Do you....

[AXWhoah]

Thanks justamom. We all have our reasons for cutting women during recruitment and almost all of them are ridiculously petty. So maybe you cut the token weird girl cause she made you feel uncomfortable for whatever reason. Well maybe a lesbian would have the same affect on me. And it's really not fair to flame those of us who don't share the PC view that a lot of you guys have. I believe that the question was open to any kind of answer. And as far I've seen the minority opinion, which it appears I am in, has not been flaming the opposing side.

[DZHBrown]

One thing people have to realize is that some people have religious convictions that form their opinions about homosexuality. It's just as closed minded of those who bash them for their conviction as you think it is for them to not be comfortable about gays. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and their feelings and it isn't fair to flame someone because their opinion is different from yours. Who's to say who has the "right" view?

[kappaloo]

Originally posted by DZHBrown
One thing people have to realize is that some people have religious convictions that form their opinions about homosexuality. It's just as closed minded of those who bash them for their conviction as you think it is for them to not be comfortable about gays. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and their feelings and it isn't fair to flame someone because their opinion is different from yours. Who's to say who has the "right" view?

I disagree. You can have views on homosexuality.... but to treat the GBLT community different in a setting where their sexuality doesn't matter isn't right.

[DZHBrown]

I disagree. You can have views on homosexuality.... but to treat the GBLT community different in a setting where their sexuality doesn't matter isn't right.

I'm not saying that they should be given the right to treat people of that community different. I don't think anyone should be mistreated. But people have the right to not agree with it or be uncomfortable with it. Not agreeing with something and mistreating someone don't go hand in hand always.

[justamom]

My ridiculous musings.......
I too have been a victim of discrimination...
I was never invited to be a member of Phi Beta Kappa OR Golden Key National Honor Society. I think it was because I had a mental handicap...I wasn't as smart as them.

No, really-Out of frustration and lack of representation strong organizations have evolved. Why did so many sororities and fraternities emerge? What sparked the concept of local sororities?
Why do so many campuses have an array of organizations? Because the need existed. I think all of us can agree on that. Not every campus has as diverse a selection of organizations as LSU, but then, some have more. No one has to feel they can't find a niche. Instead of trying to force an issue why not look to sympathetic groups. OR, start your own. Sometimes denial is the impetus to change.
Something for everyone on GC-
(You KNOW who you are )

Antipop Music Coalition
Atheists, Humanists & Agnostics
Cannabis Action Network
Cinema Club
Hip-Hop Coalition
Improvisors
Live Action Role Playing Society
Mixon Lyceum Forensics Forum
Model United Nations
Open Circle - An Organization for Nature Based Spirituality
Outdoor Adventure Club
Paintball Club
Pass the Hat Theatre Company
Sexual Health Advocates
Spectrum Alliance
Student Environmental Action Coalition
Student Video Game Alliance
Tigers Organizing and Unifying Campus Histories (TOUCH LSU)
Vegetarian Society
Walt Disney World Alumni Association
Wargaming and Roleplaying Society
Wildlife, Avian, Zoo, and Exotic Medicine Club

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by justamom


The one word I am really sick to death of hearing is "discrimination". Not to pick on you Lunawolf, but I've read your thread most recently. Why is it NOT OK to be wary of a "Christian Witch" but OK to be wary of a Lesbian? I have seen examples of this on GC time after time. When it suits us, anyone with a different opinion gets hit with the LABEL of DISCRIMINATION. Yet when we agree, then we pat ourselves on the back about how open minded we are and how "with it" our thinking is. HOG WASH! People have the RIGHT to their FEELINGS! People have the right to share their time with whoever they want. We are NOT talking about Government jobs here, we are talking about social time...PERSONAL time...OUR INDIVIDUAL CHOICE of friends. I don't care if you are in Canada or Mississippi. When a group chooses WHO they want to affiliate with, it boils down to THEIR preferences. All the NPC mission statements in the WORLD will not change the individual groups. Heck, they can't even get the chapters to stop dirty rush or scavenger hunts-child's play compared to some of the recent issues.

But what if I decide that I don't feel comfortable around women who are not white? Or women who are not blonde? Or women whose parents make less than $100,000 a year? If those are my personal feelings, should I be allowed to act on them? Should my sorority be allowed to keep those women out just because we feel uncomfortable around women who are not "just like us?"

A line needs to be drawn somewhere.

Originally posted by DZHBrown
One thing people have to realize is that some people have religious convictions that form their opinions about homosexuality. It's just as closed minded of those who bash them for their conviction as you think it is for them to not be comfortable about gays. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and their feelings and it isn't fair to flame someone because their opinion is different from yours. Who's to say who has the "right" view?

I've yet to find a religion which's religious text says "Don't be friends with gay people." Even some of the most devoted Christians I know have gay and lesbian friends because they figure that while the Bible says that homosexuality is not OK, it also says to love everyone ("hate the sin, love the sinner"?), and they figure it's not their right to judge -- that's up to God.

[Nhfulmer]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sugar and spice
[B]But what if I decide that I don't feel comfortable around women who are not white? Or women who are not blonde? Or women whose parents make less than $100,000 a year? If those are my personal feelings, should I be allowed to act on them? Should my sorority be allowed to keep those women out just because we feel uncomfortable around women who are not "just like us?"

