Law School

[bruinaphi]

I would completely disregard the specialty rankings and go to the best law school that you get into. Lawyers care a lot more about what school you went to and what your grades were than what the specialty is that the law school is known for. I went to law school thinking that I wanted to practice Environmental Law (my undergrad was Geography & Environmental Studies). When I took Env. Law in law school and would be happy doing that some day, but since graduating I've practiced Criminal and Corporate Litigation and Corporate Transactional Law. I never would have guessed that I would be doing what I'm doing now when I started or even graduated from law school. To make a long story short I would go to the highest ranking school you get into if you are planning on applying for firm jobs.

I applied to a lot of law schools compared to some people primarily b/c I was a really borderline candidate for top tier schools and my counselor told me to apply to a lot of them to increase my admissions chances. I also had a lot of extraciriculars going for me (I played lacrosse and was on student government at a large state school). They boosted my admissions chances as well. It was very interesting to see where I got in and where I didn't.

The only advise I can give on the LSAT is to do your Kaplan homework. I took Kaplan too and I just did workbook problems again and again. I figured I couldn't practice too much. Back in the day we didn't get our results for 6 weeks -- that was actually the worst part -- waiting for results. I had a recurring nightmare about bailing on the LSAT every night for 6 weeks. Of course after that it was that I didn't get into law school and then after that it was that I failed out of law school. It is always something in the process unless you are smart and do it the way Valkyrie did.

It's a very emotional process. I lived in the house while applying and there were six of us going through it plus my boyfriend. Talk about tough tension to deal with -- ugh!

[Greekbro1]

Hey brothers and sisters,

Here's a really helpful tip for anyone considering going to law school or in law school now. Take a look at http://www.outlines.com/ , this site made my first year of law school so much easier! I pull a 3.4 GPA without living in the library like everyone else in my class.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by Greekbro1

Hey brothers and sisters,

Here's a really helpful tip for anyone considering going to law school or in law school now. Take a look at http://www.outlines.com/ , this site made my first year of law school so much easier! I pull a 3.4 GPA without living in the library like everyone else in my class.

Besides the blatant spam quality of the post, I'll just mention that a 3.4 GPA doesn't mean across-the-board law school success. In some schools, depending on the curve, a 3.4 will put you in the middle of the class (not to mention that not studying at all in law school is a TERRIBLE idea).

Again, the rest of the post is useless spam, but just wanted to mention the GPA and studying things in case anyone took the post seriously.

[magichat]

Speaking of curves, can anyone tell me approximately where a 3.57 will end up on a 3.0 curve? (3.0 Median/2.95-3.05 Mean)

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by magichat

Speaking of curves, can anyone tell me approximately where a 3.57 will end up on a 3.0 curve? (3.0 Median/2.95-3.05 Mean)

Sigh. Must be nice to be on a 3.0 curve.

[FeeFee]

Originally posted by valkyrie
This has nothing to do with what you've asked, and I hope I don't sound bitchy (because that is not my intent at all) but I hope that you have VERY SERIOUSLY considered why you want to attend law school and what you want out of a legal career. Quite honestly, I wish that someone had told me that before I went because I probably shouldn't have gone at all. I harp on this all the time -- be sure you know what you're getting into because it's a rough, expensive journey. I hope that you're going into this with realistic expectations as to what a legal career involves (I say that because I did not). In other words, I hope that other people can learn from my mistakes.

Good luck, and let me know if you have any other questions!

Valkyrie, you are sooo right about what you posted. I work with a bunch of attorneys, and at least half of them bitch and moan about their jobs and halfway regret getting their JD's. My fiance took a long time to decide whether or not to return to law school (took a leave of absence for medical reasons) because he's not sure if he wants to practice law. I told him to at least finish and think about taking the state bar exam, therefore giving him the OPTION of practicing should he change his mind. I told him that he could also consider being a law professor.

[greeklawgirl]

Speaking as someone who is a JD and is *not* practicing law, there are many, many alternative career options out there for JDs who don't care to practice.

Granted, its definitely "the road less travelled" but for me, it works. I apply my legal reasoning and research skills every day, I'm successful, and I'm happy as a clam.

I wholeheartedly agree with valkyrie and lauradav--you should do some serious soul-searching about WHY you want to go to law school and practice law. However, if you should find yourself in law school and feeling "trapped," its NOT the end of the world. There are ways for you to make your law school education work *for* you on *your own* terms.

[AXORissa]

hey lawyers, can you help a poor student??

Im a 2L at Seton Hall, which has an excellent reputation in NJ, and is a top 5 school for Health Law (which is the specialty I plan to pursue)... however, im in the top half, but not at the top, of the class.

I am in the process now of applying for my summer job- i've been on three interviews, got one rejection, and havent heard from the other two. One is a firm I really want to work at-- the last few years, they've hired mainly from my program at my school, so thats an edge I have. They're hiring 4-5 clerks, I hear. I also have an interview next week at a PI/Med Mal firm that is supposedly very good, but its NOT what I want to practice.

How important is your summer job after your 2nd year? I know its very important in trying to find employment your 3rd year- but what if I decide to clerk for a judge for a year? I currently am a clerk to a personal injury lawyer (this is how I know I dont want to practice it!) so I have some legal work experience-- but the job market is SO tough for my class, and I dont know if I will wind up with a job at all, so I might have to stay where I'm at now. If I do have to stay here, I would also want to intern for a judge like I did last summer.

Thanks

[Rudey]

Just wondering...

When do people usually take LSATs?
How often are they given?
When do people usually apply to law school?

-Rudey

[jonsagara]

Check out http://www.lsac.org. It contains most of the information you will need.

