Pledging

[Discogoddess]

To those who are greek and unhappy with your organization's current system, what are you doing now to change the membership intake guidelines of your organization? I'm sincerely interested in reading others' responses. I've recently gotten active after a few years of sitting on my butt doing nothing, and this issue is one of my top priorities.

I think that undergraduate and younger graduate members who are dissatisfied need to make sure they are doing all they can to develop an alternative to the current system, create an effective message to express themselves, and participate in the business of their organizations by paying their dues, being active in chapters, and getting selected as VOTING DELEGATES to their respective national conventions. That's the only thing that will change the system, because simply talking about it hasn't changed a thing since fall 1990.

DG
Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc.
Spring 1990

[LadyAKA]

Though I was told to mind my business a couple of post ago I just had to respond and say: VERY WELL said Sorors SkeeBunny, DG, and Taykimson.

-I agree with Keeping 'FAMILY ISSUES' just that 'Family Issues'
-Not talking about it or complaining if you haven't been through it and
-Working to make the change instead of just whining about what we have.

Ignorance is still being shown by some about this topic, let's talk about getting things changed ... and this, might I add, is not the place to do that!

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by Professor:
What in HELL is going on. I don't know what brotherhood means to you but it is certainly not about holding line for months on hand. It really bothers me when old heads talk of the length of time it takes to cross the sands. Although I find some merit in old school ways, I continue to question if the months on line makes anyone a better Alpha Man. Being a Alpha Man is a work in progress - - it is never ending. Therefore, two weekends or six months are never qualifiers for determining the perfection of an Alpha.
"06"

Hey Bruh

I read your statement and wanted to give you something to think about. Here it is:

The more time you spend practicing a skill, the better you'll be at it. If the pledge program is both physical and mental-building the organizational skills of the pledges- then the LONGER you're on, the BETTER a BRUH you'll be. Time on line is time with men you'll call brother, and men you'll depend on to build your chapter, as well as the NAME...

[7BA94]

Well said, plus two weekends never made anyone a brother.

[PositivelyAKA]

just playing devil's advocate but

Did the founders of Alpha pledge themselves? (since you can't be a true Alpha without pledging) Did their very first line pledge, i mean in terms of exactly how it is done today? I ask only because my founders did not pledge they "founded" AKA, they were worthy before AKA "understand" and they chose women who were already worthy of the honor, because of how excellent they already were. My founders and the early members are to me the Epitome of AKA women. does this make any sense. I do believe in a pledge process to build deeper unity before crossing with your frat/sorors i think the current process sucks, i don't like sorors coming in not knowing a darn thing and skeeweeing my ear off however i will not blame them or distance myself from them, (i need to teach them, that's what real brothers and sisters do) for the mistakes that previous members have made that caused pledging to be banned in the first place. what i'm saying is although i agree with a pledge process with dignity, does it really make the man or the woman since pledging is lifelong in many aspects. we need to make changes for sure, but in the mean time can't we show love for those young folks who are trying to follow in our footsteps.

[Professor]

PositivelyAKA . . . Words from a woman of Character, Charm, and Intelligence (marry me my sister - i'm smitten for you ladies of the pink and green ! ! !)

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by Usual Suspect #7:
Brother Goliath, "The Other BA #7-MG", Brother Spectrum, Fellow Brothers and Sisters -
(Spectrum - That's what to expect from a Beta Bro.) What's up Dex, Mike. You all can turn blue in the face trying to explain the importance of pledging, but some people just won't get it. Until the National organizations of all frats and sororities realize that the only means of coming to a compromise without compromising the organizations, will be to take responsiblity for "above ground" activies (ie. getting grad chapters involved with undergrad chapters)
You see it everyday, people are hazing kids and they haven't even been pledged. THAT's the problem. I understand that some chapters don't have the option of pledging, but when it comes down to it, they feel/see the difference in being a member of an organization vs. a brother/sister. So what do they do...start beating the hell out of people.
I don't want to say that with the way some of our Greek National organizations make it so easy to become a member, that brotherhood isn't the goal, but that's what's up. Not to even be disrespectful, but for real. Those who sweated, bled and cried for their organizations have the obligation to continue the "true" chapter/frat/soroity traditions that have been deemed unnecessary by many "leaders". I'll also agree 100% that "pledging" is an ongoing process. As in anything, you never cease to grow. But you need a foundation.

