Why is Rush so Cut-throat on the Sororities' End at Big Greek Schools?

[KillarneyRose]

Madmax,
Just wanted to clarify why I started this thread about sororities being cut-throat at the big greek schools

There's another thread in the Rush Forum about this fall's rush at the University of Florida, which is a big, competitive greek school where I would figure all the sororities could do well during rush.

A chapter of my sorority, Delta Zeta, colonized there last fall and, since we don't have a house for them yet, is going to be using one of the fraternities' house for rush. From the looks of that thread, there are members of other sororities at UF who are extremely worried that using this house for their parties will give Delta Zeta an unfair advantage. I was just wondering why they were getting upset when, from what I had understood, there were plenty of rushees for everyone at UF.

Thanks for reading!

[aopinthesky]

>>>Since these top 6 can get whoever they want, they end up cutting many of the PNM's<<<

A problem at some schools has also been that the top houses will keep PNM's, who they know or think they will eventually cut, until the very end, causing some PNM's to end up without a home. I know that Univ. of GA put some things into place last summer to force the larger houses to release girls earlier in the week to try and prevent some of this. Carnation knows exactly how that worked, I believe.

[FuzzieAlum]

Whoa, Madmax, you're way off! Chapter ceilings vary all over from 25 to 100. The number of sororities varies from 1 to I think 20 (NPC). Generally speaking, in fact, there are more chapters at bigger schools. But when smaller schools have a lot of chapters, the chapter ceilings are just smaller on that campus. A system can be cutthroat with one chapter (see "Rush at UCSC") or with many, or with large or small chapter sizes.

Campus size is totally irrelevant. So is the # of chapters. Not all undergrads want to go Greek. They don't matter as far as rushee or chapter numbers, then. It can only be cutthroat if they're cutting their throats over not getting in!

The system is designed to work so almost all rushees get bids. (There are women who are deemed unsuitable in every system.) Quota expands infinitely to include ALL those women. If quota starts going above a certain point, that's when schools consider adding more Greek orgs, because the chapters only want to get so large.

The system breaks down only when rushees decide that they would rather not be Greek than join certain organizations. That's when they drop out of rush after getting cut by their organizations of choice. That's when it is considered cut-throat. On campuses where girls are more willing to consider all chapters, it's not.

[carnation]

Originally posted by FuzzieAlum


The system breaks down only when rushees decide that they would rather not be Greek than join certain organizations. That's when they drop out of rush after getting cut by their organizations of choice. That's when it is considered cut-throat. On campuses where girls are more willing to consider all chapters, it's not.

And THAT says it all in a nutshell!

[ZetaMelOU]

Well, I know at my school, our Greek system is huge. The way that it is set up is that the minimum NPC GPA to rush is about the same as it takes to get into the University, so anyone can rush. Quota is set so that every girl who goes through rush is guarenteed a bid by at least one of the two houses that she gets on preference night. However, there are girls who don't get bids because they go suicide on preference night (instead of ranking their two houses first and second, they only put down one house and that house cuts them when normally they would have automatically gone to the 2nd house). I think only 5 girls who went through all of rush did not get bids, and they all went suicide with their first choice and got cut. We had almost a thousand girls rush, and I think by the end we were down to 850-900ish just cause some girls dropped out after not getting the house they wanted. It's really not all that cutthroat, but these girls come in with a preconception that a certain house is better when they could be completely wrong. Of the 12 houses we have here, I would only say that 2 of them would be called "bad" houses to be in by the rest of the Greek community. I would also say that I think that all of the sororities here on our campus work their tails off for formal recruitment. Yeah, some might have better reps than others to some of the incoming girls (especially the ones that have been here the longest who have lots of legacies), but if they don't look polished, then people are just going to be like "yeah, whatever...you guys aren't that great". I know that happened with a bunch of my friends who all went in thinking a certain one would be awesome, but then they saw the others and realized that there are several good ones.

[2017law]

Something needs to be clarified about quota-

Quota is set before Prefs. So girls at UF for example find out who they have been invited back to and can choose up to 3. If she doesn't like any of the 3 and drops out, she is still in the number a chapter can take, "quota" and that messes up the whole system.
For example, UF had 16 chapters when I was a Rho Chi. Rush started with about 1300 women. Say that 200 women drop out before round 3- you have 1100 women. But only 900 show up for prefs. The quota number is still set at 1100/16 allowing each chapter to take 68/69 women plus additions. But what about the 200 hundred that dropped out? They don't count and now instead of each chapter getting about 70 for quota, the big chapters get 70, their top bid list, and the rest don't. The fact that everyone doesn't get quota is b/c attrition is not accounted for. This is part of NPC rules- quota is set after Round 3. The 200 less women come out of the numbers of the smaller chapters. It's sad, but true and that's why UF will always have struggling chapters. Now with the new DZ chapter in the mix, versus the AZD chapter that was there a few years ago, 1 of the larger chapters is going to suffer as a result. 1 of the 2 chapters struggling at the bottom, who don't get quota anyway are just now closer to closing than they were 2 years ago.
Sorry this is so long, but a lot of people don't know how quota really works.
C

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally posted by 2017law
Something needs to be clarified about quota-

Quota is set before Prefs. So girls at UF for example find out who they have been invited back to and can choose up to 3. If she doesn't like any of the 3 and drops out, she is still in the number a chapter can take, "quota" and that messes up the whole system.

