The Murder of Trayvon Martin

[DrPhil]

Long post ahead:

LOL. The media is the media. People who want the "raw data" need to watch the trial instead of waiting for the media's Cliff Notes.

On that note, there are things that people sitting in the courtroom will see that those watching the TV trial will not see. For instance, the jury is not always in the courtroom when the defense attorney is strongly opposing the judge. The fact that the jury is not always in the courtroom during those exchanges matters a great deal.

I have been watching the trial but, frankly, I find this case to be quite annoying for many reasons. My mom has been following this probably as much as AGDee's dad's wife. Every time my mom calls, I know it is to discuss the trial so I let it go to voicemail sometimes. LOL.

My mom and I had a fun debate this morning about the jury's decision. I do not have high hopes so I will not be shocked either way. I definitely do not want rioting. I commend the community leaders and media representatives who have worked tirelessly to prepare people for any outcome. This will prayerfully reduce the shock and anger if there is a not guilty verdict for ANY charge. I want people to use their anger to push for positive community change and support the family in a possible appeal or civil suit. Besides violence being too shortsighted and predictable, it has no benefits. As with most instances of public outrage in human history, I will use the Rodney King verdict as an example, people get violent and become that which they claimed to despise. They tend to tear apart their own communities, many of which are already struggling, and become what many whites (yes, this is a racial divide) would consider an illustration of why Trayvon Martin got what he deserved. And I hope and pray that people do not physically attack George Zimmerman. Vigilante justice grates my nerves. I dislike taking the law into your own hands whether we are talking about Joe Horn in Texas, George Zimmerman in Florida, many excuses used for Stand Your Ground laws, and people physically attacking someone who they believe got away from the law.

All in all, although this has not been proven in a court of law, I truly believe that Zimmerman took the Neighborhood Watch beyond the level of being an observant neighbor who calls the police a lot. I believe he was pissed at the things happening in his neighborhood and thought he would make sure it ended. I believe Zimmerman was being froggy and took a leap that ended up with his ass getting whooped. Trayvon Martin had every right to defend himself and whoop Zimmerman's ass. I wish it would have ended with just an ass whooping and perhaps even the police stepping in to arrest the ass whooper and ass whoopee. At least they would have both lived to tell about it.

This is yet another reminder that guns are a facilitating factor for crime and violence. I want the fools who use the phrase "guns don't kill people, people kill people" to choke on it. I am not anti-guns but I am anti-bullshit. The day that the NRA and other gun advocates acknowledge that they are majority white and of certain socioeconomic statuses, and the day they acknowledge that this gun debate would have been shut down years ago if the majority of NRA and gun rights advocates were Black and nonwhite Hispanic men particularly in lower SES, is the day I will take the pro-gun people seriously.

I truly believe George Zimmerman does NOT look white. He doesn't. However, as with many Hispanics since Hispanic is an ethnicity that encompasses different races, it can be the case that Zimmerman used his last name and other ways to assimilate into whiteness. That is absolutely fine because it is personal choice. However, I believe Zimmerman's family has highlighted the nonwhite and Hispanic aspects of themselves more since this trial began. I also disagree with Anderson Cooper, et al and believe Zimmerman intentionally gained weight to appear less capable of being an aggressive ass whooper. Similarly, Trayvon Martin's family downplayed the dumb things this teen has done over the years that could make him come across as a thug--or wanna be thug. Sure, those things do not mean that he deserved to be shot for having a hoodie and Skittles. But those things would have some people believe that he was being the aggressor and Zimmerman was defending himself.

And while I'm at it, I love Anderson Cooper 360 but some of those expert commentators have been annoying me. I agree with what some of the panelists have said. I agree with much of what Sunny Hostin says and hated it last night when the remaining panel experts (not Anderson Cooper) told her that she was bringing in her own biases. First off, Sunny Hostin is a former prosecutor. Second off, she has been in the courtroom everyday of this trial. Third off, ALL HUMANS bring in their own biases. Even when we know the facts, we pick and choose which things to highlight and which things we agree and disagree with. Not all legal experts agree on these topics and people are not automatically uninformed, emotional, biased fools just because you disagree with their expert opinion. With that said, this is another example of white male privilege. We have a panel of white men on Anderson Cooper 360 who get to pretend as though they are robots whereas Sunny Hostin is the only human on the panel. Sunny Hostin handled their stupidity quite well and told them that, yes, she brings in her biases as a Black Hispanic woman, former prosecutor...and other biases...who has been sitting in that courtroom everyday. Take that, white men panelists!

[AOII Angel]

Dr. Phil, I have watched very little of the coverage because I never do watch any of these high profile trials and the hoopla that accompanies them. Appreciate your thought on this matter and agree. I am saddened by this unnecessary event. It hurts my brain to think about how this spiraled into such a moronic showdown all because of a gun and GZ's vigilante sense of justice. I agree that Trayvon Martin had every right to kick his ass and didn't deserve a gunshot through the heart for the effort. If GZ'S was so scared that he needed that gun, he should have kept his scared ass in his car or his house.

