Why are recs absolutely necessary at some schools, while not expected at others?

[MaryPoppins]

"You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment" - Francis Urqhart/House of Cards

[MaryPoppins]

Originally Posted by MaryPoppins

"You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment" - Francis Urqhart/House of Cards

Please excuse my dry sense of humor, it is wry and sometimes very sarcastic.

Recs/refs help give the lesser known PNMs a chance in a huge PNM class. So many PNMs, up to 50% coming from out of state, recs/refs can only help them. Perhaps the hard requirement for a rec/ref needs to be removed?

[AXOrushadvisor]

I totally disagree. I think recs have a very appropriate place in the recruitment process. Think of it this way; I would rather hire someone that comes to me with a personal recommendation then someone I find in a standard interview process. A recommendation from an alum that personally knows a young women should hold a lot of weight. No one should recommend a PNM for membership that they don't think would make a great member. Some people interview (recruit) very well. You hire (pledge) them and they are psycho. Hopefully you can avoid those mistakes by having a recommendation.

[MaryPoppins]

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor

I totally disagree. I think recs have a very appropriate place in the recruitment process. Think of it this way; I would rather hire someone that comes to me with a personal recommendation then someone I find in a standard interview process. A recommendation from an alum that personally knows a young women should hold a lot of weight. No one should recommend a PNM for membership that they don't think would make a great member. Some people interview (recruit) very well. You hire (pledge) them and they are psycho. Hopefully you can avoid those mistakes by having a recommendation.

Amen

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by MaryPoppins

"You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment" - Francis Urqhart/House of Cards

Whatever. Easy may not have been an appropriate word choice, but if you sort into rec/no rec and no rec = cut, it does simplify things a bit.

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor

I totally disagree. I think recs have a very appropriate place in the recruitment process. Think of it this way; I would rather hire someone that comes to me with a personal recommendation then someone I find in a standard interview process. A recommendation from an alum that personally knows a young women should hold a lot of weight. No one should recommend a PNM for membership that they don't think would make a great member. Some people interview (recruit) very well. You hire (pledge) them and they are psycho. Hopefully you can avoid those mistakes by having a recommendation.

While there's no way to get these numbers, I think it would be interesting to know what percentage of recs are actually written by women who know the PNM, and aren't family friends or even friends of friends (see coffee scenario noted above). I have known women over the years who are total wrecks in real life but who are able to hold it together in the kinds of social situations that a family friend would be privy to. The family friend and friend of friends scenarios are less valuable in my opinion.

Anecdotally, I know when I went through, there were 15 chapters on my campus. Of my recs, about half were teachers and friends parents who had spent a significant amount of time with me in every day life. The remainder, not so much. I think it's this remainder category that kind of cheapens the value of a rec.

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor

I totally disagree. I think recs have a very appropriate place in the recruitment process. Think of it this way; I would rather hire someone that comes to me with a personal recommendation then someone I find in a standard interview process. A recommendation from an alum that personally knows a young women should hold a lot of weight. No one should recommend a PNM for membership that they don't think would make a great member. Some people interview (recruit) very well. You hire (pledge) them and they are psycho. Hopefully you can avoid those mistakes by having a recommendation.

I'm on this page....but I will also admit that I am old line southern and Cajun. Both cultures are strong on the "who's your Daddy" element - in fact, it's always stated as one of 3 questions a Cajun boy asks a girl he meets. And I truly do call around on anyone who asks me for a rec if I don't already know her. Granted, not everyone puts the research in but I was "raised" that way and I still do it. I just can't see putting my name on a form approving someone for membership if I didn't really know about her.

[MaryPoppins]

Originally Posted by Titchou

And I truly do call around on anyone who asks me for a rec if I don't already know her. Granted, not everyone puts the research in but I was "raised" that way and I still do it.

In the Mississippi Delta, the question is "And what is your mother's maiden name?" The question, "Where are you from?" deals more with: 1) where you were born; 2) where are "your people" from, and where do you bury "your people." My answers: The Delta, The Delta and Wyoming ; and Sumner.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Titchou

I'm on this page....but I will also admit that I am old line southern and Cajun. Both cultures are strong on the "who's your Daddy" element - in fact, it's always stated as one of 3 questions a Cajun boy asks a girl he meets. And I truly do call around on anyone who asks me for a rec if I don't already know her. Granted, not everyone puts the research in but I was "raised" that way and I still do it. I just can't see putting my name on a form approving someone for membership if I didn't really know about her.

Crazy idea: what if the recs could be from ANY NPC alumna? What if all PNM's were expected to find, say, three recs in total, and have them sent to all chapters?

1) I'd rather see a personal rec from an XYZ who knows the PNM than a rec from an alumna of my own group who met the woman for lunch once, and

2) If an alumna of XYZ says that a PNM is fit for membership in her group, I generally take it to mean that she's fit for membership in my own, too.

3) It's hard to imagine there are areas of the country where women couldn't find SOME sorority women they know personally. There's still a race/class aspect, but the geography problem is pretty quickly solved.