True, but you are assuming a SORUSH computer program. It is a little different with PRUSH.

After the round prior to pref, the women rank their chapters in order of preference. Quota is then set by the number of women who rank that night. Therefore, if some women know at this point that they have no intention of attending preference, they are not counted in quota.

Right before pref, they go to their RC groups and are handed their schedule. Sure, some of them will not get their top choices, but once you are dressed and ready to go to prefs, most women will at least give them a shot (at least, that is the theory behind PRUSH).

Of course, if women do not sign their bid cards after pref, you have the same problem, but if a girl goes to your pref and still really, really can't see herself in your chapter...it is probably for the best.

[ZetaLuvBunny]

I’m not sure about other Southern schools, but at MTSU the sororities (and fraternities as well) are competitive when it comes to getting the new members with the best GPAs, most athletic ability (for intermural sports), and musical/dancing talent (for the annual All Sing competition), as well as girls who have pageant experience so they can win Homecoming Queen, Miss MTSU, and the sorority's name will be associated with them, etc.

It has been especially important in the last several years for the MTSU Greek chapters to maintain high overall GPAs and to be involved in plenty of charity work in order to maintain a good reputation with the faculty and non-Greek students. The intermural sports are pretty competitive, so PNMs who were on sports teams in high school or the community definitely have an advantage as well.

In a way, the sororities at MTSU have an advantage in that there are only 7 NPC organizations and often between 300 -500 PNMs (last time I was involved directly) at the start of rush, and only about half of those girls will get into a sorority, but all 7 still “fight” for the “best” girls.

There is also a factor to consider where sometimes the girls with the best GPA, sports involvement, etc, decide they won't have the time (or money - or both) to commit to a sorority, so everyone loses out then. It's all about trying to sell Greek Life in general as WELL as selling your own GLO.

[PhoenixAzul]

Originally Posted by ZetaLuvBunny

I’m not sure about other Southern schools, but at MTSU the sororities (and fraternities as well) are competitive when it comes to getting the new members with the best GPAs, most athletic ability (for intermural sports), and musical/dancing talent (for the annual All Sing competition), as well as girls who have pageant experience so they can win Homecoming Queen, Miss MTSU, and the sorority's name will be associated with them, etc.

It has been especially important in the last several years for the MTSU Greek chapters to maintain high overall GPAs and to be involved in plenty of charity work in order to maintain a good reputation with the faculty and non-Greek students. The intermural sports are pretty competitive, so PNMs who were on sports teams in high school or the community definitely have an advantage as well.

In a way, the sororities at MTSU have an advantage in that there are only 7 NPC organizations and often between 300 -500 PNMs (last time I was involved directly) at the start of rush, and only about half of those girls will get into a sorority, but all 7 still “fight” for the “best” girls.

There is also a factor to consider where sometimes the girls with the best GPA, sports involvement, etc, decide they won't have the time (or money - or both) to commit to a sorority, so everyone loses out then. It's all about trying to sell Greek Life in general as WELL as selling your own GLO.

I think your post brings up an interesting point, something I've said many a time here...perhaps we shouldn't be looking for the pre-made super sorority girl. The captain of everything, cured cancer at 12, debutante queen, beautiful and nice and legacy to everyone and a founder. Yes, those girls are great, and truth be told, they'll end up whereever they want under their own steam with little persuasion and be a real asset to their chapter...likely joiners.

But perhaps more energy/attention should be paid to the non-limelight girls. It's not that they are "worse" PNMs, but maybe are a first time college student, a first time rushee, from out of town and doesn't know about the Greek tradition...they may or may not have had a ton of time for sports and activities after school for various reasons (Family, work, etc). I think these girls can be a real asset to chapters, simply because they have more to gain from the sorority experience (leadership positions, group work, etc). The likely joiners will, 99% of the time, plow on to success with or without sorority life, but the non-limelight girls can use the sorority and Greek Life to their benefit and growth.

then again, Ive got no way to impliment this, and no suggestions other than "give the little guy a chance". Just something to think about.

[zzazbama]

So at an advisor luncheon the other day, the Greek Life Advisor at Bama said that Bama would be looking to expand in 3-4 years, hopefully sooner, if the chapters on campus that were struggling to maintain membership continued to grow and strengthen number wise. He also said that they would want 2 sororities to come on.