Thank you for your time and apologize for the crude layout of this letter, but want I wanted to be perfectly clear in my opinion. I embrace any and all comments.

Peace with you - 06

P.S. What is everyone's definition of brotherhood/sisterhood?

In my opinion, it CAN'T be defined; only DEMONSTRATED!!!!!!!

'06!

[The Original Ape]

Originally posted by SkeeBunny:
I tried to refrain from posting on this topic, but as usual, I couldn't help myself. I will try to keep this brief.

You cannot miss or begin to comprehend something that you've never had. If you pledged, you hold that near and dear to your heart and you don't understand how others who did not go through a process can foster the same voracity and passion that you have for your org. On the other hand, those that did not pledge have no experience on which to base their current opinions and could not possibly begin to understand what pledging means. You can't make an apple understand what it means to be an orange.

I say all that to say that this is discussion is a moot point. Whatever route you took should be a very personal and private matter. No need to get defensive about something that you can't even relate to.

For those that feel that pledging is the only way, I say lobby for change. Instead of downing the current system, let's come up with a feasible way to implement those factors that we know are pertinent to a successful process. Until then, be grateful for the opportunity that you had and look for ways to better relationships with those that may not fully understand what sisterhood/brotherhood is all about.

And Soror Taykimson, I feel you 100% on presenting a united front, on both sides. Where is the love, man???!!!

[This message has been edited by SkeeBunny (edited July 11, 2000).]

I agree with you, Sista!

[7BA94]

Originally posted by PositivelyAKA:
just playing devil's advocate but

Did the founders of Alpha pledge themselves? (since you can't be a true Alpha without pledging) Did their very first line pledge, i mean in terms of exactly how it is done today? I ask only because my founders did not pledge they "founded" AKA, they were worthy before AKA "understand" and they chose women who were already worthy of the honor, because of how excellent they already were. My founders and the early members are to me the Epitome of AKA women. does this make any sense. I do believe in a pledge process to build deeper unity before crossing with your frat/sorors i think the current process sucks, i don't like sorors coming in not knowing a darn thing and skeeweeing my ear off however i will not blame them or distance myself from them, (i need to teach them, that's what real brothers and sisters do) for the mistakes that previous members have made that caused pledging to be banned in the first place. what i'm saying is although i agree with a pledge process with dignity, does it really make the man or the woman since pledging is lifelong in many aspects. we need to make changes for sure, but in the mean time can't we show love for those young folks who are trying to follow in our footsteps.

To put it bluntly on the fraternal level no.

[Ice Cold Kreator]

While I must agree that pledging (not hazing) is an important piece to brotherhood, we can not let it divide the House of ALPHA...

There are some major points to remember when trying to figure out whether it is worth it or not...

Have we forgotten that not just one, but many Brothers and Sisters have been hurt in so called "pledge" processes. Right now, underground processes are not safe...I don't know about you, but I don't want one single hazing case to possibly bring my beloved Fraternity to an end (or any other org. for that matter)...most of our organizations are barely a prayer away from that fate...Noted Greek historian, Brother Lawrence Ross Jr noted this in the promotion of his book, The Divine Nine, around the country.

Further, you can't blame people for the process they received...They HAD NO CHOICE in the matter...you're falting the wrong person...(your falting the person for the organization who put it in place) are they supposed to go begging for someone to "Pledge" them? yes, pledging is a beautiful process!!! But the chapter, and really the National body decides how, where, and when to bring over new bruhz...Vigilante Bruhz and Chapters who promote making up some trumped up process only foster disunity between so called "paper" initiates and "old heads."...as well, they put the chapter (and the national body) in jeopardy...the days of wood, the orange, zesting and all that have come to an end...and if you don't believe it...just watch how fast you get sued...I've seen it happen so often in every part of the country I live in! And you can't defend beating someone as if he stole somethin'

Further, The best place to make changes is on the executive level...that's why its important for bruhs who believe in an old school process to stay active! (in many cases they don't b/c they are mad about this new thing)...In order to effect change, you've got to be active!...you can't do nothin' crying in the background!...those bruhs who believe in a pledge process need to form a coalition and make their concerns known!

