Accepting a bid, but postponing pledging? - Page 2

thetalady · #1 08-29-2013, 10:37 AM

The thing that I am concerned about is participation in sorority events during this limbo period. Do we really think that these girls are not going to want to participate in sorority activities? And the actives are going to be concerned about losing the PNM/ pledge during that limbo semester, so they may allow the girl to come to events... without paying the dues needed ot pay for the event.

If you have gotten this question from more than 1 PNM in the same rush, I honestly think that this is a bright idea cooked up by a PNM in order to play without paying. She has passed her idea on to some other girls, who think it is a great idea, too.

I agree with the other ladies, shut it down.

DubaiSis · #2 08-29-2013, 02:18 PM

And you could do a moderately deferred rush, like Ole Miss who do it in October. That way the girls will be good and ready to make those bonds and pay whatever it takes!
Presuming these girls are of the smarty-pants variety, selling long term return on investment will probably work better than they would at the huge social life schools.

It doesn't surprise me that the girls are just having sticker shock. They haven't been bred from day 1 to join a sorority and if they are worried about paying for friendships, that is easy enough to counter. Networking, alumnae life, connections now, social life now, PLUS a good place to live outside the dorms and real food. If you're trying to sell an SEC style Greek experience, it's definitely going to fall flat, but what you have to offer is maybe even more critical to their happiness and personal success in college.

If you're in the middle of recruitment now, maybe you can think about a moderately more formalized COB in the spring, plus recruitment next year in mid-September or later. The good news with this small of a Greek system is you can make changes without a presidential decree.

QueenD · #3 08-29-2013, 04:48 PM

I am a chapter advisor as well, and I got asked this question by 2 of the ladies who got bids from my chapter on bid day. Here is what I learned.

a) Formal recruitment bids are good for a year, so even if you don't want to advertise that this can be done, you definitely should expect that when this scenario comes up you would allow that woman to complete the new member program the following semester or whatever.

b) If a girl matches bids in Formal recruitment and chooses not to take her bid at that time, but wants to join up later in that year, she is allowed to do so *even if the chapter has subsequently pledged Quota AND is at Total!". This is in the NPC Manual of Information and is part of the Panhellenic compact. From what I understand, the reasoning for this provision in the the Panhellenic compact is to accommodate the PNMs. If they sign the MRABA and get a bid from a chapter on the MRABA form, they are locked in to where they can only be in that chapter for a year - which means if they initially decline to join but the chapter reaches quota and total, they would be totally locked out of Greek life for the year. The NPC doesn't want to do that to women who want to be Greek. Makes sense to have this provision in there for those rare circumstances where it would apply.

In my case, the woman who was hesitant to join the chapter right after Formal is concerned primarily because she is also in Army ROTC and she wants to have a semester of getting used to that program before she commits to the sorority. She really loves the chapter I advise but wants to feel good about having her other ducks in a row - particularly the duck that is paying for her education.

AOII Angel · #4 09-02-2013, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QueenD

I am a chapter advisor as well, and I got asked this question by 2 of the ladies who got bids from my chapter on bid day. Here is what I learned.

a) Formal recruitment bids are good for a year, so even if you don't want to advertise that this can be done, you definitely should expect that when this scenario comes up you would allow that woman to complete the new member program the following semester or whatever.

b) If a girl matches bids in Formal recruitment and chooses not to take her bid at that time, but wants to join up later in that year, she is allowed to do so *even if the chapter has subsequently pledged Quota AND is at Total!". This is in the NPC Manual of Information and is part of the Panhellenic compact. From what I understand, the reasoning for this provision in the the Panhellenic compact is to accommodate the PNMs. If they sign the MRABA and get a bid from a chapter on the MRABA form, they are locked in to where they can only be in that chapter for a year - which means if they initially decline to join but the chapter reaches quota and total, they would be totally locked out of Greek life for the year. The NPC doesn't want to do that to women who want to be Greek. Makes sense to have this provision in there for those rare circumstances where it would apply.

In my case, the woman who was hesitant to join the chapter right after Formal is concerned primarily because she is also in Army ROTC and she wants to have a semester of getting used to that program before she commits to the sorority. She really loves the chapter I advise but wants to feel good about having her other ducks in a row - particularly the duck that is paying for her education.

The problem with this is that the NM is locked in for the year, but the chapter is NOT. If the NM wants to wait a semester, she needs to make sure the chapter is on board. Just because her bid is good for one year does NOT mean that the chapter is required to uphold the bid offer at a later date. Considering that the NM may put off pledging for time management or financial regions, chapters may have valid reasons for rescinding their bids.

AGDee · #5 09-02-2013, 02:33 AM

The biggest thing I think a campus panhellenic needs to think about when selecting a recruitment style is whether the effort=the benefit. Some of the campuses with chapters I've worked with where they do COB only now had quotas of 6 or less every year. Is it worth that budget, time and effort for 6 new members? One campus had a quota of 2 one year. All that, for two? It just isn't worth it.

ASTalumna06 · #6 09-02-2013, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGDee

The biggest thing I think a campus panhellenic needs to think about when selecting a recruitment style is whether the effort=the benefit. Some of the campuses with chapters I've worked with where they do COB only now had quotas of 6 or less every year. Is it worth that budget, time and effort for 6 new members? One campus had a quota of 2 one year. All that, for two? It just isn't worth it.