[G8Ralphaxi]

Regarding the whole "which law school to attend" debate, I'd like to mention something that hasn't been covered yet:

$$$ COST $$$

While I would generally agree that you should try to attend the best school to which you can get admitted, there are other factors.

If you want to practice law at a big firm in NYC, California, Wash D.C., or any other big city, then you probably should go for the highest ranked school that you can.

However, if you know where you want to live, and you don't want to work for a big firm, then going to Harvard, Yale, Columbia, etc. may not be the best idea.

Coming from my own personal experience, my 1st summer I clerked for one of the biggest, most prestigious firms in the country. Good experience that summer, but I would have HATED working there permanently. Insane work hours, cutthroat environment, etc.

This past summer I worked for a regional midsize firm that I just loved. Everyone was very friendly, first-name basis, great mentoring. I'll be working there next March after the Feb. bar exam. (Yay!!!! Lucky me!) This firm is very well regarded in the Central Florida area and the attorneys are pretty much all law review, honors graduate types. The vast majority of them went to state schools like U. Florida, Florida State, U. N. Carolina, Virginia, etc.

The point is: for the job that is right for me, I was better off going to a state school. UF is a top tier law school, but at a bargain price. My tuition is not even $3000 per semester and the cost of living in Gainesville is very cheap. Since I also went to UF undergrad and had a lot of scholarships then, I'll graduate with very little debt. Because of this, I have so much freedom to do anything I want with my legal career. If you go to Harvard, for example, you could graduate with over $100,000 debt. That's pretty scary!

You would have little choice but to take a job with a big firm. While the salaries are very good, the lifestyle is horrible. There is a reason that the turnover for associates at those firms is every 2-3 years. After my own experience and listening to stories from other attorneys and law students, I am not a fan of the so-called "BigLaw" firms. The midsize firms offer many of the same benefits as the big firms (resources, support staff, etc.) but a much better lifestyle. You can get a good job by simply going to the best ranked public law school in your state.

Actually, it might be even easier to get a job like mine from an in-state law school - at least in Florida, all the well-respected in-state firms interview at UF, most at FSU, Stetson and Miami as well. But these firms don't bother to interview up at Columbia, etc. It would be too expensive and they have always been able to find enough quality people at UF.

[AlphaGam1019]

My bf, who's a 3L at HLS, made the following comments:


G8Ralphaxi's right that you can get nice firm offers to make decent money without going to a top 10 law school. BUT see, I could be the biggest loser at harvard and walk into one of those jobs. Granted, debt may not allow me to take a job for $70k when top in the market is $100k- but I have the choice. When you graduate from a lower tier school, you have to be in the top third of your class to even get a job at a midlaw type environment. If you're even a single tick below it, you're basically going to end up in a job where you don't make any more money than if you just got a job out of college (and, probably not doing something you want -- ie public defender or city attorney, etc).

[bruinaphi]

Originally posted by AXORissa
How important is your summer job after your 2nd year?

Not all that important. I clerked at a Med & Legal Mal Defense firm and an admiralty firm and now do corporate transactional and litigation work.

I highly recommend externing for a judge for credit -- the connections you'll make there are invaluable.

As for the money issue on where to go to law school, I stand strong on my belief that you go to the best school you get into. Many times that is a public school, but other times it is not. In California we are fortunate that there are a lot of good state law schools, but there is still a difference b/w how firms across the country and in california look at degrees from different schools.

[G8Ralphaxi]

AlphaGam - I would expect that Harvard Law grads do very well in the job market. I would also expect that the debt prevents the vast majority of them from doing public interest law or working for the government. They have to go to a "BigLaw" firm.

While I hear students here make jokes about "oh, haha, better study or you'll be a public defender," there are a lot of excellent lawyers that would not be happy in the firm environment. I know a lot of top-notch, honors graduates that are dedicating themselves to public interest work or have dreams of being a U.S. or state attorney. It just makes me sick to see people have hopes of doing great things and just get trapped by the debt and have to give up their dreams.

Go to a top tier public school - Florida, Michigan, Virginia, several of the California schools, etc. More bang for your buck.

RE: importance of summer job... depends on what you want to do after graduation. A heck of a lot of firms make their offers for permanent positions mainly, if not totally, within their class of 2L summer associates. If you want to work in a firm (anything from the biggest international firms down to the small regional ones), and it's big enough to have at least one spot for summer associates, your best chance of getting hired permanently is to be there in the summer. Plus, you will get a much more realistic look at the firm - more than you would ever learn from a couple hours of interviews.

Now, if you want to clerk for a judge after graduation or work for public interest groups or the government, etc. the summer job isn't so important as long as you've gotten good experience.

To me, one of the big benefits of the whole summer associate program is that when it works out - you like the firm and they like you - then you are DONE interviewing. Makes the last year much more relaxing not having to stress about finding a job. I don't have to get all dressed up and go thru all the interview B.S. Especially in this economy, it's really nice to know ahead of time what you're doing.

[ShaedyKD]

First, thanks to everyone for great replies on this subject. I have a few more questions though. I'm starting my applications, and have no clue what to write for my personal statement. Most of the schools have guidelines like "why you think you would make a great law student," "why you want to go to law school," "tell about yourself"....I am having the worst case of writers block EVER!
Also about the letters of recommendation, my favorite professor can't write me one because he had to leave in the middle of the semester and will not be returning. (Long story beyond that, but there is no way he can write me a letter.) So now I have no clue, other than the Director of Greek Life, whom I am close with and have worked with for 2 years on Panhellenic. Should I ask my academic advisor? Someone suggested that I ask the head of the dept. where my fave professor taught to write me one, if I explain the situation. It's just that I haven't made real close ties with any other professors at school because lectures are so impersonal. I've never taken a class with a prof more than once, because they just don't teach enough different classes. So who do you think I should ask? Advisor, or head of dept.?