A big thank you to this board.

[anonymouse17]

I wanted to thank everyone on this board.

The way you all communicate with eachother and stand up for eachother has brought me back to recognizing and being a proud brother. I can walk again wearing my letters proudly. I lost that feeling after a major falling out. And I wanted to share with you all what happened.

To share my story:

I pledged/crossed in Spring 2012. I am out of shape. But I try my best to be active or atleast remain active. And so for the most part, while I was at school, I often wore compression shirts and shorts (spandex-like clothing). I also wear it cause of a medical reason. the pores of my skin is quite sensitive to thick cotton, so when I sweat, the cotton could scratch my skin and cause my pores to bleed, the dri-fit material helps stops the bleeding cause the sweat is wicked away.
A few brothers began to make jokes about the attire and question why I wore it. The jokes didn't bother me at first and I did explain why I wore it.. But eventually more people began doing it and people kept asking me why I wore it, or specifically why I couldn't wear other clothes over it. Which I felt I didn't need to.. Eventually it became "the straw that broke the camel's back" in Fall 2013 and so I contacted the chapter advisors to put an end to the mockery.
They replied and assured me that the jokes would stop. But they also stated that there are "individuals" who have complained about my attire. They stated that the individuals have complained that it makes them very uncomfortable to the point that they have avoided events because I was there in the clothes.
I responded by asking if the issue is with the attire or me wearing the attire. And they stated its me wearing the attire, specifically the shorts with the bulge area (yes I am male if you are wondering).
I was upset and so I responded that there is no dress attire at our fellowship events like movie night, board game night, interview night, and so on. When we are doing service events, I do dress up and cover up. However, my shorts goes down to my knees. My shirts have sleeves. There is no cleavage showing, no excess skin. There is no profanity. No gang material. And there are other brothers who also wears similar attire. I listed nearly 10 names. There is even one brother who was topless at a pledge retreat. I told them that I feel this is discrimination because its targeting me for being a male.
Some of the brothers wear tubetops, spaghetti straps, mini skirts and so on. It doesn't make a noise.

But when I wear my shorts. it makes people uncomfortable. It doesn't make sense. It doesn't even target everyone who wears the attire, it specifically targets me.

The advisors replied that they cannot comment on discrimination. They attempted to cool the discussion down, but instead they fanned the flames when they said "We have made it clear to the individuals that you did not mean to make them feel uncomfortable."

It upset me because it still played it off as if they were the victims, when really. I didn't do anything. I addressed the issue once more saying that if it was an action that was innapropriate then yes I will take full responsibility. But because this is about an attire. I will not stand by and ignore it. It targets me, pointed at me. and made the statement that "individuals avoided events because I was there in my attire." I didn't do anything wrong. They are not the victims here. I am being pointed at for making someone uncomfortable when I didn't do anything to begin with. It's wrong, its discriminating. it's unbrotherly.

They gave me the same reply about not talking about discrimination.

I told them. This is upsetting, its unbrotherly to treat a brother this way. This is not leadership, nor friendship, or service. I said I'm getting outside opinion on the matter before discussing further.

They replied that it sounds like a great idea to do so.

I asked several brothers and it revealed. Nobody wanted to stick up for me.

I asked one of my pledgeparents (i had two, I asked the one I was closer to) -
I specifically asked, does he think I did anything wrong? and he said, "It depends." I asked what does it depend on? and I repeated the same thing about action versus dressing up. and he wouldn't respond.

I asked one of the namesakes (we had two, I asked the one I was closer to) -
She said the same thing. "It depends." same response.

I asked both my bigs. -
Big 1 said if he didn't know me he's be uncomfortable. But even if he knew me, he wouldn't say anything.

Big 2 said it's not a big deal. Just let it go.

So my next course of action was to not let it go. I asked my bigs if I should bring this discrimination issue up with the ones in charge of all organizations on campus.

Big 1 said that he hopes I don't do it. I could tarnish the fraternity's reputation and really put us in a bad spotlight.