Although the question still remains where to put the houses. Possibly behind sorority row in the parking lot? I don’t think there is any plan to expand the stadium any more right now. Apparently doing another end zone expansion would not allow the grass to get enough sun light so there would have to be a switch to turf (this tidbit is from the Alabama Football boards). I had also heard the rumor that AOPi and Theta houses would be torn with the next expansion, but I’m think that was just rumor.

[AnchorAlumna]

Thanks for the update, Zzazbama. Yes, the crux will be WHERE 2 additional houses will go. I don't see the university footing the bill for building houses. Unless there is some change of philosophy - a smaller house with less overhead, or the university "kicking out" all the sororities to use the land for something else (right! in your dreams!!) and designating a different area for sorority row. Frankly, I think ALL the sororities are violating fire codes or something. How can they cram that many girls into a chapter room for chapter meetings?

[aephi alum]

Actually, we used SORUSH but based our quota on the # of women actually attending pref. We got lists of who to expect at each party, but then turned in lists (within a few minutes of the start of the party) of who actually showed up. Quota was calculated during the final pref party; chapters were informed once that party ended, and constructed their bid lists accordingly.

Still doesn't solve the problem of people cross-cut before prefs, though, or people who get their hearts set on 1 or 2 GLOs, then drop out if those GLOs cut them.

[Peaches-n-Cream]

Originally posted by FuzzieAlum

The system breaks down only when rushees decide that they would rather not be Greek than join certain organizations. That's when they drop out of rush after getting cut by their organizations of choice. That's when it is considered cut-throat. On campuses where girls are more willing to consider all chapters, it's not.

Originally posted by aephi alum

Still doesn't solve the problem of people cross-cut before prefs, though, or people who get their hearts set on 1 or 2 GLOs, then drop out if those GLOs cut them.

When I was in school, many women were dropped from the sororities that they wanted. Some rushees would rather drop out of rush than continue if they weren't invited to one of their top three out of seven sororities. I felt bad for these young women who had their hearts broken until they wouldn't be bothered to rush or COB a sorority that they considered 'inferior'. It was really hard to combat that image. I always thought that if all of the women who dropped out or didn't get a bid decided to pledge one of the two smaller sororities, they could even out the numbers and change the inferior image. Unfortunately, that rarely happens. In fact within a few years, one of the sororities folded.

[ajuhdg]

I've been watching this thread and laughing threw the whole thing. Rush always makes me laugh! Especially when you were talking about six women rushing one 'RUSH CRUSH'. Back in my rush days, I remember one particular GLO that our advisors said were 'Born to Rush'. Of course, they brought in the Miss. __ for our state, who was one of their members. While some considerded it an unfair advantage, the type of girls these women went for were always the glamour types. I think this is what can also make rush so cut-throat, as has been discussed. There are always shallow chapters, and those that rule the campus can sometimes have their pick. But, like you stated, that girl left due to GPA.

This power-chapter at my school was great at rushing, but awful at retention. I'm glad that some organizations remember how important keeping their girls is to the whole experience. If you can't keep them for more than a year, what's the point of it? QUALITY, not quantity! Looking back, I guess I was the same way though...we all want to be the 'pretty girls'. Who knows!

Adrienne

[justamom]

Putting all the "PC" talk aside.
What do sororities REALLY want in their membership?
Young women who have-
Looks for the image
Brains for the standing
Money for the dues AND extension of the image
Personality for cohesiveness
Work ethic for volunteerism, visibility and chapter operations.

Take 1000 women with quota at 75 and you cover 10 chapters. Allowing for drop out and bidless you START with 250 girls who will not find a house. OK-I'm not using quota plus- not relevant to this post.

Let's say the Greek system is strong and like some of the campuses mentioned on GC, one or two houses are not as desirable as others.(For whatever reason.) On paper these 2 houses are competing with 8 other houses. However, in reality, these houses are not competing with the farthest end of the spectrum. They must work their way up the ladder. If there are 2 top houses, they in essence are only competing with half or maybe even less.

Working with a number of 750 PNMs, what percentage would fit the original criteria? (Brains beauty money...) I would venture a guess that it would be well below half. Remember all you sociology majors, in every social group, there exists a "pecking order". Working with half, 375 PNMs, means 5 sororities could hypothetically pull in the "dream" pledge class. That also would seem to differentiate the top from the bottom tier sororities. (IMO)
Now, if you are just skimming the 50% mark as a PNM OR as a sorority, you are going to fight tooth and nail to pull yourself up.
I think when we hear of HUNDREDS of PNMS going through rush, it is important to remember that just as some girls turn their noses up at certain sororities....well you can finish the thought.

This example excludes the "human" element, but
the fact is, when you consider what a sorority DREAMS of when they think of their NM class, there just aren't that many girls who have it all NOR sororities that have it "all". Hence-cut throat!