Exactly. Too much time, money, and effort is spent during formal recruitment to only come out with 6 new members in the end. And it especially doesn't make sense if you're getting 12 new members with informal recruitment, which most likely takes up only a fraction of the time, money, and effort of formal recruitment.

As the old adage says: work smarter, not harder.

amanda6035 · #7 09-02-2013, 08:15 AM

Ok... Thanks so much for the explanations

So that brings me to another question then. How do you get the necessary data to justify expansion, if that could be a possibility? For example, due to the nature of recruitment, and these girls being the type that "typically wouldn't go greek" the COB only with total could possibility limit greek life interest. It's been a long time coming, but both chapters are alot more stable now. With total where it is right now, it's possible that both chapters will be just at, or maybe slightly over total with formal recruitment and quota. So lets say that total is 35, both chapters have 30 going into formal recruitment and quota is 10. Okay... so I know that some of you are going to say "increase total!" but I don't know if that is the right answer. What if a 3rd chapter could be needed? If we had total at 35, and several years of formal recruitment and both chapters ending up over total after formal recruitment, it may be a good time to discuss expansion. But if you do COB only, you limit the chapters to only picking up enough girls to meet total, and won't necessarily know if there is enough interest to warrant a 3rd chapter, because the girls who didn't join aren't the type to express interest because they didn't know that greek life was really an option, nor do they care.

I'm a money person - I feel ya on the amount of money spent and the effort, and think it's a very valid point, but I think last years quota was artificially low. Quota is typically 9-12, and we're hoping it will be more than that this year. 15 would be AWESOME (fingers crossed).

33girl · #8 09-03-2013, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGDee

The biggest thing I think a campus panhellenic needs to think about when selecting a recruitment style is whether the effort=the benefit. Some of the campuses with chapters I've worked with where they do COB only now had quotas of 6 or less every year. Is it worth that budget, time and effort for 6 new members? One campus had a quota of 2 one year. All that, for two? It just isn't worth it.

Well, at schools like this, the $$ and time outlay for rush is considerably smaller than a Big 10/SEC school. For instance, we never had a work week - I don't think any of the groups did. We barely had dress checks and we certainly didn't buy special clothing. The people who were in the skit practiced it a couple times, and that was it. As far as $$? I know this is decades ago, but when I read about chapters spending thousands of $$$....I don't think everyone (7 groups) on our campus spent $1000 combined.

The point is too often - especially if the school allows first semester freshmen to rush - women get in their head which group they want before meeting all or even half of them. They go to that group and only that group's COB events. The group doesn't bid her. This doesn't make her say "well, XYZ didn't want me, I'll check out the other groups." This makes her say "sorority girls are all stuck up bitches and I want nothing to do with the Greek system." She might not have that attitude if she had gotten to meet women in the other chapters and realize that there is more than one group out there.

I know it seems like it isn't worth it, but if it keeps women engaged and interested in the possibility of Greek life, even with a quota of 2, it IS worth it.

AGDee · #9 09-02-2013, 11:14 AM

If more and more women are showing up to COB events and both chapters are having to turn away women they really want because there are too many, then it is time to raise Total. If there were enough of those women to fill a whole chapter to Total, then consider expansion.

It's a Panhellenic decision, but I don't think I would encourage expansion until both chapters were pretty consistently around 50 members and you were turning lots of women away, honestly. If quota is typically 9-12, then, without having COB and with 100% retention, an ideal total would be two times that- 36-48. But, if Total is 48 and you have one less stellar year with a quota of 6, then both chapters are scrambling to get 6 more through COB to stay up there. And, retention is rarely 100%.

DubaiSis · #10 09-02-2013, 02:34 PM

Not every school has massive chapter sizes and still has expansion (looking at DePaul and Virginia Commonwealth) because I'm assuming they have a total in their head that they want to keep and continued expansion is what it's taking to get that done. But I think 35 as a desired total is too low. It doesn't allow for any hiccups in the process. Shoot for 50-60, use the chapter averaging to set total annually, and when you are pushing 50-60, you could open up for expansion. Since panhellenic only consists of 2 chapters, your decision to expand or not expand is pretty easy. If the other chapter is on board with this type of goal setting, then I think you could start researching the process now, quietly start figuring out which sororities might be on board when the time comes, and then go about getting the numbers to justify the growth.

DubaiSis · #11 09-04-2013, 12:16 AM

I'm picturing 2 sororities with 30 members each trying to pull off door stacking or out-shouting the other as you do your skits and the crazy antics at door open and door close. HA! Yes, the very small campus rush resembles the huge schools in that there are actives meeting rushees, and at the end there are pledges. And that's about the end of the similarities. There would be no trying to game the system so they could get away with spending an extra $500 or $1000 since they wouldn't even be able to figure out HOW to spend that much money if they had it. And this is something that should be nurtured. No need to noodge them into starting any bad habits!

amanda6035 · #12 09-04-2013, 08:53 AM

I had never even HEARD of door stacking until GC. Until the chapters got houses a few years ago, recruitment was held in 2 rooms in the student center.... and there was no door stacking then... though, there was alot of singing as loud as possible without sounding like a screeching owl after the PNMs left and the door was closed.

AXiDTrish · #13 09-10-2013, 10:33 PM

Thought I would provide a follow up...

Quota was 13 this year. I know we pledged all our NM's without any of the concerns I started this thread about. Not sure about the other chapter, but I assume much of the same. We had a few girls who dropped out to wait for spring, assuming the chapters are below total.

Thanks for the advice...looks like it worked out.