Title IX question...

[naraht]

I was thinking about Alpha Nu Omega and the way that Philippines Fraternities work. Would a group where at schools there were separate Fraternity and Sorority chapters fulfill Title IX?

Assume the following (set up for Alpha Phi Omega - Philippines). School have separate Fraternity (which has brothers) and Sorority (which has sisters) chapters. Both groups have the same founding requirements, but this can occur separately. So you could have a sorority chapter at a school, but if there aren't enough men interested to found a fraternity chapter, it wouldn't exist, (and vice versa). If later enough men because interested, they could apply to become a fraternity chapter (which would get the same chapter designation). Both Fraternity and Sorority chapters vote at the National Convention for all offices, however two of the offices are specifically "Fraternity Affairs" and "Sorority Affairs" (which by the National By-laws could be held by members of either gender, however in practice, FA is held by a brother and SA by a sister.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by naraht

I was thinking about Alpha Nu Omega and the way that Philippines Fraternities work. Would a group where at schools there were separate Fraternity and Sorority chapters fulfill Title IX?

Assume the following (set up for Alpha Phi Omega - Philippines). School have separate Fraternity (which has brothers) and Sorority (which has sisters) chapters. Both groups have the same founding requirements, but this can occur separately. So you could have a sorority chapter at a school, but if there aren't enough men interested to found a fraternity chapter, it wouldn't exist, (and vice versa). If later enough men because interested, they could apply to become a fraternity chapter (which would get the same chapter designation). Both Fraternity and Sorority chapters vote at the National Convention for all offices, however two of the offices are specifically "Fraternity Affairs" and "Sorority Affairs" (which by the National By-laws could be held by members of either gender, however in practice, FA is held by a brother and SA by a sister.

I'm not sure why you'd bring Title IX into it. If you have members of both sexes, you're just a social club. Just like Circle K, but maybe with a house. There are co-ed groups out there right now.

And I don't know why a U.S. based co-ed group would hamstring themselves with extra requirements to install chapters like having a prerequisite number of members of each sex.

If you're single sex, I'd understand Title IX applies. If you're not, it doesn't. Easy peasy, right? I think?

And I say this not as a lawyer with a deep understanding of Title IX. I've just been tangentially exposed as a member and alum-volunteer over the years. So take what I'm saying with a big grain of salt.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'm not sure why you'd bring Title IX into it. If you have members of both sexes, you're just a social club. Just like Circle K, but maybe with a house. There are co-ed groups out there right now.

And I don't know why a U.S. based co-ed group would hamstring themselves with extra requirements to install chapters like having a prerequisite number of members of each sex.

If you're single sex, I'd understand Title IX applies. If you're not, it doesn't. Easy peasy, right? I think?

And I say this not as a lawyer with a deep understanding of Title IX. I've just been tangentially exposed as a member and alum-volunteer over the years. So take what I'm saying with a big grain of salt.

Because it would be entirely possible for the fraternity to have a fraternity chapter and sorority chapter at the University of Georgia, a fraternity chapter only at University of Maryland, which means that the University of Maryland they won't admit women (unless there are enough of them to make a chapter) and a sorority chapter at Penn State, which means at Penn State they won't admit men (unless there are enough of them to make a chapter).

And as for "why", at least for Alpha Phi Omega Philippines, it was because they went through the process of the individual chapters having little sister groups, which became affiliate sororities under various names, they got brought into the umbrella as a *National* affiliate sorority, and then the national affiliate sorority gained equality. All without having men and women ever being part of the same local chapter.

[Titchou]

Are you talking about setting this up in the US or imposing Title IX in the Phillipines?

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Titchou

Are you talking about setting this up in the US or imposing Title IX in the Phillipines?

I'm wondering if a group had developed this way in the USA, would the group be able to stay with this setup when Title IX was imposed.

[Titchou]

I would think if it was set up properly as two separate orgs it would work.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Titchou

I would think if it was set up properly as two separate orgs it would work.

Two separate Orgs would require that they be Social, I believe. In this case, I'm looking at the situation where they aren't social (Professional or Recognition)

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by naraht

I'm wondering if a group had developed this way in the USA, would the group be able to stay with this setup when Title IX was imposed.

I don't see why not. They're two separate orgs, right?

I don't really see the point of having two separate chapters. But I guess it's like Scouts is now with the all girl packs and the all boy packs.

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by naraht

Two separate Orgs would require that they be Social, I believe. In this case, I'm looking at the situation where they aren't social (Professional or Recognition)

I can't see where that would be a requirement.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Titchou

I can't see where that would be a requirement.

If they were two separate orgs, one all-male and one female, they would have to be social to follow Title IX, correct?

[Titchou]

But you keep saying it's the same org...and I'm having trouble trying to i what the set up is and what your concern/question is....

If they are two separate social orgs, yes, Title IX applies and protects the single sex membership...just like any two separate social orgs we currently have. So what's the question/concern?

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Titchou

But you keep saying it's the same org...and I'm having trouble trying to i what the set up is and what your concern/question is....

If they are two separate social orgs, yes, Title IX applies and protects the single sex membership...just like any two separate social orgs we currently have. So what's the question/concern?

It isn't two orgs, it is rather a single corporate org with two pieces. Similar to Boy Scouts of America have two pieces (say Boy Scouts and Explorers or Sea Scouts and Cub Scouts)

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by naraht

If they were two separate orgs, one all-male and one female, they would have to be social to follow Title IX, correct?

This is what I based my response on

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Titchou

This is what I based my response on

Understood. For this purposes, assume a Professional Fraternity bound into a single legal organization. And if it helps in terms of whether Title IX would work, the fraternity and sorority use the same greek letters. (So for example, Beta Gamma Delta Fraternity chapters and Beta Gamma Delta Sorority chapters all part of Beta Gamma Delta.