Big 2 said it's not worth it, just let it go.

I told them. It's not about worth. I wanted to set an example, to show that I will not sit back and be discriminated because of who I am or what I wear. I specifically stated I am a brother, this is where you see my leadership, I stand up for others and refuse to be bullied. I am a friend because not everyone will be able stand by others. Hopefully this creates a spark so no future brother experiences this. And I am doing service by promoting equality and standing up against the injustice of social norms and double standards. I am doing what I feel, A brother should do which is stand up and make a difference. Not sit back and let people bully and make a mockery of others.

They kept the same stance, refusing to even see my reasoning.

So I went through with it.
I met with the then president of the chapter and she gave me what felt like a backhanded compliment stating that "she applauds my courage to speak up, however, she wished I spoke up sooner when the jokes first appeared so we could deal with it then and not now."

She assured me that at the advisors meeting, all the advisors that were there agreed to context in the email before sending it to me. I was asked how we could come up with a solution. I said that we can have agreed upon rules about dresscode and make it fair to everyone. Either we all can wear something or no one can. And also address the chapter about discrimination and this kind of unbrotherly treatment.

The president agreed, so did the lady in charge of all organizations on campus. I was asked by the lady what I wanted to do next, whether to fully do the report on discrimination or to let it go. I told her, I wanted to make a change. to let it be known that this behavior is unacceptable. I don't want others to be picked on the way I did.

And so. a full out investigation occurred. In the end, nothing was done. The school said I wasn't discriminated based on a "protected status" so there was no discrimination involved.

I was upset. I was annoyed. I didn't want the chapter to be shut down. I just wanted them to be told by someone else, how they handled the situation was wrong. Some brothers began saying I betrayed the brotherhood. They said I was a traitor, unbrotherly. I wasn't a leader, a friend or doing anyone any service.

I ignored it for the most part then I had one final talk with a brother I was close with. I addressed to her that, all this could've been avoided if they didn't tell me that someone avoided events because of my attire. It should already be a red flag that I didn't do anything wrong. I didn't break any rules, I didn't purposely make someone uncomfortable. I just wore plain clothes and some brothers decided they were against me and only me wearing compression clothing. Someone else felt they were victims, and the advisors did not address it any different. It could've been easily stopped by addressing that I just wore clothes, I didn't perform any actions. But instead it was worded as "I didn't mean to make them feel uncomfortable." - the only brother I still keep in touch with.

I felt there was no leadership, no one else stood up when action was needed they all just sat back and let the issue blew up. There was no friendship, people easily turned their backs on me, my pledge parent, namesake, bigs, and the other brothers who said the stuff at the end. There was no service being done whatsoever, not to our chapter, not to our campus, community or country.

So I went dark. Locked up all my APO stuff in a box. If someone asked, I acknowledge I used to be in a fraternity. I never acknowledged the name or that I am in one. I felt that the chapter didn't stand up for what we preached about. Our Cardinal Principles were just words. It wasn't something I wanted to be a part of or even be recognized a part of. I stand up for what I believe in and would rather practice what I preach.
-------------------
So here I am. Almost 2 years later after it initially began. After hearing your discussions and seeing how supportive you all are to eachother. It sparked the brother in me to come out. It still stings, it'll take more time to acknowledge that I am a member of the chapter again. But for now, atleast I'm a proud member of the fraternity.

I don't know who all was involved. I was only given a few names. It didn't matter who the names were. I just wanted to address the issue that I was being pinned for making someone uncomfortable when I didn't do anything. Truly, I felt. i was the victim, but no one else felt that way. Of course, I did end up having to sign an agreement that I wouldn't respond in any way that would be "retaliation" over the results of the investigation. Which I have no problems with. The fraternity didn't do anything wrong, it was the people and how they responded.

I went back recently to meet the newer brothers. And they are great people. A lot of respect was shown. Brotherly welcomes and everything. Kind of makes me feel happy and want to go back. So I may give it a shot next semester and be a brother once more.. baby steps with this one.

