Diversity in the SEC

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by carnation

Whites can't win. If we don't pledge black girls (they may or may not be rushing NPCs because they prefer NPHCs), we're racist. If we pledge the few who rush, we're practicing tokenism. If only a few rush, we didn't make them welcome, even though they might only want to be in Mom's NPHC. If we pledge some and don't think the right thing about them, whatever the heck that is, we get a crown for racial cliches.

We can't win.

White people aren't not winning with this.

The key is multitasking. Boasting "have all different types of minorities...from looking at pictures" and "my daughter and her sorority are concerned, they are just sisters" are cliche' statements whites tend to make when discussing race. This topic has to do with race and GLOs but the foundation is the same. It reeks of "I see 'those people'...they are here...and there's plenty of them" and "we are colorblind...I need to pretend I don't notice our differences in order for us to love each other".

Originally Posted by carnation

And five of my daughters aren't white and I don't think about it much at all and I'm off to have my racial cliches crown with 5 jewels made.

Why do many white people feel the need to proclaim this? It reinforces this notion of whiteness as a carefree, race neutral, and powerful identity. Just because you claim not to notice or think about something doesn't mean it is void or invisible. It doesn't mean that everyone else, including the racial and ethnic minorities themselves, do not notice or think about it. That is one of the foundations of tokenism. Race, gender, and other minority tokens are expected to smile and pretend as though their minority status is moot 24/7.

[carnation]

Few parents of adopted non-white children spend much time thinking about their children's races. Maybe before they arrive, yes, but afterwards you're spending so much time parenting them that there's little time to think, "Dang. My child is ______." But they are not tokenists.

My daughters don't think about being non-white 99% of the time. They just live their lives. Like us, they mix with the people they want and race isn't an issue. When we took them to "cultural" events when they were children, they thought we were weird; they really wanted to go home and play with their friends. But we weren't tokenists for trying.

My mother rarely thinks about not being all white. Life's too busy. I don't sit down every day and consider racial issues when I'm checking the roll in class. I have stuff to do.

Think I'll turn down that crown, I have too much to do to go have it made.

[PKTKKG]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

White people aren't not winning with this.

The key is multitasking. Boasting "have all different types of minorities...from looking at pictures" and "my daughter and her sorority are concerned, they are just sisters" are cliche' statements whites tend to make when discussing race. This topic has to do with race and GLOs but the foundation is the same. It reeks of "I see 'those people'...they are here...and there's plenty of them" and "we are colorblind...I need to pretend I don't notice our differences in order for us to love each other".



Why do many white people feel the need to proclaim this? It reinforces this notion of whiteness as a carefree, race neutral, and powerful identity. Just because you claim not to notice or think about something doesn't mean it is void or invisible. It doesn't mean that everyone else, including the racial and ethnic minorities themselves, do not notice or think about it. That is one of the foundations of tokenism. Race, gender, and other minority tokens are expected to smile and pretend as though their minority status is moot 24/7.

Just a general observation - I don't think anyone has a carefree life. Everyone has challenges in life to overcome, everyone deals with problems that come their way, and yes some people have more difficulties in their lives for different reasons. It is good to have open and honest conversations with people who have different opinions knowing that there are times people may just have to agree to disagree.

I have known minority sisters of my sorority and I have known minority sisters of divine nine sororities. One divine nine member girl I knew was shocked that my sorority had an African American local alum and to her it was unacceptable the lady was not a part of the divine nine. Truthfully I was surprised this was her take on the situation but whatever. To each his own. Go where your heart leads you, be who you are and who you want to be. No one owes anyone else an explanation about who they are to others.

Observing diversity in any organization is not a value judgement except that it seems to indicate that more people are relating to others according to the content of their character rather than by the color of their skin/religious beliefs/sexual orientation. Considering that all of our respective orgs began in another time when there was significant segregation (and when it was rare for women to even go to college at all), it is natural that orgs would continue as they have traditionally. It is nice to see that recently all groups have been more open outside of that tradition so that each individual is free to pursue membership in their own way and with a group by mutual selection and choice.

[TNAuburnMom]

Well, bless your heart. Since you don't know my background, let me tell you a little story.

