Sororities seek to change fraternity culture

[*winter*]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I'm sorry, but this is bull****.

College is a different world. A young person living under their parents' roof for 18 years is suddenly thrown into a place with no parents, thousands of other students their age, and is expected to make major life decisions on their own, and you think that what their parents have always taught them is going to stick 100%?

I've known people who were straight as an arrow in high school that turned into raging alcoholics in college. I also have a friend who didn't drink a drop of alcohol in college because she drank all throughout middle school and high school and she was trying to turn her life around.

Putting it all on the parents is ridiculous.

Other 18 year olds are married, some are single parents, some are in Iraq or Afghanistan. You best believe they can, and should, be able to make major life decisions on their own. Only on college campuses are they treated as pseudo-adults until they're 22, or in some cases, even older. It's a cultural thing.

Maybe I was raised differently, but I had real talk about alcohol and drug use in my house growing up. Then again, I knew people who were out and out addicts and alcoholics, so I never wanted to grow up to be like those people. Kids are sheltered. They're protected from the realities of the world.

In the military, people join when they're 18, there's alcohol everywhere when you get to your first duty station (even AIT in some cases), yet you don't hear about those kids drinking themselves to death? There's drugs too- if you want them.

I get so sick of people on this site coddling college kids. Coddling them is what got them into the situation in the first place.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by *winter*

Other 18 year olds are married, some are single parents, some are in Iraq or Afghanistan. You best believe they can, and should, be able to make major life decisions on their own. Only on college campuses are they treated as pseudo-adults until they're 22, or in some cases, even older. It's a cultural thing.

Maybe I was raised differently, but I had real talk about alcohol and drug use in my house growing up. Then again, I knew people who were out and out addicts and alcoholics, so I never wanted to grow up to be like those people. Kids are sheltered. They're protected from the realities of the world.

In the military, people join when they're 18, there's alcohol everywhere when you get to your first duty station (even AIT in some cases), yet you don't hear about those kids drinking themselves to death? There's drugs too- if you want them.

I get so sick of people on this site coddling college kids. Coddling them is what got them into the situation in the first place.

I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me.

My point is that putting it all on the parents' shoulders when their kids misbehave in college is ridiculous. These students SHOULD be making major life decisions on their own, but many of them have never had to do that before. And when they gain that responsibility, they don't know what to do with it.

I do agree with most of your post. However, if you don't think that hazing and binge drinking occurs in the military, then I have a bridge to sell you.

[Kevin]

If you're following FIPG rules and guidelines, you aren't hazing.

I also don't think we'd have nearly the number of hazing fatalities if alcohol was not involved in the process. If my HQ called me up tomorrow and asked what my recommendation would be to end these fatalities, it would be to remove alcohol from the new member program entirely and make that the focus rather than eradicating hazing right now, today.

In a lot of things, we fail to realize that there are different degrees of bad things. Perhaps we can tolerate the Aziz Anzari version of hazing if we're able to actually do something about the Harvey Weinstein version?

That said, I just want to reiterate that I have a tough time wrapping my mind around how these deaths happen. My chapter does not haze and has never felt the need to haze. Our candidate program is also not six weeks of gifts and it works.

[33girl]

If you mean not allowing NMs to drink while they're pledging, I kind of don't think you can tell someone what to do in their free time. Especially if they happen to be of age.

You can't allow underage brothers and sisters to drink while pledges don't, that's been recognized as hazing since the 1970s.

[Kevin]

I don't think that's a thing. As it stands, you aren't supposed to let underage people drink, period.

[panhelrose]

Speaking from a university standpoint, I was a student orientation leader for my school a few years ago, and part of the program involved teaching the incoming students about drinking, drugs, and what to do if someone needs help. We have protocols in place, for instance, where a student won't get in trouble for drinking underage if they're calling the university EMT service to help out their friend who's too drunk, so that students aren't more worried about their own punishment than the more dire consequences.

However, we did face some pushback from parents during one of the discussion sections we had about that information session, because the parents said the university shouldn't be encouraging students to drink underage. The way our Dean of Students put it, we know many incoming freshman will experiment with alcohol underage, so it's better to teach them how to be safe and how to protect each other from dangerous behavior, than to pretend it doesn't happen at all.

On the fraternity/sorority standpoint, I think acknowledging underage drinking, teaching safe drinking habits, and putting protocols in place to protect students trying to help their friends would definitely curb this issue, but I doubt we'll see many fraternities saying "well we know you're drinking underage, so here's what to do," etc, etc.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I don't think that's a thing. As it stands, you aren't supposed to let underage people drink, period.

Actually, yes, it is a thing. It's hazing.

If a sorority is allowing underage members to drink at sorority events like mixers and formals, they can't say underage pledges aren't allowed to just because they're pledges.

