Ferguson, MO

[KDCat]

Originally Posted by Kevin

On both sides of the case, that's true. The demonization of Wilson and the turning of Brown into some sort of martyr has polarized the case such that I doubt any good can come of it. As I understand it, St. Louis law enforcement took the Rams' gesture as a big 'ol eff u.

Most law enforcement officers are trying to do their job. In this case, what we know for a fact is that we had an officer who was trying to apprehend a criminal and we know the criminal resisted.

Police officers, especially in St. Louis probably have very little problem stepping into the shoes of Darren Wilson. They see how the community rose up against Wilson, threatening his life, his family's life and taking away his livelihood because he [in the eyes of most law enforcement personnel] did his job and arguably had to defend himself from a suspect who was capable of killing him.

Now consider that some of these bars probably have law enforcement officers as a large part of their clientele and you might come to the conclusion that the decision to express this level of angst over what a few Rams players did is economical more than ideological.

If you take Wilson's version of the facts as true, it still doesn't reflect well on him. Even if his versions of the facts are true, we know that he mismanaged the situation badly. Officers are trained to avoid putting themselves in situations where they need to use their guns. All Wilson had to do was call for expedited back-up, watch where Brown and Johnson went, and then confront them from a safe distance. He shouldn't have confronted them alone. He shouldn't have confronted them as aggressively as he did. He shouldn't have confronted them at the short distance that he did. It was terrible policing. Now Brown is dead and Wilson is out of a job and Ferguson has had multiple businesses burned.

That said, I was very happy to hear Obama endorse more training and uniform "use of force" policies for any agency that wants to use military surplus. That will improve many police departments and is a useful carrot to start addressing this situation.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by KDCat

If you take Wilson's version of the facts as true, it still doesn't reflect well on him. Even if his versions of the facts are true, we know that he mismanaged the situation badly. Officers are trained to avoid putting themselves in situations where they need to use their guns. All Wilson had to do was call for expedited back-up, watch where Brown and Johnson went, and then confront them from a safe distance. He shouldn't have confronted them alone. He shouldn't have confronted them as aggressively as he did. He shouldn't have confronted them at the short distance that he did. It was terrible policing. Now Brown is dead and Wilson is out of a job and Ferguson has had multiple businesses burned.

That said, I was very happy to hear Obama endorse more training and uniform "use of force" policies for any agency that wants to use military surplus. That will improve many police departments and is a useful carrot to start addressing this situation.

So the part in bold honestly made me LOL and face palm at the same time. That's a great strategy if you are in a controlled setting void of variables and the interactions of others. What you described as good policing reads to me as someone who is afraid to do their job as a police officer and is willing to let suspects get away. Police don't always have the luxury of "expedited back-up" and officers need to react to situations as they arise.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by KDCat

Now Brown is dead and Wilson is out of a job and Ferguson has had multiple businesses burned.

Let's be clear--Wilson had nothing to do with businesses being burned down. Let's lay the blame where it belongs--on the thugs and hoodlums who took advantage of a very bad situation where the police can't necessarily protect all of the property at once.

That said, I was very happy to hear Obama endorse more training and uniform "use of force" policies for any agency that wants to use military surplus. That will improve many police departments and is a useful carrot to start addressing this situation.

Sure that's great.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by pbear19

It's amazing to me how much hate and anger some people carry around with them.

There is hatred, anger, stupidity, unfounded arguments, "talking out the side of the ass", and "I'm mad because everyone else is mad but I haven't actually read up on this topic" on both sides of this issue.

That is why I became disinterested right after the grand jury announcement. Unlike many people (not GCers), I remain interested and socially active on the larger issues at stake rather than waiting for "a tragedy" to become interested and involved.

/vent

[pbear19]

Originally Posted by pbear19

It's amazing to me how much hate and anger some people carry around with them.

Since this one line of mine was quoted twice, I will comment on it myself. I never said that it was on one side only, although I realize my post could be interpreted that way.

For the record, I think the amount of hate and anger on this issue in general, regardless of the "side," is disheartening. I have friends on both "sides" who absolutely refuse to listen or think about anyone else's perspective. And I see a lot of anger, some warranted but much of it completely unwarranted.

[StealthMode]

If they don't have the good sense to cancel that...

ETA: The mayor cancelled his appearance but that won't be enough... http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/12/...tree-lighting/

[ZetaPhi708.20]

Theory: I bet that's why they are holding off on any use of tear gas due to the ceremony. Oh what a "spin city" nightmare that would be.

[DrPhil]

I love Jon Stewart. My sentiments exactly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBL5...E&noredirect=1

I disagree with the post-racial society part because there is no such thing as a post-racial society. Ever. Post-racialism has no value nor realism. I will never pretend to not notice racial, ethnic, and cultural commonalities and differences. I will never pretend to not be of the African diaspora. I will never stop discussing the positive aspects of race as well as the potential negative aspects of race that exist regardless of whether people wish to discuss. I certainly won't pretend post-racialism exists just so certain people (usually white) can sleep better at night. Other than the post-racial thing, Stewart is spot on.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Eric Garner.

[WhiteRose1912]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Eric Garner.

I cannot wrap my mind around this.

[TonyB06]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lalit-...b_6268738.html

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by WhiteRose1912

I cannot wrap my mind around this.

Institutionalized racism. Prison-industrial complex. Police brutality. Probably in that order.

[maconmagnolia]

The Eric Garner case is just awful. It's not like in Ferguson where there was conflicting testimony and physical evidence in support of the Officer's story. The entire thing was ON VIDEO. There is no disputing what happened. I can't even watch the entire video as it makes me sick to my stomach.

[maconmagnolia]

Another horrible case of police brutality:
http://www.wlwt.com/news/samantha-ra...arges/29612096

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by maconmagnolia

Another horrible case of police brutality:
http://www.wlwt.com/news/samantha-ra...arges/29612096

This is the case where the girl hit the police officer with her car, right? Yeah, the Duputy should hand known she was just stoned out of her mind and wasn't trying to kill him