I don't hate the fraternity. I love it still. But those few people who treated me that way, it made it hard to want to be a part of the chapter again knowing that some are still involved and are leading the fraternity as Presidents, pledgemasters, and advisors. It put a sour taste in my mouth and on the fraternity as a whole. But slowly, the bridge is forming again.

[Sen's Revenge]

I have a few words of advice, not that you asked, but here I am:

You will be an alumnus of Alpha Phi Omega for far longer than you will be an active in Alpha Phi Omega. Although these experiences will influence how you interact with APO for the rest of your life, they don't HAVE to. I guarantee you that the vast majority of the people you have problems with will never attend another APO event after they graduate. So consider how you will navigate APO after YOU graduate.

College students are catty and APO brothers, by and large, chapter to chapter, seem to have a hard time dealing with conflict. I do not miss that period of my life one bit. Would I have handled your situation the way that you did? Probably not, but what's done is done at this point. Continue to stand up for yourself but be mindful of how you convey the messages you want conveyed (tone, demeanor, body language can say more than just words on a screen).

Finally, you will never avoid conflict in APO or any organization, even if you remain involved as an alumnus. I've run for national office and had other alums speak out against me to the nominating committee. And yes, I am still bitter. :-) But it's okay to take breaks and regroup.

Every Brother is not going to be your friend--and some shouldn't be--but if you keep the SERVICE FIRST, you will still have a very fulfilling fraternity experience.

[anonymouse17]

Thanks Sen.

All opinion and advice is welcome and appreciated.

I graduated previously in Spring 2014, but I stayed around and kept in touch with several brothers who I knew on a more personal level. Only recently did I start talking to more brothers on a fraternity level and introduced myself as an alumni.
I got accepted into grad school so I look at it as a chance, not to start completely over, but a new chapter. I don't plan on being active, grad school is going to be tough. But I do plan on being around to meet all the new faces, the new leaders that will be created and those that already are leaders.
You are right, many of those are probably not there anymore. Chances are, this is just a college thing for them and once they leave, that's it.
It's a new chapter of my life. Ups and Downs are guaranteed. Drama and conflict are unavoidable.

APO will always be a part of my life. It just stung a bit and it'll take a bit to get used to considering myself a member of the chapter again. But after reading all the posts here, I realized I shouldn't let a few people ruin it for me. Some brothers will come and go. Brothers fight. But in the end, the true brothers stick around and hug it out.

Very True. Not everyone will be our friends and we will make enemies along the way. But I was hoping there was atleast one that stood up during the whole sequence of events, but there wasn't. I can't fault them for having their own opinions, but it's just a matter of practicing what we preach that was upsetting.

Thanks for the advice. I wish you the best of luck in running for office.

If you have any other advice. Please feel free to say it. I'm always willing to listen and obtain advice from others.

[OPhiAGinger]

So what I'm struggling with is this.

Originally Posted by Anonymouse17

I didn't do anything wrong. I didn't break any rules, I didn't purposely make someone uncomfortable. I just wore plain clothes….

I believe you. But I also believe someone was uncomfortable because of what you wore. The bottom line is this: when you cause an issue for someone else even when it was unintentional and you didn't "do anything wrong", you apologize.

Your brothers may not have understood your medical condition. Your brothers were rude. Yes. But that doesn't make you a victim.

[WhiteRose1912]

I can't understand why this person thought he was being discriminated against because no one wanted to see the outline of his junk.

[anonymouse17]

Originally Posted by WhiteRose1912

I can't understand why this person thought he was being discriminated against because no one wanted to see the outline of his junk.

Well. As I stated, I wasn't alone when it came to wearing spandex/dri fit/compression clothing. There was atleast 10 others. 1 of which is male. There may be more, but of the list that I counted, I knew of one.

Had it been a complaint about the clothing in general and addressed that way then yes I would have no issue with it. But it was directed at me. It could have been addressed that compression clothing made others uncomfortable, and we as a chapter needed to find a solution so it doesn't get out of hand. instead of singling out one brother, we could have spoken about it as a chapter.

