Greek Decline

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by IotaNet
Slow down Sir -

The relevance of BGLO's is not in question here. The focus and understanding of our market is the key.

BGLO's have always provided a valuable service to our respective communities and have provided a valuable training ground (As well as networking opportunities) to its members. What we have to do is to make sure we understand the "buying criteria" of our market, i.e. prospective members.

So how does the membership make its org more marketable without feeling that they are "lowering their standards"? Or is the focus and understanding of the market strictly for information purposes only?

I only ask this because it sounds like a double-edged sword, in that is the Greek decline a real problem for these orgs or just a perceived one? I always figured in any event, Greek decline or not, the orgs would figure, "Those that become members will do what it takes to make it so, and those that don't, won't."

So, while I see where you are coming from regarding the need to understand the current student market and I wholeheartedly agree with it, but assuming the orgs all share the aforementioned mentality, what good does that market info do?

Or are we making much ado about nothing?

PS: this has been a GREAT discussion thread, everyone! Keep up the good work!!

[Empress0105]

Well, I am a member of two non Pan-Hell orgs on my campus

Tau Beta Sigma and Gamma Sigma Sigma have provided me with life lessons that I do not think I would have obtained to the same extent had I joined a Pan-Hell undergraduate sorority chapter. Both of my chapters are smaller (and unlike at some of the schools mentioned throughout this post) HU has fairly decent sized D9 Sorority chapters (to say the least).

Tau Beta Sigma was a great decision for me because it was formal recognition of outstanding work in the HU bands, and I wanted to continue that excellence via organized service to the bands that I contributed to. I wanted to be that example to the girl (or guy) who was in a band here and just wasn't feeling they could or should do their best....

Gamma Sigma Sigma, I served as the first rechartering President...and TRUST I learned the rules of HU red tape and double standards when my RAC would constantly get d*cked over by various school offices and officials for other orgs. More than anything Gamma Sig (and the rechartering process) taught me persistence and patience, as well as validated and supported my leadership skills and abilities. It also made me look at certain orgs with the crooked eye, due to the silliness that their membership presented my RAC with. (dumb stuff about colors and calls, the stuff that means little in the great scheme of Greek-life)

With both orgs (as well as other orgs on campus I am not a part of, but have close working relationships with) I could see the membership for not only letter-wearing icons...but as REAL students doign REAL work (in the case of Gamma Sig, our alumni and sorors from Tuskegee and FAMU provided that imagery). It wasn't just a flyer that more than likely would be ripped down in an hour by some random prospect, it wasn't a fear of saying hello, or having the wrong color on, or even not knowing how to approach them and ask a sincere question. It wasn't taking credit for work done by prospects.... Now, work was put in to become a part of both, don't get me wrong ....but I just felt more of a personality with TBS and GSS....whereas with some of the larger orgs on campus (D9 and otherwise) it's like a mini army of colors and no true passion behind the letters....if that makes sense. I feel as if on my campus, especially being alpha chapter for the majority of the D9...most people don't join because of what the active memebership is doing, but because of "images" that they feel each org represents....

I read earlier that if you don't get along with the active membership then why join in a graduate chapter....because those same people will be your brothers and sisters regardless. It is different having the same ideals and values as someone than actually liking them. We are all HUMAN before we are Greek...and I actually can respect that person better than the one who says either they will join because they fit the "image" of that org, or that the entire national org is whack because of such and such chapter on their campus...

that and to be honest...I'm a little maxed out on the undergrad level for memberships....3 bands, two sororities and a State Club are enough for 4 years! I don't think I would serve any other org justice while still active in the undergarduate sense to everything else.....why join a chapter you won't signifigantly contriubute to?


also...let's keep it real...not every chapter is doign what they are supposed to do....and not EVERY sorority sister is your soror....but because you are in the org together, you respect the fact that they follow the same creed as you....even if you think they can do better

[IotaNet]

TRUST [me] I learned the rules of HU red tape and double standards when my RAC would constantly get d*cked over by various school offices and officials for other orgs. ... It also made me look at certain orgs with the crooked eye, due to the silliness that their membership presented my RAC with. (dumb stuff about colors and calls, the stuff that means little in the great scheme of Greek-life)

Whassup, Soror!

As someone who was an undergraduate BEFORE Iota was a member of the NPHC, I can feel you on those points.

[gamma_girl52]

Well said soror! I also feel you coming from a charter member's perspective (and I chartered GSS at a PWI). It's the same thing.

