Yet to be Themed Re-recruitment Story

[AOE-7]

Originally Posted by Sororitysock

Because policies and procedures like this have helped us build and sustain powerfully strong national and international organizations, many of them going on 150 years. Perhaps when your little young engineering sorority has this kind of strength and experience under its belt, you can share the policies that have gotten you there too.

See? It's not so difficult to be rude and dismissive about a very different organization that you don't know or understand now, is it?

My username has nothing to do with a sorority. I'm not an engineer. You are wrong, sock.

[BlueCarnation]

Originally Posted by AOE-7

Okay, Sunshine, help understand why and how this is a good policy? Really. I want to know. For REALZ. How on EARTH does it make SENSE to force OMGQTFBBQ we absolutely gotta have a rec soooo, lets write some sh*t on a piece of paper about this girl in order to meet the 'national requirement' and call it a day.

Rainbow Unicorn sandbox or not, I am trying my damndest to understand how this is not, in a roundabout way, a 'forgery' or 'fake' or whatever else you want to call it.... because I don't know how on earth you can write a recommendation for somebody you don't frikkin' know. Reading their resume does not tell you a dang thing about their character or presentation, their people skills and if in fact they are a good fit for the chapter. Somebody could be spotless on paper and a piece of doo doo in person, and that poor frantic alumna writes a rec for her because she was "forced to" due to a bureaucratic policy.

Oh wait... I get it.... is rec writing part of ritual? Is that the "tradition" part of it that you speak of?

I'm not sure what my national organization's policy is, but maybe we can agree that we don't necessarily agree with everything our organizations do? Either way, I think we all take our memberships seriously, and while we may not have the same practices as you do, we won't mock your traditions and rituals, so please don't mock us.

Anyway, yes, KC 96, PLEASE COME BACK!!!! We want to know how things went!

[AOE-7]

Originally Posted by BlueCarnation

I'm not sure what my national organization's policy is, but maybe we can agree that we don't necessarily agree with everything our organizations do? Either way, I think we all take our memberships seriously, and while we may not have the same practices as you do, we won't mock your traditions and rituals, so please don't mock us.

Yes, I was a sassy smart ass with my first post, but the responses I received were....mmmmm.... just as smart ass (if not more), and didn't bother to answer any of the questions I posed. I didn't think the questions I asked were terribly hard:

1)Does someone actually take the time to ready the recs that people fratically scramble to obtain? IF NOT, then yes, it's a waste of that person's time, so I hope for all of y'alls sake that somebody is reading each and every damn one of them!

2)If they are actually being read...what's the outcome after reading them? Can someone's bid be denied as a result of that little piece of paper? If these recs are required before being offered a bid.... it would seem to me that some higher power should need to read them BEFORE offering the bid, correct? Which means, that rec would need to be secured (and read by the 'higher power') BEFORE preference.... but maybe I'm overthinking the logistics of this. (Logically speaking, if you have a requirement to have this item, you should have to "do" something with it other than simply file it away to say "we met the requirement by having random words scribbled on a piece of paper.")

3) I'm still having a terribly difficult time understanding how this is not straight up fakery/forgery. If you do not know the person, how do you write a rec? Someone else said "trust your sisters." Okay.... why should a (FAKE RECOMMENDATION!) piece of paper need to be written by some alumna to "prove" that trust on behalf of the collegiate chapter in order to allow them to extend a bid? Why can the collegiate women not vouch for themselves based on what they have learned about that woman over the course of recruitment and their interactions with her leading up to? Why the bureaucratic nonsense?

Instead of getting defensive about the fact that your organization does have this policy, why not think about these questions at face value. What is the REAL purpose? I still don't understand why fake references are a policy other than "just because that's the way it's always been" and none of you have been able to (or are willing to share) one legit reason why.

[DubaiSis]

And all of this doesn't speak to the issue at hand which is a girl rushing a second time after a failed first attempt at a southern school (of undetermined size or Greek strength). Official and unofficial policies don't matter. Changing the dynamic of her personal situation is what matters. If you don't change anything there is no reason to expect a different outcome. Because this is a relatively easy thing to do, and there IS value in a well-written recommendation form, belligerently saying you don't have to have them and therefore you're not going to get them speaks to me of a personality issue that likely does not mesh well with the myriad other rules, policies and practices, some mandatory, some only mandatory if you want to succeed as a sorority member in college today. I DESPERATELY want to be a sorority member, but I don't want to do any of these specific things that are required doesn't bode too well. Tell me about that first mixer she has to attend where she hates one of the guys in the house, or the work week schedule that interferes with a part time job or any of the 80 bazillion other sacrifices sorority women have to make.

If this is not a recs required campus, if she DOES send one in, then it will be looked at with greater scrutiny since there will be far fewer for them to go through. That makes it all the more reason to send in the rec since rush failed for her last time.