I really believe that all the organizations would like to return to a process that allows for growth, pledging, and hardwork...but we can't do that with knuckleheads already violating national sanctions...if we do, who knows what would happen...your sister or brother may land up in the hospital

I also think that it is very UNBROTHERLY to treat any ALPHA (or member of your organization) as though he didn't make the same vow you did...firstly, you contribute to their thoughts about the disunity of the organization...and secondly you can't judge THEIR heart based on whether they can remember #5's line name and mother...Their commitment regardless of the process is what I look for...Brotherly behavior amongst brothers is most important...that's what fuels the bonds (TREATMENT!!!)

Personally, I would like to promote an above ground pledge process...i think its safer...and gives the organizations more visability as well as promotes positivity amongst all pledges...

When talking to those who crossed b-4 1970, many have echoed how Ivies helped Pyramids and how Sphinxmen have helped Lamps...it was help everybody...which promotes the kind of unity that we want in the Black Greek Community as well as the Black Community overall...

"if you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs"

Much love 2 All MY Beloved Bruhz,

And 2 My Sisters of Pink and Green,

Fraternally,

Ice Cold Kreator, #2 -- Fall 99
"If he's 2 cold, he must be a duece

[7BA94]

I can and I do fault them. Where there is a will there is a way. If they want to come in, in the time honored manner they can. Also there is no division, there are brothers and there are others. Others are not frat. How can you say someone is a brother, and he doesn't even know his own line brothers name. That just sounds ridiculous. Imagine this "What is your brothers name?" response, "I don't know." That just sounds foolish.

[Ice Cold Kreator]

What do you mean there are others, FRAT?

You can't be IN THE HOUSE OF ALPHA and not be an ALPHA...regardless of what you say brothers who actually go through "intake" are just as much a part of my beloved APHIA as you are...they know everything you know (maybe not as well)...but ALPHA is about growth...

Yes, its not right that the processes don't match...yes, its not right that there is not one universal process to "make" bruhz...but you shouldn't hold that against them...especially if there heart is in this here! What do you want...should they seek you out to be put back on line? Is it worth the suspension of the chapter -- so no one can cross in the coming years! (ign'ant bruhz must see beyond the present to see the future of the chapter and the entire frat)

In the case of Morehouse...do you know that they may already be suspended b/c of hazing incidents (I know because I reside in the ATL)!!!! I mean, they just got back on that campus...they haven't even been on the yard a total of 2 years!...all b/c they were trying to prove that they were hard! Forget that mess...especially when no one knows what & how to do what they are trying to emulate!

Is is really worth it?

And who deems who worthy...? Am I supposed to decide that because a brother doesn't remember all 15 of his bruhs full name that he is not Frat...

Just a quick note on that...my sponsor...who crossed on the "Hill" @ Alabama A&M in 76 (during the height of "pledging")...said he had a line brother who did everything they did...and couldn't even remember the founders...I Mean The FOUNDERS!!!! He just had a bad memory...and no matter how long he was on line he was never able to commit them to memory (luckily he had the help of his LB's to bare his burden)...but this same brother was the first to be doing the work of ALPHA...the first to be about the business of ALPHA...thats commitment...

I had a bruh on my line who was uncoordinated as well as he stuttered...it was awful b/c we were all just as weak as he...even though we could spit out facts, do things and what not.

My hardest lesson was learning to bare my brothers burdens...it made me a better person learning to accept him as he was...especially as active as he is NOW...I know it must not be easy for him, when he comes across brothers like you who may down him b/c he can't spit out his duece's name!...He's still my #5...and a committed Brother of ALPHA

In fact, I would say we all need a little more time in the fire! None of us are the picture of brotherhood, especially when we turn our heads to brothers who can't "rattle off LBs names"...but who are helping brothers move and find jobs, while running the service projects that no one wants to help do...

I chastise bruhs for being apathetic in the frat...the hell with pledging...if you ain't done a da** thing since you crossed except talk about how much wood you took (even though you know we (or any other organization)dont sanction such actions...I love the Frat, but I hate unfraternal Brothers...

"GOODWILL, Is The Monarch Of This House."