[sigmadiva]

Originally posted by Empress0105


.and I actually can respect that person better than the one who says either they will join because they fit the "image" of that org,

That is why it is important to not believe the hype. Some people do join for the wrong reasons. But, eventually those people will either 'get on track' and follow the tennets of the org, or they will fade away......

One needs to join the right org for them.




/getting on Pan-Hel soapbox/

I also find it funny that some people in non-D9 orgs are soooo critical of the D9, but yet they, the org, imitates some of the things done by D9 orgs.........

You can flame me now.

/getting off Pan-Hel soapbox/

[gamma_girl52]

Originally posted by sigmadiva
I also find it funny that some people in non-D9 orgs are soooo critical of the D9, but yet they, the org, imitates some of the things done by D9 orgs.........
[/B]

.....which is why I don't even get into that anymore...

I work for my organization. I let others work for their organization. For me, it is just that simple. I know I have nothing but respect for every greek organization despite what they think or say about mine. And I have heard everything in the book.

I hear what's being said, and I hope folks hear me when I tell my side when presented with a question about my sorority. Then we can agree or disagree on it, but at the end of the day I still got work to do for Gamma Sig and you have work to do for XYZ.

I am just speaking for me and GSS. There are so many other GLO's out there doing the same thing, so I feel where NPHCers are coming from and why they feel the way they feel.

[Honeykiss1974]

These last few pages have been really interesting and I appreciate the mature level of discussion of these different POVs. With that said, can we keep this discussion on its current track and not bring up the same ol' tired arguments? There are TONS of threads on here that do that and I was just really beganing to enjoy a nice conversation about Greek Life (for once).

Carry on.....

[southernelle25]

My on a few issues raised in this discussion:

1. The actions of a few, rumors, attitudes,...

Folks should put their misconceptions and negative experiences aside for a minute and remember that these organizations were created to lead, serve, and uplift our community, not the other way around. If interests run across bad apples (such people are everywhere), then they should do what has been advised so often before - research! Familiarize themselves with the contributions that have been made by thousands of other members, locally and worldwide. Surely, those examples will outshine the few bad apples and inspire them to work even harder to become not only a member, but a respected member?! As for me, I never experienced any 'nasty' attitudes. Even if I had, I wouldn't allow a few petty individuals to shape my opinion - not in regards to this or any other matter.

2. Don't know any members, members are not seen, too nervous to approach them...

I agree that publicity is important - not necessarily for the sake of potential interests, but to hold off detrimental University measures which might arise if the school comes to believe that the organization is not as active as it should be. That said, if an interest is involved in their community and their organization of choice is also involved, then he/she should automatically see and come in contact with members on a relatively frequent basis... I would think. (Where I live, they are actually difficult to avoid, but then again this region is one of the largest in membership. )

And how can anyone be afraid or too nervous to approach the ladies/gents they claim to want to be their sisters/brothers? I guess that is why interests should establish friendships with these people even before they decide that the organization is one in which they would like to pursue membership. I wouldn't just up and claim interest in a service-oriented organization full of people I have never actually seen serving.

3. 'History History History'

I agree that members have a responsibility to know the substantive history of their organizations, so as to show knowledge and pride in that before the public. However, I would add that WE ALL should be proud and knowledgeable of OUR history as a people. You just can not study AfAm history without coming across all the organizations founded by young black men and women through the years. Becoming knowledgeable about these things would open a lot of eyes to what these organizations represent (beyond the social events), and that alone would spark increased interest (from people who are interested for the right reasons).

4. Other Orgs offer 'academic support, networking, and no hassles for entry'

I belong to an organization tied to my profession, but that doesn't sway my interest a'tall.

[IotaNet]

@southernelle25

I hear your points and they are excellent ones. That said, we as Greeks need to do a better job of "Checking ourselves" and our behavior.

A very dear friend of mine (Who is an AKA Silver Star) told me recently ...

"Alpha Kappa Alpha is not about social status or personal glorification. Alpha Kappa Alpha is an opportunity to serve"

That was one of the best comments about Greekdom that I've ever heard! Unfortunately, all Greeks (including many AKA's) do NOT comport themselves that way.

What I say next means no disrespect to AKA. Seasoned Greekchatters know that;

* My Mother is an AKA (For those who don't see this post: My Mom, The Neophyte)
* One of my Dearest cousins is an AKA (For those that don't, see this post: An Appropriate gift for a Neophyte
* I have designed websites for AKA (Click here to see one: Theta Rho Omega Chapter )
* My Significant other (and potential fiancee) is an AKA!