The only thing that comforts me in all of this, since no verdict will bring a 17 yo back, is that GZ will never live a normal life again. He's not employable. He is a pariah. And he deserves it.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

If GZ'S was so scared that he needed that gun, he should have kept his scared ass in his car or his house.

Quoted for truth.

There is more that I can say about this, including personal experience, but this isn't one of THOSE threads.

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

The only thing that comforts me in all of this, since no verdict will bring a 17 yo back, is that GZ will never live a normal life again. He's not employable. He is a pariah. And he deserves it.

That remains to be seen. Joe Horn in Texas is a retiree and some of the public (especially in Texas) loved him before and after he was cleared by a grand jury. Zimmerman isn't a retiree but may find work because 1) there are some people who think he did the right thing; 2) there are jobs where his name and face will not be revealed...becoming a 911 Dispatcher would be ironic; 3) time can heal some wounds; and 4) George Zimmerman's father, Robert Zimmerman, knows people. Random Sidebar: "George Zimmerman" and "Robert Zimmerman" are not completely uncommon names. Robert Zimmerman is also the name of a CNN contributor and Bob Dylan's birthname.

***
I believe they up-played their Hispanic roots for this case but the Zimmermans claimed they downplayed their Hispanic roots. I believe up-playing would have a more desired outcome than downplaying. It would be the difference between it being Black-and-white versus Black-and-nonwhite Hispanic. Race and potential racial tension doesn't disappear when it is Black-and-nonwhite Hispanic but it doesn't have the same history and present day race relations.

Fox News Latino article published today:
http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2013/07/12/george-zimmerman-family-deliberately-downplayed-his-latino-roots/

Do I believe Zimmerman would have done what he did if he assumed the hooded person was white? NO and he wouldn't be the first or last person to respond to people based on appearances and assumptions. Do I believe Zimmerman would have been arrested and treated like an offender if he had done this to a white 17 year old? YES. That includes a white 17 year old who was smoking a blunt and putting up graffiti rather than walking in the rain with a hoodie and Skittles. Do I believe Zimmerman would have been treated like an offender if his Hispanic identity was more highlighted or if he was a Black man? YES, especially if Martin was white. There would be less public outrage, angst, and urgency if it was a Black or nonwhite Hispanic 17 year old.

Now we wait for the jury.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

I haven't been following it closely either (too depressing to see what has become of our society), but I thought the note from the judge that she will allow manslaughter is a flag to the jurors that that's what they should do.

The jury might see it as a signal, but they shouldn't. If Florida law is anything like the law here, the judge doesn't have any discretion about it. If a defendant requests an instruction on a lesser included offense, and there is evidence from which a jury could find the elements of that lesser included offense, then the judge is required to give the instruction.

I guess I should give make this disclaimer: I haven't watched a minute of the trial or followed it at all. The only news I've heard on it are snippets I've happened to hear or this thread. And it was worth reading this thread just to get to this quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I am not anti-guns but I am anti-bullshit.

[IrishLake]

Verdict is in, and it's bullshit. I thought they could find him guilty for a lesser charge? Manslaughter???

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by IrishLake

Verdict is in, and it's bullshit. I thought they could find him guilty for a lesser charge? Manslaughter???

It's Florida, anything seems to go there. After Casey Anthony walked last year nothing out of that states legal system will surprise me.

[WCsweet<3]

I'm trying really hard to remember that there may have been evidence introduced in the court case that we didn't know about.

[yellowrose890]

In my honest (and possibly unwelcome opinion), the prosecution did not do the best job it could have done. From some of the things I read about the case, they were not doing the best job of proving Zimmerman's guilt.....

[misscherrypie]

Originally Posted by yellowrose890

In my honest (and possibly unwelcome opinion), the prosecution did not do the best job it could have done. From some of the things I read about the case, they were not doing the best job of proving Zimmerman's guilt.....

Ditto

ETA: I do not agree with the verdict.

[TonyB06]

Absolutely stunned.

[IrishLake]

Originally Posted by yellowrose890

In my honest (and possibly unwelcome opinion), the prosecution did not do the best job it could have done. From some of the things I read about the case, they were not doing the best job of proving Zimmerman's guilt.....

This was the feeling I also had. Casey Anthony all over again. "Guilty" but the prosecution couldn't prove it.

[moe.ron]

Can he be sued like OJ Simpson? I would sue for everything he owned plus futures earning from what he would earn from this.

[yellowrose890]

I'm assuming the Martin family will file a civil suit...

[LaneSig]

I feel like one of the most naïve people in the U.S. I thought Zimmerman would at least get manslaughter.

[ASTalumna06]

I'm not surprised.