[1964Alum]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

And all of this doesn't speak to the issue at hand which is a girl rushing a second time after a failed first attempt at a southern school (of undetermined size or Greek strength). Official and unofficial policies don't matter. Changing the dynamic of her personal situation is what matters. If you don't change anything there is no reason to expect a different outcome. Because this is a relatively easy thing to do, and there IS value in a well-written recommendation form, belligerently saying you don't have to have them and therefore you're not going to get them speaks to me of a personality issue that likely does not mesh well with the myriad other rules, policies and practices, some mandatory, some only mandatory if you want to succeed as a sorority member in college today. I DESPERATELY want to be a sorority member, but I don't want to do any of these specific things that are required doesn't bode too well. Tell me about that first mixer she has to attend where she hates one of the guys in the house, or the work week schedule that interferes with a part time job or any of the 80 bazillion other sacrifices sorority women have to make.

If this is not a recs required campus, if she DOES send one in, then it will be looked at with greater scrutiny since there will be far fewer for them to go through. That makes it all the more reason to send in the rec since rush failed for her last time.

Indeed. Being in a sorority requires one to be a team player, not someone who wants to come in and change the rules of the game before she even gets there. That would raise serious questions and red flags in my mind. Yes, sorority members are individuals, but individuals who are working together for the good of the entire organization. There are many, many benefits but along with those many responsibilities.

[1964Alum]

Honeychile, I was rec chair for a region of my state as an alum. As a sorority active, I never even saw one as they were for the eyes of the rush chair and alum adviser only. We had no idea what a rec looked like! We all did know, however, who we had recs for. And were never told why a rec was denied for a PNM.

I do remember seeing one rec as an active, however. It was for a PNM highly recommended and under some pressure to pledge but a young lady we as actives had questions about. We did pledge her, and she turned out to be an excellent member. Her younger sister soon followed as well as other family members, all of whom were excellent members. The alumnae recommending her had some maturity that we as active members did not as yet have.

As the alum rec chair however, I had a couple of 11th hour calls, but very few over the course of many years. Neither of the two I remember pledged us, however. One pledged another sorority and the other dropped out.

[jolene]

I went through informal rush at a noncompetitive school though in the southeast. I rushed two sororities and chose Alpha Xi (there are five total sororities at my school). Later I was contacted by other sororities, but had no recs. Period. I'm the first in my family to go to college much less go Greek. Why would an org that has to absolutely have recs bother contacting me (they did--ZTA)? It seems very harsh to not even look at someone because they don't have a prior Greek connection. An old roommate pledged Zeta through informal (she never initiated) and didn't have recs. Is that a newer policy? I was in college in the 90s. Is it a case of if the chapter really really likes you, an active who has a rush crush will write the rec? Can actives do recs?

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by jolene

I went through informal rush at a noncompetitive school though in the southeast. I rushed two sororities and chose Alpha Xi (there are five total sororities at my school). Later I was contacted by other sororities, but had no recs. Period. I'm the first in my family to go to college much less go Greek. Why would an org that has to absolutely have recs bother contacting me (they did--ZTA)? It seems very harsh to not even look at someone because they don't have a prior Greek connection. An old roommate pledged Zeta through informal (she never initiated) and didn't have recs. Is that a newer policy? I was in college in the 90s. Is it a case of if the chapter really really likes you, an active who has a rush crush will write the rec? Can actives do recs?

Each sorority has its own rules, but for Alpha Delta Pi, an active may only write a rec for someone going to a different school. So if Ann's sister & her friends are going to attend a different school, she may write recs for them. Other than that, the rec must come from an alumna.

It's actually an old policy, for the most part. It probably started as something like the Old Boy's Network, but is now a chance for an alumna to really brag about someone she knows, someone who would be an asset to the chapter. One of my great-aunt's friends was a ZTA, and offered to write a rec for me, even though there was no longer a ZTA at my school, so it's been going on... well, a long time.

[1964Alum]

Member selection policies can very greatly from GLO to GLO. And yes, they can seem unfair on the face of them. I'm not at liberty to disclose the information gathered and recorded on our rec forms, but they have to do with the personal qualities of the PNM. Matters of substance. And not the opinion of one sole alumna.

I remember one PNM in particular from my active days we really, really wanted to rush and pledge. And she was very interested in us. We got a "No rec" on her, and we all scratched our heads wondering why on earth. And never found out why. Our rec chairman made a second request. If our rush chairman knew why this rec was denied, her lips were sealed, most likely to not have gossip going around. We just had to move on, just as a PNM must do if she is cut from a favorite chapter. That particular PNM joined another very well-regarded sorority on our campus and had a wonderful college career. It was very hard for us to get recs we solicited from the particular city that PNM was from, but pledged many wonderful young ladies where the recs were enthusiastically given. I live far away from my chapter and bet that has changed by now.

My chapter's recruitment was delayed by a year, so we did already know a good many of the PNMs by the time they rushed as Sophomores. This is a very large school, so of course we did not know all of them. It was through recommendations that we met and pledged many wonderful girls who might have otherwise slipped through our cracks. Recs can be of great benefit to a PNM!