My love and respect for Alpha Kappa Alpha is well known and documented and I don't mean to single AKA out.

With that said, I have been Greek for over 25 years. I have been an Iota since BEFORE we were members of the NPHC and have experienced the best and worst of what NPHC Greeks have to offer. Based on that experience, I have no problem saying the following:

Many of our fellow Greeks walk around with an attitude of "Better than thou/Prettier than thou/Haughtier than thou." What type of image does that send to potential members?

"Pretty and Saditty" C'mon, now? When did saditty become something to be proud of?

We all know of campus situations where young women were rejected for things like ...

* "She/He actually wore pink (or Red or Blue) on campus one day. Humpf - she must think she's already a Soror."

* "I heard that she was making eyes at my ex-boyfriend"

* "She/He had nerve enough to drive a green (or Red or Blue) car."

* "She hasn't gotten to know any of the Sorors/She never comes to any of the events"

and/or the converse:

* "He is always kissing the Brothers' behinds/He is so pressed that she shows up to every event -- she must think he's a Brother already."

And my all-time favorite:

* "If you want to be a member, do your research."
and the converse

* "He/she asked inappropriate questions."

See my point? We sometimes walk around like we are God's gift to the world -- just because we joined an organization. And the killer is, while many of us do good work, many of the benefits we enjoy as members of our organizataions is due to the work of people that came way before us. We are literally standing on the shoulders of giants.

Attitudinally, we really need to check ourselves sometimes.

As always, I invite all replies and rebuttals.

[sigmadiva]

Originally posted by IotaNet


"Pretty and Saditty" C'mon, now? When did saditty become something to be proud of?

But I *am* pretty and saditty!!

And my all-time favorite:

* "If you want to be a member, do your research."
and the converse

* "He/she asked inappropriate questions."

Yeah, this bothers me too. I really don't have a problem with people asking me about membership. I'd much rather they ask, than they go off with wrong / incomplete information. Granted, some info is easily obtained from a website, but if you have a limited concept about greek life, you may not know what questions are inappropriate and which are not.

Sure, greeks are out in the community and you can see the work they do, but until the interested person asks, they will never know. And, all of that community service of the thousands of members means nothing if that one interest has that one bad encounter with a particular greek. As a greek, you are 'rushing' all the time whether you realize it or not.

Attitudinally, we really need to check ourselves sometimes.

I agree.

[AKA2D '91]

Originally posted by IotaNet

My love and respect for Alpha Kappa Alpha is well known and documented and I don't mean to single AKA out.


[/B]

Yeah... Yeah
But you did AND on the AKA board! What.friggin.nerve!

You've been MIA for a lonnnnnggggggggggg time and you come on here tryin' to act up!

Dayum!
NGF!

[IotaNet]

Originally posted by AKA2D '91
You've been MIA for a lonnnnnggggggggggg time and you come on here tryin' to act up!

Awwww ...

Ya'll know I LUBS ya'll doe, right?

[brownsugar952]

Since it seems like the main reason why there is a decline is because of the decline of quality members, what are greeks doing to help students get better grades? Any study tables? Programs on how to succeed in college? Maybe it was just on my campus but the BGLOs did nothing to encourage students to stay in school and do well while there. For all of the campuses that are experiencing a decline in quality members, maybe your chapter should think about what you could do to change that fact instead of sitting around and complaining about how your fellow students aren't "good enough."

Maybe my campus was a rare situation, but if a person comes to campus without any prior knowledge of XYZ and they still don't see anything about the org when they are there, why would they research it? Why should someone express interest if the members on campus aren't doing anything to gain interest?

[stardusttwin]

Let me preface by saying I'm not a member & when I was in undergrad many years ago everything was above ground...

what are greeks doing to help students get better grades? Any study tables? Programs on how to succeed in college?

Why is up to fellow students to encourage others to get their act together?? Your tuition bill and looming student loan repayment schedule should be all the motivation you need to get your act together! "How to succeed/How to study" are things that one should attend either in orientation or PRIOR to getting to school. Its truly not up to fellow students to encourage each other to stay in school - if the quality of students is truly an issue then the problem is with admissions NOT with BGLO's being too strict.

Students today are overly concerned (IMO) with GPA's and the focus has contributed to over inflated grades as oppossed to genuinely well rounded students who are involved with a couple of orgs and maintaing a B+/A- avg.