[DaffyKD]

In all my years as a KD, I have only written 1 rec other than the legacy form I sent to my daughter's school. The young lady was going through rush at an SEC school, waiting until the last minute to contact our headquarters trying to track down a rec. Headquarters contacted the Alumnae Chapter and I was given the "opportunity" to meet the young lady. I did not check the box that asked if I knew the girl personally. I also stated right on the form that my recommendation was based on meeting the young lady for 30 minutes. No one I knew had any connection with her. I e-mail it off to the chapter. As far as I have been led to understand through the GC grapevine that listed the new members by chapter at that school she either dropped out of recruitment or all houses dropped her.

I felt that my rec was a total waste of time since it did not give the chapter a glowing review of the young lady. I can see where it was used as a means of dropping her for someone who had a more glowing rec.

In my day, National required them but the chapters sent out the forms to the various AC's to get them filled out. We had to do it quickly as we had to relie on pony express. No one had a fax in their home, computers were still using punch cards, etc. We did take recs over the phone if we had to. Who ever was our rec chair would be up all night trying to locate someone who would write something. Glad those days are behind us.

DaffyKD

[MaryPoppins]

Originally Posted by DaffyKD

We did take recs over the phone if we had to. Who ever was our rec chair would be up all night trying to locate someone who would write something. Glad those days are behind us.

Amen. Working with a dot matrix print out of alumnae sorted by Zipcode in the weeks leading up to rush with the office phone was shear insanity.

[sigmagirl2000]

This rec thing is stressing me out currently. As a high school teacher in Massachusetts, I have a student who has been seeking my help for the last 6 months or so in trying to learn all she can to prepare for recruitment at University of Alabama in the fall. She knows she needs recommendations, but they're very hard to come by. Not all groups are well represented in the Northeast, and it's been hard going trying to find a representative for each group.
This student fears she will be at a major disadvantage being from so far away in an area where she is struggling to meet women to recommend her. Even if she does meet them, it will still not be these "I personally know the PNM" kind of recommendation, yet much time and research has gone into even finding women to do these.
I am struggling to find connections for her as well. This isn't a kid who isn't willing to put in the work, time, effort, etc. It saddens me that a kid who is willing to do all the leg work will still end up with recs that mean less than other pnms who will have more meaningful ones simply because of where the grew up.

End rant.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by sigmagirl2000

This rec thing is stressing me out currently. As a high school teacher in Massachusetts, I have a student who has been seeking my help for the last 6 months or so in trying to learn all she can to prepare for recruitment at University of Alabama in the fall. She knows she needs recommendations, but they're very hard to come by. Not all groups are well represented in the Northeast, and it's been hard going trying to find a representative for each group.
This student fears she will be at a major disadvantage being from so far away in an area where she is struggling to meet women to recommend her. Even if she does meet them, it will still not be these "I personally know the PNM" kind of recommendation, yet much time and research has gone into even finding women to do these.
I am struggling to find connections for her as well. This isn't a kid who isn't willing to put in the work, time, effort, etc. It saddens me that a kid who is willing to do all the leg work will still end up with recs that mean less than other pnms who will have more meaningful ones simply because of where the grew up.

End rant.

Maybe the Greater Boston Alumnae Panhellenic could assist?

[sigmagirl2000]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Maybe the Greater Boston Alumnae Panhellenic could assist?

Thanks, yeah, I should have added in that I've sent out emails to them and so has student. I am hoping that the contact info on their site is current. I'm also hoping that we can connect with them as my alumnae chapter can't seem to find a contact with the boston area alumnae Panhellenic, and maybe this will help with that as well so SK could get involved. Hopefully this will be a win win situation.

[Titchou]

In Cajun culture, the questions are 1) can you make a roux - because that's the basis of a lot of their cooking, 2) can you speak French - because many older relatives don't speak English, and 3) who's your daddy - because the Cajun area is so small and there are so few Cajun surnames that this gives the questioner a sense of where you are from, where your people are and where they are buried because the Cajuns didn't stray far from home once they settled an area. They would have been too discriminated against and probaly didn't speak enough English to get by in another culture.

[MaryPoppins]

Originally Posted by Titchou

In Cajun culture, the questions are 1) can you make a roux - because that's the basis of a lot of their cooking, 2) can you speak French - because many older relatives don't speak English, and 3) who's your daddy - because the Cajun area is so small and there are so few Cajun surnames that this gives the questioner a sense of where you are from, where your people are and where they are buried because the Cajuns didn't stray far from home once they settled an area. They would have been too discriminated against and probaly didn't speak enough English to get by in another culture.

The Delta starts in the lobby of the Peabody Hotel in Memphis, and extends southward to Greenville (some people say Vicksburg) and thence to the edge of the hills on East from Greenwood bordered by the hills and back up to the Peabody. It is a lengthy, wide, sparsely settled agricultural flood plain, where you might have to travel far from home to find what you need. That's how my Mimi met my Grandaddy. She had a flat tire out of town and needed a rec (from her cousin) to a reputable repair shop. Grandaddy had a Chrysler dealership. It was love at first sight (XΩ+KA)