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by 1964Alum

Member selection policies can very greatly from GLO to GLO. And yes, they can seem unfair on the face of them. I'm not at liberty to disclose the information gathered and recorded on our rec forms, but they have to do with the personal qualities of the PNM. Matters of substance. And not the opinion of one sole alumna.

I think this is the original intent of a “recommendation.” The act of recommending anyone for anything requires personal knowledge of the candidate.

If I know a PNM well enough to write a rec, I know her well enough to call her and let her know I am doing so. I haven’t had a reason to send in recs for PNMs without their knowledge – I wouldn’t know every fact, activity, and honor to include without their input anyway (I don’t know how anyone would).

Perhaps this just reflects my experience with recruitment on my campus and how my local alum group is organized where recs are concerned – but the thought of an alum squirreled away somewhere furiously writing recs for girls she doesn’t know -- so that they may be offered bids -- is just a foreign concept to me. This seems to negate the point and meaning of having a recommendation that includes matters of substance, and seems to violate the spirit, if not the letter, of a national rec requirement.

So – question for those on a campus where recs are an anomaly but whose org requires them -- recs are written en masse for those being offered a bid instead of prior to recruitment? It’s difficult to imagine, otherwise, that entire new member classes across a campus just happen to all have mystery recs year after year.

Originally Posted by 1964Alum

I'm not at liberty to disclose the information gathered and recorded on our rec forms

An aside – in the younger days of the internet, logging into one’s member account of the national org site was usually required to view/obtain rec forms. Now, just about chapter’s form is available and viewable to anyone on the internet. I’m not sure why some alum groups and chapters upload these to the internet – or why the various national orgs don’t contact them and ask that these be removed from public view.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

An aside – in the younger days of the internet, logging into one’s member account of the national org site was usually required to view/obtain rec forms. Now, just about chapter’s form is available and viewable to anyone on the internet. I’m not sure why some alum groups and chapters upload these to the internet – or why the various national orgs don’t contact them and ask that these be removed from public view.

Pre-internet, ours were printed in our national magazine (which obviously isn't secret). What did other groups do? Did you have to request the forms from HQ or an alumnae chapter?

As far as trust your sisters, that DEFINITELY depends on the sister sometimes. Just because I dig you to the moon and back, doesn't mean you don't have ATROCIOUS judgment.

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Pre-internet, ours were printed in our national magazine (which obviously isn't secret). What did other groups do?

Yes, so were ours. Not secret, but only members received the magazine.

Originally Posted by 33girl

Did you have to request the forms from HQ or an alumnae chapter?

Only if you couldn't find your magazine. Or couldn't remember your log-in info once these were available on the internet (if your org's site required a member account to access forms).

Originally Posted by AZTheta

No advantage or need to keep them "removed from public view". No harm in transparency - why shouldn't the PNM know what questions the form contains?

Perhaps a good point -- I guess it depends on the org -- some must consider (or did consider) limiting access to members only through verified member accounts.

I suppose there exists some potential for fraud with printable paper copies on the internet, unless someone verifies with nationals that the signature and contact info on the rec is actually a member, as well as a member in good standing. If a national org doesn't notice that the same alum or two write most of the recs for an entire pledge class just before bids are distributed (referencing the back room alums writing recs en masse mentioned earlier in the thread), then I would be surprised if they check the cred of every alum on every rec that winds up at HQ.

In the vein of transparency -- is there a list of NPC orgs that require a rec to pledge a new member? Which orgs require this and which do not?

[Sister Havana]

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

I suppose there exists some potential for fraud with printable paper copies on the internet, unless someone verifies with nationals that the signature and contact info on the rec is actually a member, as well as a member in good standing. If a national org doesn't notice that the same alum or two write most of the recs for an entire pledge class just before bids are distributed (referencing the back room alums writing recs en masse mentioned earlier in the thread), then I would be surprised if they check the cred of every alum on every rec that winds up at HQ.

Didn't somebody (Carnation?) post about a perp offering to write recs for PNMs a while ago?

[AOIILisa]

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

In the vein of transparency -- is there a list of NPC orgs that require a rec to pledge a new member? Which orgs require this and which do not?

I know AOII does not require a rec to pledge a new member because I was recruitment adviser last year at St. Joe's in Philly - we submitted the bid list and not one single rec did I see or write. If something is happening above me at IHQ or regionally, I don't know about it, although as recruitment adviser I would assume someone would have let me know.

Our new recruitment adviser is from Vandy and was just asking the recruitment chair and me how many recs they got last year - the recruitment chair said she had never seen one. They are not a thing in the Northeast unless your org requires everyone to have a rec to get a bid and then it's not well known that this is a requirement except by the people in charge of recruitment or HQ. That's what I'm taking away from this thread, anyway.

[FSUZeta]

Who reads those pieces of paper? Someone at IO.