We're all supposed to be respectful adults. We're all supposed to be college students. We're all supposed to be equal brothers. However, how is it fair that a few brothers (male) could be topless at events, could wear compression clothing, and can dress however they want. Then there are a few brothers (female) can wear sports bras that may or may not have their nipples pointing out, a few brothers wear compression pants or yoga pants that is skin tight. Others who wear far more revealing clothing. But there is no reaction to that. Even the advisers didn't say anything about it. They ignored my complaint for the most part and refused to speak about it. But when it came to me, I made someone uncomfortable. So uncomfortable that they avoided events.

Maybe discrimination is the wrong word. But it's not fair and very unjust to allow everyone else to wear whatever they want and garner no complaints, but for me, it garnered complaints. Spandex/compression/dri fit clothing isn't the only clothing that shows a bulge or a lining. there are countless other clothes.

At the same time. It's not my fault I'm male. It's not like I'm walking around in a speedo or walking around naked. No, i'm wearing a tshirt and shorts. I have one short that is neon green, the rest are black. The black ones, yes you can see a lining, but while we're in doors and not in direct light, it takes effort to even see the lining. The neon green, there is no lining, it's just a bulge like cyclist shorts. I do have a pair of white shorts, but those are worn out and are starting to rip so I don't wear those to school anymore.

The same rules, the same bylaws, the same judgement, the same concepts should apply to us all. It shouldn't only be towards one or two people. Otherwise what we're promoting isn't equality, we're promoting a double standard. Bias, and discrimination. On a personal level, you don't have to be fair or equal. But when you get the organization involved, that's when fairness and equality should come into consideration.

Originally Posted by OPhiAGinger

So what I'm struggling with is this.

I believe you. But I also believe someone was uncomfortable because of what you wore. The bottom line is this: when you cause an issue for someone else even when it was unintentional and you didn't "do anything wrong", you apologize.

Your brothers may not have understood your medical condition. Your brothers were rude. Yes. But that doesn't make you a victim.

I understand. I could have been the bigger person that day and apologized. I just didn't feel that I should be the one apologizing. I was not in the wrong.

Medical condition, that can be ignored because its a confusing condition. One even my doctor didn't understand, he kept calling it Acne. And the dermatologist was no help either.

The jokes. We're all to blame. I'm to blame for not stopping it at the start. They are to blame for not realizing how their words can hurt others.

The bottom line for me was: The same concepts should be applied to everyone, not just me. If spandex is revealing and makes someone uncomfortable. That would mean they should have a problem with spandex no matter who wears it. Not just one person. It shouldn't be that its only revealing on only one person, it should be revealing on everyone who wears it.

Pretty much it's "if you don't like it when one person uses a certain thing, then it shouldn't be ok for anyone to use that thing." If you say x doesn't bother you when they wear something, but y does, then it's not equal treatment. it's unfair.

The comment about not showing up to events because of me is distasteful, disheartening and rude. It should not have been said in that way. To blame someone for you not showing up to events, is not the way to go.

If they didn't like me or was uncomfortable around me. There is one other way to handle it. To just ignore me. Stay away from me. No one is forced to be around me, no one is forced to talk to me. No one is forced to look at me. We had roughly 30-70 members (pledges and actives) at every event. I'm just one person. I'm not the active chair, I'm not the fellowship vp, I'm not in charge of the event. there is no reason they had to be around me or give me any attention whatsoever. Being at the event did not in any way require them to look or be around me.


But hey. What's done is done. What's said is said. It was a learning experience. Something I hope I don't have to experience again. On a personal level, sure I'll experience it again. I have no doubts about that. But on an organization level where equality should be considered, hopefully it doesn't come into play again.

[AZTheta]

Would you rather be right, or would you rather be happy?

Honestly, reading your lengthy posts several times, I'm thinking that you are holding on to something that would be best let go as it is in the past, and needs to stay there. No one saw it the way you wanted at the time; no one agreed with you, and you are struggling with that still.

