YOU CAN DO WHATEVA YOU REALLY WANNA DO... SO WHAT'S THE DEAL? REALLY?

AND I GRADUATED OUTTA SPELMAN IN FOUR YEARS

Besides I had folks tell me that at the Naval Academy, they pledged if they really wanted to by going over to DC. And it is totally against the United States Military regulations!!!

So, it ain't impossible if one really wants it and is willing to make the sacrifice it takes.

And after being an "ivy" for months--my grades were better in both biochemistry and genetics after I pledged!!! Hmmmm...

If anything, I agree with Doggystyle 'cuz when stuff what above ground, there weren't any doubts as to what the dealy-o was!!!

Dayum!! I remember this one "pyramid" at the time sitting in her room studying her ass off on the Wednesday night before Thanksgiving!!! And we were all like DAYUM, she's really studying... And the book that was out was chemistry and stuh...

So don't give me that stuh to my Soror AKA2D91 and many brother and sister greek friends about keeping up GPAs, 'cuz many GC greeks have higher degrees, too and they still pledged undergrad...

[Lady2000]

I attend a predominately white university and I have seen that there are a number of reasons that keep people away from joining a BGLO.

1.The first is that the AA population is so very small that it is hard for some organizations to keep enough members to keep the chapter active.

2.The second reason is that there have been very bad events to happen on my campus to where the view of Black Greek Life is very dismal to alot of people.

3. The third is as a result of the second, org. are getting suspended/expelled from campus, leaving only a few for both men/women to choose from. If someone's choice is not on campus for their entire time in college then they set sights on grad. or just forget the whole greek experience entirely.

4. At my university, there is an overwhelmingly low amount of greek unity between the different orgs. and sometimes within an org. I've heard some greeks talk about other orgs. and even their own orgs. sometimes it even comes to blows where people have gotten hurt. To alot of non-greeks at my university this is a turnoff and if it happens once then it will talked about for years to come.

5. Money. Alot of the AA students on my campus have to pay their own way and with the cost of education going up every year, there is just not enough money to go around.

From school to school reasons differ but these are just a few of the things that go on at my school to make it difficult for anyone even the most dedicated to join an org. simply because if it's not one thing then it's the other.

[Senusret I]

Originally posted by enlightenment06
What steps can be taken to bring back Black Greek life and then take it to the next level?

1) Make an impression on parents. Volunteer during move-in and parents weekend and wear your letters. By making a connection with parents and family members, one will leave a positive impression on the people who are most likely paying the tuition. Supportive families will have less doubts about the child seeking membership should they divulge their interest.

2) Set the standard of maturity on your campus. Be ladies and gentlemen. Don't fight. Don't smoke weed. Drink responsibly.

3) Get involved in the Black Student Alliance and NAACP and MEAN IT! Don't join because you want to increase the visibility of your org and outshine another...do it because you care. Just as we tell aspirants that you will find Greeks if you do community service, we will find aspirants in the same place.

4) Cooperate with your administration. Work with your local grad chapter or advisor and get your administrators invited to grad chapter events. If an administrator sees that you are reaching out to them, and they understand the lifetime committment, maybe they will sympathize when the chapter enters lean times.

5) Smile every once in a while. Life isn't that bad.

6) Be a sister or a brother to ALL sisters and brothers. Not everyone wants to join your organization, sometimes they're just trying to read what's on your jacket.

7) Write a press release EVERY SINGLE TIME you have an event and submit it to the campus newspaper.

8) Make sure that you appear in the yearbook!

9) Keep your website updated at least once a month.

10) Minority Student Weekends. Nearly every non-HBCU has one of these. Make sure your brothers and sisters AT LEAST volunteer their dorm rooms for prospective students at these events. If that's not possible, throw a party, have a yard show, or do some kind of event during those weekends to entertain the prospectives. That not only leaves a positive impression of your org, but the school. More people of color at the school, the bigger the pool of candidates.


Just wanted to offer some solutions since this could easily become a blame game.

[REIKI]

According to statistics, greek life has been in steady decline for the last two decades. Many of the top, elite, institutions have done away with greek life entirely and a number of public institutions only allow greek organizations on their campuses because of the 1st amendment right of assembly, but quickly ban them as soon as there is solid reason to. From an administrative perspective, as long as the presence of greek letter organizations unnecessarily places institutions in a compromising position of escalating liability, then it is likely that greek membership will continue to decline simply based on the decrease in active chapters.

Having attended an HBCU I can say that a number of the reasons listed so far are very applicable to that environment. A bad image does alot to hurt any organization, so greek letter organizations are not exempt from the effects of that alone. Personally I can say that the biggest turn offs are attitude and hazing. No one in their right mind wants to be disrespected or abused. Being "elite", or exclusive, and acting like an elitist are two different things, and unfortunately many greeks apparently don't understand the difference. Until members of greek lettered organizations learn to first respect themselves, secondly respect their respective organizations, and thirdly, respect prospective members, it is probable that the decline in membership will continue unabated.

[AKA_Monet]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lady2000
I attend a predominately white university and I have seen that there are a number of reasons that keep people away from joining a BGLO.

1.The first is that the AA population is so very small that it is hard for some organizations to keep enough members to keep the chapter active.

None of the NPHC organizations discriminate and there are several chapters that have active members from other cultures in their organizations...

2.The second reason is that there have been very bad events to happen on my campus to where the view of Black Greek Life is very dismal to alot of people.

That is an issue with the presence of a graduate chapter overseeing and taking responsibility for the undergraduate chapter's actions... There is only so much control an adult has over a bunch of young adults... Can your university be held liable for events that occur off campus? Legally, no... Civilly (sp.) ?Maybe... So if it's tough for the unversity to control it's students, how hard do you think it is for a graduate advisor to control wayward members???

3. The third is as a result of the second, org. are getting suspended/expelled from campus, leaving only a few for both men/women to choose from. If someone's choice is not on campus for their entire time in college then they set sights on grad. or just forget the whole greek experience entirely.

Guess then you havta forget it... I dunno... Didn't experience that...

4. At my university, there is an overwhelmingly low amount of greek unity between the different orgs. and sometimes within an org. I've heard some greeks talk about other orgs. and even their own orgs. sometimes it even comes to blows where people have gotten hurt. To alot of non-greeks at my university this is a turnoff and if it happens once then it will talked about for years to come.

Again that has to do with a Graduate Advisory council fully sponsored by the respective universities... The connections one builds are demanded by the collective conditions that one experienced upon one's indoctrination... If one's indoctrination was different--even slightly, there can be conflicts.

ALL universities have a student group resources or advisory committee and every group must be legal with the oversight and activity at the university... There are administrators that get PAID to provide conflict resolution. Many African American groups fail to seek that service and it is well hidden. It requires much finesse, something that I personally see many of the non-HBCU's failure to provide their culturally diverse population. But that's another topic for another day...

5. Money. Alot of the AA students on my campus have to pay their own way and with the cost of education going up every year, there is just not enough money to go around.

Folks got money to goto those dances. Folks got money to pay for dem clothes... Folks got money to do they thang... So, dayum, when did they decide they ain't got no money, now?