Fraternally,

Ice Cold Kreator

A side note: historians have noted that hazing became more prevalent in vigilante pledge processes after the world wars and vietnam due to various military processes! Is that where we design our "rites of passage processes"....if so, it's time to revamp...

I would also like to reiterate that a PLEDGE process is NECESSARY!...even a watered down one...whatever it takes -- ALPHA is bigger than you and I...bigger than processes!

[PositivelyAKA]

Once again our organizations were founded to uplift and support an oppressed people (us), and here we go again hating on each other. pledging is harder than basic training, whatever if you need to believe that, i won't take that from you. This paper/real issue is so tired, it doesn't pay the bills, has not helped to elevate our people or bond us as brothers and sisters. Instead some walk around talking all kinds of mess about brother/sisterhood and how hard they pledged.
SO WHAT. who cares, there is so much more to life than the number on your back and the letters on your chest. Lets get up, get out and GROW UP!!!!! There is work to be done, we should be fighting to make sure police officers don't get off for using our black children as firing targets, we should make sure all our brothers and sisters are registered to vote so we can have a say in this country, we should educate and instill love and confidence in our children so they can grow up secure and able to lead thier communities/the world. Come on yall, this is susposed to be fun, why do we spend so much time dividing and conquering ourselves. no wonder some say we are just like gangs, some act like it.


[This message has been edited by PositivelyAKA (edited August 07, 2000).]

[7BA94]

First of pledging is definitely harder than boot camp. Who gives a darn if someone screams at you forever? How do I know because I went through boot camp as well. Boot camp compared to pledging is a joke. They make you do some push up and situps cycle you that's easy no big deal. Compared to pledging that's absolutely no challenge. I would be willing to bet that almost everyone I know who pledged would breeze through boot camp. The other thing is yes there are people who are on line who can't remember such and such line name or may not remember such and such poem by heart, but they proved that they wanted it. When things got hard and rough and there was no ending in sight, they dug down deep because they wanted Alpha bad enough to keep going. There are just some things you can't understand unless you pledged. On another note, every black greek national organization could fold up tent tommorow and say we don't exist anymore. Does that really mean there is no more APHIA? I don't think so. Alpha is bigger than one person, one chapter, one region, or nationals. If a national organization went bankrupt is it really unlikely that some chapter or some region wouldn't host some type of convention or reunion of brothers from all over the world. With the information age, would it really be hard not to keep people informed. I don't think so. All that being said; I don't want nationals to go bankrupt.
Another thing why would anyone want something just given to them that they didn't have to earn. To me that's a sign of a weak person. If someone told me here pay this and be whatever, I would feel like I disrespected everyone who came before me and actually worked for it. I wouldn't even want it. I would tell the person no thanks you can keep that cause what you are selling isn't worth a thing. Alpha's are the elite and historically we produce leaders. Why, because these people were tested and came out on top and then went to work to help everyone else. Do you thing it helped Dr. King to know he had a entire brotherhood to back him. People he knew went to and hell back and kept going.
Basically, if you didn't pledge you didn't earn a thing you aren't an Alpha. If you did pledge and you aren't working in the community or within the fraternity at some level, then you need to get on the ball and stop being lazy. I guess I'll never understand people who skated into a fraternity. Why would they want to join? They can do all the community service they want at the local ymca or the local church or mosque or hindu shrine.

[darling1]

I have been monitoring this thread for a while and it seems that everyone has strong opinions. I would like to know this, how can any person who joined a fraternity/sorority be judged negatively by their intake process especially after 1990 when the MIP came into affect? What if that person who wasn't 'pledged' has served his/her community consistently on behalf of their organization and just for their own enjoyment be judged negatively just because they didn't go through an X week process or perhaps they didn't get a 'beat down'. I mean it wasn't their fault, and they couldn't very well say I want to be pledged because there isn't supposed to be any. From what i have read there are members who have gone through the so called right way and have done nothing for their organizations and there are those who went through the MIP and do nothing as well. There are bad apples everywhere. Iunderstand that this is a topic that I won't fully understand until I am on the otherside of the fence, but coming from the side of humanity and Christian principle, this argument makes no sense and is so counterproductive. There is so much more in this world that needs and should be discussed.