I think Sen's advice was excellent and hope that you will find your way to a place where you can enjoy your membership the way he outlined it.

[anonymouse17]

Originally Posted by AZTheta

Would you rather be right, or would you rather be happy?

Honestly, reading your lengthy posts several times, I'm thinking that you are holding on to something that would be best let go as it is in the past, and needs to stay there. No one saw it the way you wanted at the time; no one agreed with you, and you are struggling with that still.

I think Sen's advice was excellent and hope that you will find your way to a place where you can enjoy your membership the way he outlined it.

It probably would be for the best to let it go. It still puzzles me as "what did I do wrong?" If other people are free to be who they are and dress how they want and it didn't seem to bother anyone, why couldn't I do the same? No one answered that question. But I guess. Maybe you're right. maybe it is time to let it go. It may just be a question that will never be answered and it's best to move on because it only holds me down and bothers me. It takes time to let go of stuff.

It's a learning experience. I'm positive i'll run into the problem again. But it may not be me next time. It may be a niece, a nephew, a friend, neighbor, student, mentee and so on. So i'll need to look it over in the future and see what is the better way of responding to it.

I would rather prefer it to be happy. I do enjoy the membership *now. It took nearly 2 years to begin to enjoy the membership again. Meeting newer members and some returning faces. It did make me happy and I did enjoy the membership. It felt like a whole new fraternity when I walked into union (cafeteria) and was approached by a Neo. I wore my APhiO shirt and just walking by, the Neo approached me, introduced himself, and we ended up having a small chat.
It was something different. It showed respect and pride.

So Sen is right. Those guys who said those things probably aren't there anymore. They probably have graduated and left.
The brothers who should matter to me should be the ones who stick around. Some people come and go. The really important ones stay around and make a lasting impression. There's a reason some people aren't a part of our lives. They aren't as important.

When the semester begins. It'll be a new experience for me with a new group of brothers. So I'll be looking forward to a whole new experience. Not as an active, but as a brother again.

[WhiteRose1912]

Nipples aren't genitals. I would hope if a female member of your organization regularly liked to show up to events with raging camel toe, that something would've been said to her, too. That shit's embarrassing and inappropriate for most circumstances.

I have to agree with everyone else. You're only hurting yourself by not moving on. Don't let people disagreeing with you ruin your membership.

[anonymouse17]

Originally Posted by WhiteRose1912

Nipples aren't genitals. I would hope if a female member of your organization regularly liked to show up to events with raging camel toe, that something would've been said to her, too. That shit's embarrassing and inappropriate for most circumstances.

I have to agree with everyone else. You're only hurting yourself by not moving on. Don't let people disagreeing with you ruin your membership.

I wouldn't know. As far as I know it, either it's never happened or no one's ever said anything before. But, I don't look for problems like that. I'm sure if we look hard enough we could probably find someone that fits that description or could easily be defined as innapropriate and uncomfortable to look at or be around. Closest could probably be someone's underwear showing, whether it's a guy's boxer or a girl's thong. That stuff is to some people, unappealing to look at and inappropriate. But people do it and others don't say anything about it.
I just mind my own business and do my own thing if I did see stuff like that. I'm in no position to judge others. I didn't go there to judge others. I went there to attend an event.

Now if my fly was open. then yes, by all means, tell me. that is embarrassing and should be notified asap.

The easiest way to solve the issue was to discuss proper dress code for regular events and define what "attire: Casual" meant. But we couldn't come to terms because that's what other orgs do and several members did not join another org because they were forced to dress a certain way all the time.

I"m trying to let it go and move on. it'll take time. It helps to talk it over. to clear the air and say what needs to be said. Release tension and stored feelings. All that stuff. So talking here does help.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by OPhiAGinger

So what I'm struggling with is this.

I believe you. But I also believe someone was uncomfortable because of what you wore. The bottom line is this: when you cause an issue for someone else even when it was unintentional and you didn't "do anything wrong", you apologize.

I hope you realize what a dangerous statement this is out of context.