If the chapters at your school were really doing nothing then the chapter would die out wouldn't it? Like I said it was different at my school - interest was earned by all through the programs they held throughout the year. Those that knew what they wanted to pursue would be sure to attend everything but it was not unheard of for all students regardless of desire to go to another org's event just to see what they were doing (even those with no interest in greek life at all). Yeah some shallow freshmen would always make a premature declaration based on the most recent step show winners but they would soon learn that ALL of the chapters were deeper than that & if you didn't get to know them you would never get anywhere.

It seems that today's youth want EVERYTHING handed to them...

[AKA_Monet]

Originally posted by brownsugar952
Since it seems like the main reason why there is a decline is because of the decline of quality members, what are greeks doing to help students get better grades? Any study tables? Programs on how to succeed in college? Maybe it was just on my campus but the BGLOs did nothing to encourage students to stay in school and do well while there. For all of the campuses that are experiencing a decline in quality members, maybe your chapter should think about what you could do to change that fact instead of sitting around and complaining about how your fellow students aren't "good enough."

brownsugar952--

Before anyone tries to blast you for posting this kind of information, let me be the first one to tell you I appreciate your courage to explain it like it is...

Most of the folks that have posted are waaaay outside of college except for the few who are not in greek-lettered organizations. I for instance graduated from Spelman College in 1990. Some of us on Greekchat have graduate degrees from graduate or professional schools. I for instance have a Ph.D.

That is just to say that many of us that commenting on the issues here have been outside of the collegiate system for awhile. That is all I am saying.

As I understand it, you are saying what seems to you what it looks like on a college campus. So, I am guessing you are still in college?

I think what is at issue is ALL of the NPHC organizations as well as others have DEMANDS placed on them from their graduate or alumni organizations, as well as their International Headquarters. It is the International Headquarters that demands that all members of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. who are undergraduates maintain a strict GPA to be members in the chapter and we hold our members to that strict code. However, we are unable to prevent members and some chapters representing my Sorority in paraphrenalia at various locations. At best we get outsider reports.

The other issue is the undergraduate members are themselves college students that are trying graduate also. As alumni members, we also strive to graduate our own from college. Herein lies the problem, we can barely get our own out of school, yet we demand interests to come walking in the door already prepared...

Now, that is unfair. But that is EXACTLY what most if not all academic institutions are requiring their incoming freshmen and transfers to have. So, should we as NPHC members have lower standards? All of us say a resounding "NO". We want the best and the brightest... But the best and the brightest are not always the one's who gravitate to our organizations, for whatever reason...

The other thing that many of our young people suffer from not being prepared for college, but the university reserves a slot for students because it looks good on paper for "diversity's sake"... The sheer numbers of entering college freshmen who are African American who do not need remedial education is small at best, especially at a large mainstream university. At a HBCU, there are different issues. I am not talking about HBCU's. I am only talking about mainstream universities.

Most of those young people barely make it into college. The barely make it into college are the "selection pool" that we have. If you have all 9 groups on a mainstream university campus, what straws are you grasping for? Just by population alone, you don't have much...

How do you better prepare students? Isn't that what high school is suppose to be doing? Almost all the alumni chapters of NPHC organizations have active programs for high school students. However that often gets lost in the transition to college level coursework. Why? My theory is you just don't have that many professors of color on a mainstream campus in the majors our young folks often pursue initially, i.e. Pre-Med, Pre-law, Engineering... Now I can attest to that. I am starting my pursuit for an associate professorship at a mainstream university, do you have any idea how competitive it is to get these positions--aside from the fact that "they" don't want you there in the first place??? And this process take a minimum of a year...

You stated "how does one succeed in college"? You should have learned that before you got into college, period. That is what the school you attend demands of you, that is why you were accepted on based on your application. The "entities at your school" have given you all the tools and resources you need to succeed in college, so there should be no reason why you should not... Right??? Do you really believe that??? Because, personally, I don't and I have several years of experience and research to back my position up. It has to do with how African American students learn, in general... The HBCU's have the hardline approach to learning, that is why 80% to 90% of their "matriculating" student population graduates--meaning the young folks that stay in school. Most of our African American student drop out of college, period. And the mainstream institutions could care less if we even stay...

So no amount of test banking, study skill sets, etc. will change the deficiencies that the bulk of the entering African American college student faces, especially at mainstream universities...

Yes, higher powers must be employed to tackle that issue alone. And that takes money...