Yes, you have a right to your vote. If enough of you vote that way, the person is not invited to join. While this may or may not be "right", it is the way the system works. If you don't like it, then you do not belong in an organization with closed membership. Remember, your GLO voted on you just as you have the opportunity to vote on incoming members. Everyone has their own prejudices and should have the right to vote as they see fit.

Remember - I didn't say those prejudices were right - just that you are entitled to them.

[momoftwo]

Originally posted by justamom
Why do so many campuses have an array of organizations? Because the need existed. I think all of us can agree on that. Not every campus has as diverse a selection of organizations as LSU, but then, some have more. No one has to feel they can't find a niche. Instead of trying to force an issue why not look to sympathetic groups. OR, start your own. Sometimes denial is the impetus to change.
Something for everyone on GC-
(You KNOW who you are )

Antipop Music Coalition
Atheists, Humanists & Agnostics
Cannabis Action Network
Cinema Club
Hip-Hop Coalition
Improvisors
Live Action Role Playing Society
Mixon Lyceum Forensics Forum
Model United Nations
Open Circle - An Organization for Nature Based Spirituality
Outdoor Adventure Club
Paintball Club
Pass the Hat Theatre Company
Sexual Health Advocates
Spectrum Alliance
Student Environmental Action Coalition
Student Video Game Alliance
Tigers Organizing and Unifying Campus Histories (TOUCH LSU)
Vegetarian Society
Walt Disney World Alumni Association
Wargaming and Roleplaying Society
Wildlife, Avian, Zoo, and Exotic Medicine Club

At the university my daughter is attending, there is a Clark club, that is only for people who are named Clark. They will accept alternate spellings. (This may give away my daughter's destination to at least one GC'er. If it does, please help me keep that confidential!)

[justamom]

Nhfulmer , I was going to post a reply, but you said pretty much what I was going to say.



edited to add-At the university my daughter is attending, there is a Clark club, that is only for people who are named Clark. They will accept alternate spellings. (This may give away my daughter's destination to at least one GC'er. If it does, please help me keep that confidential!)
Now THAT's funny!

[Nhfulmer]

Justamom, thanks. I'm getting frustrated with all of these "do gooders" who seem to forget that they are members of sororities and fraternities that are based on their right to choose their members.

[KillarneyRose]

Originally posted by justamom
Personally, I don't care if you ...wear white shoes before Memorial day.

JAM, I normally agree with you, but there ARE limits!

[justamom]

Originally posted by KillarneyRose
JAM, I normally agree with you, but there ARE limits!

You crack me up!

Just a few thoughts-not too meaningful
I want to be in a fraternity, but they won't allow it...gender discrimination.

I want to be in a sorority, but my grades are lousy.

I want to join your GLO, but I can't afford the dues.

Where DO you draw the line?

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by Nhfulmer


Yes, you have a right to your vote. If enough of you vote that way, the person is not invited to join. While this may or may not be "right", it is the way the system works. If you don't like it, then you do not belong in an organization with closed membership. Remember, your GLO voted on you just as you have the opportunity to vote on incoming members. Everyone has their own prejudices and should have the right to vote as they see fit.

Remember - I didn't say those prejudices were right - just that you are entitled to them.

But the point is -- if your bylaws forbid you to deny membership based on __________ [fill in the blank here], and you do it, you're in the wrong organization. If you don't agree with your bylaws, your purpose, your motto, whatever -- this is not the group that's right for you.

I have nothing against discrimination for the right reasons. And in my organization, I'm allowed to discriminate based on personality, behavior, academics, interests -- lots of things that should help me make an educated choice as to whether or not I want this girl as my sister. There's nothing wrong with a group having closed membership as long as they choose members (and deny membership to others) for the right reasons. In my sorority, we are supposed to choose girls based on whether or not we want them as sisters and whether they will represent our organization with class. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with that -- neither does race, looks, religion, political stance, beliefs, or a lot of other things.

[kappaloo]

I want to be in a fraternity, but they won't allow it...gender discrimination.

I want to be in a sorority, but my grades are lousy.

I want to join your GLO, but I can't afford the dues.

Fraternities say in their constitution that they discriminate by gender.

Sororities say in their constitution that they discriminate by grades.

Sorority's (at least mine) say upfront that you must be able to afford dues.


But, where in your sorority's ritual, constitution, bylaws or standing rules does it say you can discriminate based SOLELY on sexuality? Where does it say that's okay?

And on the whole "we reserve the right to choose our members" idea - does that mean race discimination is okay? That you should openly be allowed to vote to cut based on skin colour?

Edited to add: The poster above me said it waaaay better than I did!

[justamom]

If you don't agree with your bylaws, your purpose, your motto, whatever -- this is not the group that's right for you.

Well, now we've come full circle. This opens the discussion for Jewish members in a GLO founded on Christian principals or vice versa.

Should an atheist join Sigma Chi?

If anything, it seems like some people are trying to rewrite or put their own interpretaions to the founding values of their respective groups. Of course some are written for more open memberships than others. I KNOW THIS.

I'm not trying to promote ANY form of segragation or discrimination. This debate is an exercise in thinking. On any given day I could argue the counter point. It just so happens that my PERSONAL belief centers on an individual's freedom of choice. We are called a SOCIAL sorority for a reason. Looking to the rush tips thread, I think we need to get past cutting a girl because of her looks/clothes/money/social skills before we tackle this issue.