Remember that some of our organizations are international with chapters in Canada where the drinking age is 18-19.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Actually, yes, it is a thing. It's hazing.

If a sorority is allowing underage members to drink at sorority events like mixers and formals, they can't say underage pledges aren't allowed to just because they're pledges.

Remember that some of our organizations are international with chapters in Canada where the drinking age is 18-19.

That wouldn't be hazing as I understand it. The definition of hazing varies from group to group. I recall our Oklahoma State chapter had a write up about their new member program in our national magazine which detailed that among other things, candidates (non-initiates) were not allowed to partake of any alcohol during their new member process.

[ColdInCanada11]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Remember that some of our organizations are international with chapters in Canada where the drinking age is 18-19.

THANK YOU! A lot of orgs don't recognise this. When I was a new member, I was 20 and had to do Greek Life Edu- I was deemed an alcoholic with my one to two drinks a month because I was "underage".

Onto the point, people certainly do pregame/drink, but it doesn't seem to be taken to the same extremes up here. I'd be interested in a comparative study!

[FSUZeta]

In ancient times when I was an undergrad, the drinking age was 18. I don't seem to recall as many stomach pumping adventures and alcohol poisoning deaths as are presently reported. Freshmen could go to bars and drink, which took the importance off fraternity parties as the only way to drink. I think the laws should revert back to a drinking age of 18.

[clemsongirl]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

In ancient times when I was an undergrad, the drinking age was 18. I don't seem to recall as many stomach pumping adventures and alcohol poisoning deaths as are presently reported. Freshmen could go to bars and drink, which took the importance off fraternity parties as the only way to drink. I think the laws should revert back to a drinking age of 18.

I could not agree more. A huge part of the drinking culture in Greek life at Clemson (and probably other places too) was under-21 members pregaming and drinking tons before an event because they knew they couldn't drink alcohol once they got to the mixer, function, formal, what have you. While a culture shift so members don't feel like they have to drink to have fun would be wonderful, younger members being able to have one or two drinks once they got to an event would seriously cut down on binge drinking.

The drinking age in Vermont was still 18 when she was there and while I'm sure she got up to some shenanigans, I don't think the pressure to pregame was there the way it is now.

[NYCMS]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

In ancient times when I was an undergrad, the drinking age was 18. I don't seem to recall as many stomach pumping adventures and alcohol poisoning deaths as are presently reported. Freshmen could go to bars and drink, which took the importance off fraternity parties as the only way to drink. I think the laws should revert back to a drinking age of 18.

I hadn't thought of this but it makes complete sense.

And here's another factor: I work in behavioral health, including working with counselors at colleges, and one thing being noted in the field is that students today are binge-drinking as a way to cope with anxiety, depression, and adjustment disorders.

You don't have to work in mental health to know that college students are under much more pressure than previous generations, amplified by the effects of social media ("everyone else has the perfect life" syndrome). This is also why we see something known as "drunkorexia" - students (not just women, but also men) avoid eating before parties/going out because of fear of weight gain, so they drink on an empty stomach and bingo - totally drunk. "Drunkorexia" is not an official DSM (diagnostic manual for mental health), but is a significant trend and issue. And this is amplified by the "skinny worship" trend as well.

College students have always used drugs and alcohol to numb themselves and cope, but not to the degree that college counselors and health centers see today. So yes, a factor of legal drinking age, but also to cope with stress and anxiety.

[PhilTau]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

In ancient times when I was an undergrad, the drinking age was 18. I don't seem to recall as many stomach pumping adventures and alcohol poisoning deaths as are presently reported. Freshmen could go to bars and drink, which took the importance off fraternity parties as the only way to drink. I think the laws should revert back to a drinking age of 18.

In olden days, back when 18 was the drinking age and before risk reduction rules, a fraternity would spend about $35 (plus deposit) and buy a keg of beer for informal parties -- that would pretty much be it as far as alcoholic beverages at informal events and mixers. Risk reduction policies do not allow this anymore.

I suspect that now it is cheaper and easier to just to have guests buy and bring their own hard liquor for informal gatherings disguised as non-fraternity events in a crude attempt to avoid IFC and university rules as well as liability.

It is extremely difficult to get alcohol poisoning by drinking beer alone. Not that difficult with hard liquor or 190 proof grain alcohol.

My point is that the increased alcohol poisonings can likely be tied to the increase in hard liquor use.

[shadokat]

When I went through pledging, in the days of old, we signed a contract stating we would not drink for the entirety of our new member program. Of course, back then we didn't have as much "free time" as pledging has these days.

[GreekOne]

I have a daughter that is pledging right now. She told me that some of the rules given to the new members include no pre-gaming before socials and drink nothing but beer. This is representative of the direction sororities are taking to improve the situation. They can't control if a fraternity is serving vodka but they can control the expectation of their own members that they do not partake. The culture has to change somewhere and I think this is a positive start.