My father spent 26 years in the military, which was desegregated long before the general population. We Army brats that lived on military posts our entire childhood are a unique group. Children of all races, colors, creeds, and backgrounds lived together in small areas. We went to school together, to chapels together, played sports together, tried to learn new languages and cultures together and even attended funerals together as parents were killed in the line of duty. Skin color was about as important as eye color when deciding who to play with, who to be friends with, who to ask to prom, who to date, and who to eventually marry. What you consider a racial cliche was our reality. My black friends, Asian friends, white friends, Hispanic friends, Native American friends, Puerto Rican friends, gay friends, (for the record, at one point in my teenage years, I went on at least one date with guys in each of the categories above) lesbian friends, straight friends from high school didn't spend every day worried about how we were all different from each other. Our agenda consisted of living our lives and hoping no soldiers in Class As knocked on the door.

We raised our children right outside a military post with the same beliefs. The only trait of any real importance is the content of one's character.

When my daughter talks about member's of her sorority, I hear about "my sister Mary" or "my sister Kim" and when I ask which one Kim is (because I have a hard time keeping it straight), I hear "the biology major that lives on the hall" not "one of the several minority girls in the sorority". I am sure there are sororities at Auburn that would never offer a bid to a minority. Fortunately, my daughter is not in one of them. They don't have tokens. They have sisters.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

*Putting the "Racial Cliche' Crown" on TNAuburnMom's head*

Unfortunate.

[rockwallgreek]

Originally Posted by TNAuburnMom

Well, bless your heart. Since you don't know my background, let me tell you a little story.

My father spent 26 years in the military, which was desegregated long before the general population. We Army brats that lived on military posts our entire childhood are a unique group. Children of all races, colors, creeds, and backgrounds lived together in small areas. We went to school together, to chapels together, played sports together, tried to learn new languages and cultures together and even attended funerals together as parents were killed in the line of duty. Skin color was about as important as eye color when deciding who to play with, who to be friends with, who to ask to prom, who to date, and who to eventually marry. What you consider a racial cliche was our reality. My black friends, Asian friends, white friends, Hispanic friends, Native American friends, Puerto Rican friends, gay friends, (for the record, at one point in my teenage years, I went on at least one date with guys in each of the categories above) lesbian friends, straight friends from high school didn't spend every day worried about how we were all different from each other. Our agenda consisted of living our lives and hoping no soldiers in Class As knocked on the door.

We raised our children right outside a military post with the same beliefs. The only trait of any real importance is the content of one's character.

When my daughter talks about member's of her sorority, I hear about "my sister Mary" or "my sister Kim" and when I ask which one Kim is (because I have a hard time keeping it straight), I hear "the biology major that lives on the hall" not "one of the several minority girls in the sorority". I am sure there are sororities at Auburn that would never offer a bid to a minority. Fortunately, my daughter is not in one of them. They don't have tokens. They have sisters.

As a mom who raised 4 daughters, all members of an NPC, and two of those daughters who are looking to adopt, and both are totally welcoming to a child in need, the military lifestyle is different. To quote a song, "red and yellow, black and white" plus we learned about Intuits and Eskimos during a tour in Alaska, the military lifestyle is different.

[DrPhil]

I know no one has a carefree life. That is why I want the notion of whiteness as carefree, unobservant, and race neutral to stop. White people have race and ethnicities (plural). The social dynamics around the world would not be as they are if a large percentage of whites did not notice, think about, and act on race and ethnicity. Claiming to not notice and think about these things does not make that true at all times. This isn't about carnation because cliche' means that it is common across contexts.

I agree with sigmadiva.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Wait, did this become a thread about how hard it is to be a white person? Awesome.

White people are not "damned if we do, damned if we don't." We have the privilege of just throwing up our hands in the air and walking away from thinking about race. Women of color do not.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by TNAuburnMom

What you consider a racial cliche was our reality.

One part of reality is realizing when some experiences are less prevalent. Another part of reality is realizing that the military desegregation did not eradicate racism and racial inequality in the military. People can hang together but the real signs of inclusivity and equality is when social outcomes like military hiring and promotions are not negatively shaped by race and ethnicity, gender, and sexual orientation. While you kids were playing, that is what the adults were grappling with.

That is why people need to see this from the perspective of the nonmajority. My white friends know that I love them dearly but I never want them to pretend as though we have to ignore racial identity and certain social outcomes to love each other. We discuss race and ethnicity and never pretend as though we need faux colorblind in order to survive.

[DrPhil]

Those of you who wish to stop discussing should do so. The rest of us will continue until we are done. Greekchat is funny in that any other SEC thread can go for pages with sometimes no real need to keep going. But mention diversity and race and suddenly SEC threads need to have an official end point and silence announcement in order to make some people's Cheerios float in the almond milk. Eat your Cheerios and drink the leftover almond milk while we discuss.

Plus, discussion is about knowledge and understanding. It is not always about changing minds and agreement. Greekchatters like HartofSEC are curious about some things. HartofSEC can use our discussion as research even if it appears as though (hint ) we are not directly answering HartofSEC's question.

[33girl]

I understand what DrPhil and sigmadiva are saying. We are talking about groups where (in some chapters) there are pages and pages of appropriate wardrobe for rush, behavioral standards, etc. In such a situation where the tiniest things are noticed, it's kind of asinine to say "I don't even notice she's black." What are you, blind? (Maybe you get extra points for pledging a blind girl. And if she was blind AND black - WOW!)

And as far as NPC orgs go, there are some chapters of historically Jewish organizations where a non-Jew would feel very unwelcome, and the national group apparently has no problem with that. That sounds judgy, I don't mean it to, just stating a fact, and that is their right to exercise membership selection however they want to. NPC hasn't kicked them out yet.

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Plus, discussion is about knowledge and understanding. It is not always about changing minds and agreement. Greekchatters like HartofSEC are curious about some things. HartofSEC can use our discussion as research even if it appears as though (hint ) we are not directly answering HartofSEC's question.

If I am to use this discussion as research -- I find the conclusions regarding how white people feel to be either surprising, since I am white, or amazingly clairvoyant, if you are not:

Originally Posted by DrPhil

These discussions are not about tutorials for white people. Not every nonwhite person is going to like what you say and do. No one is obligated to be receptive and welcoming to white people. Racial and ethnic minorities (in general) are accustomed to that. Whites (in general) are not accustomed to that and feel entitled to getting unwarranted smiles and tutorials. Perhaps silently observing would work when all else fails. The need to figuratively shout your presence and flounce is the same race cliche and white privilege all over again.

The topic of this thread is Diversity in the SEC. If this issue actually is important to you (beyond an opportunity to grandstand), it doesn't make sense to whack members of the target audience who are in a position to advocate for change.

[Titchou]

Most schools now have freshman and transfer orientations in the summer. Alabama, Auburn, the large SEC schools have a 2-3 day orientation with parents in attendance as well. All student organizations have booths/presentations/etc so that the incoming students can see what orgs are on campus and how thaey recruit/sign up members.

[DrPhil]

That is wonderful. All of our GLOs are awesome with fish jumping in our boats.

The difference is some GLOs (or chapters of GLOs) have expressed interest in widening the net and increasing diversity. What DeltaBetaBaby said pertains to those GLOs. There is a difference between nonmembers telling GLOs they need diversity versus members, themselves, claiming their GLO needs diversity. This thread is about the latter.

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

That is wonderful. All of our GLOs are awesome with fish jumping in our boats.

The boats in the SEC runneth over with fish. You are free to judge that reality however you wish.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

The difference is some GLOs (or chapters of GLOs) have expressed interest in widening the net and increasing diversity. What DeltaBetaBaby said pertains to those GLOs. There is a difference between nonmembers telling GLOs they need diversity versus members, themselves, claiming their GLO needs diversity. This thread is about the latter.

This thread has already slammed the door on some of the potential latter.

Which GLOs are being proactive in increasing diversity? I'm interested in seeing what these GLOs are doing.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

If I am to use this discussion as research

That is completely up to you.

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

The topic of this thread is Diversity in the SEC. If this issue actually is important to you....

No, as I have said a couple of times in this thread, diversity in the SEC is not important to me. As I have also said a couple of times in this thread, my posts are not about diversity in the SEC but about a larger point that is often missed.

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

The boats in the SEC runneth over with fish. You are free to judge that reality however you wish.

I feel like there is a joke or play on words that I am missing here. Either that or I am baffled as to why you think I would judge that reality.

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

This thread has already slammed the door on some of the potential latter.

If you are saying that some people will abandon the issue of diversity in the SEC because of a GC thread, those people are easily deterred fools who never wanted diversity. They wanted a quick and easy fix that required minimal effort, minimal discomfort, and minimal inconvenience. Those people are indicative of what some of us have been saying in this thread.