I Am Not a Costume! - Page 5

ElieM · #1 10-30-2011, 08:45 PM

For not sexy costumes - http://takebackhalloween.org/

amIblue? · #2 10-30-2011, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElieM

For not sexy costumes - http://takebackhalloween.org/

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that I'm going to be sticking with my long sleeved t-shirt, jeans, and a fleece tomorrow night as I drag my daughter from house to house.

Pretty cool idea, though.

Tulip86 · #3 10-30-2011, 09:02 PM

Seems like there's going to be a halloween party after all! I'm going back and forth between Padme Amidala (in the regal dress with white/red make up) and C3PO, my guy would make an awesome Chewbacca

amIblue? · #4 10-30-2011, 09:18 PM

well, maybe you could be daring and wear the see through tomorrow?

DrPhil · #5 10-30-2011, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amIblue?

well, maybe you could be daring and wear the see through tomorrow?

Some people would be absolutely thrilled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElieM

Is it see-through?

The larger image on the website looked see-through around the thighs but I could be mistaken.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElieM

Question: Is blackface ever appropriate in other countries? (I'm thinking like in the Netherlands with Zwarte Piet who brings the presents instead of Sinterklaas)

Based on what I read on wikipedia:

Zwarte Piet is a mischievous, enslaved devil (is that correct?) who assists Saint Nicholas and has been portrayed as someone of the African Diaspora since the 1800s. The history and modern day prevalence of that depiction is no different than if that was done in the United States of America.

Yeah, this blackface is just another caricature of the African Diaspora in an environment where people of the African Diaspora are the population size and power minority.

ETA:
http://www.thefastertimes.com/photol...mas-tradition/

http://www.expatica.com/nl/leisure/a...2394_9285.html

ElieM · #6 10-30-2011, 09:23 PM

Is it see-through?

Question: Is blackface ever appropriate in other countries? (I'm thinking like in the Netherlands with Zwarte Piet who brings the presents instead of Sinterklaas)

ElieM · #7 10-30-2011, 09:52 PM

I was under the impression that he was a Spanish Moor who came with Saint Nicholas (sometimes as a slave/ sometimes as a servant or freed slave who chose to serve St Nicholas - take your pick)

DrPhil · #8 10-30-2011, 10:01 PM

I find it problematic to depict someone of the African Diaspora as a servant or freed slave who "chose to serve" (LOL) anyone. You have Europeans running around in blackface and, as with many people in the United States of America, many of these Europeans have no real interactions with people of the African Diaspora. Zwarte Piet is all there is.

SWTXBelle · #9 10-30-2011, 10:23 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYdpt...eature=related

Tulip86 · #10 10-31-2011, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I find it problematic to depict someone of the African Diaspora as a servant or freed slave who "chose to serve" (LOL) anyone. You have Europeans running around in blackface and, as with many people in the United States of America, many of these Europeans have no real interactions with people of the African Diaspora. Zwarte Piet is all there is.

I take it you've lived in The Netherlands and are well versed in the culture since you make a statement about how things are here?

As I currently live in The Netherlands I thought I'd chime in on the issue.

All children in the Netherlands(of the age that don't believe in "Santa" anymore) are encouraged to join in the debate on how Zwarte Piet isn't appropriate. (and it isn't appropriate, and they know)

There have been many, many debates on how to handle the situation, but they can't just abolish this custom overnight since Zwarte Piet is more popular among the kids than Sinterklaas. The government is taking steps though to eliminate the custom, but they can't just change this overnight. There is a task force (consisting op people from all cultures represented in the country) working on this issue.

Zwarte Piet was decades ago depicted as a lazy and mean but as the Netherlands became more integrated and the old colonial stereotypes were eradicated he became the good spirited and intelligent character he is now.

Is it wrong that white men are walking around in blackface and red lips to depict a man of (west) African heritage? Yes, that is so wrong. But there is awareness here, and it isn't done to insult and make fun of a culture.

For future reference, please don't refer to ONE culture in Europe as "Europeans" because European means anyone and everyone from Norway to Spain, and Ireland to the Ukraine and Turkey. That's people in all colors/shapes and sizes.

DrPhil · #11 10-31-2011, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tulip86

I take it you've lived in The Netherlands and are well versed in the culture since you make a statement about how things are here?

It is wonderful that you are excited that you actually live in The Netherlands or something....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tulip86

All children in the Netherlands(of the age that don't believe in "Santa" anymore) are encouraged to join in the debate on how Zwarte Piet isn't appropriate. (and it isn't appropriate, and they know)

There have been many, many debates on how to handle the situation, but they can't just abolish this custom overnight since Zwarte Piet is more popular among the kids than Sinterklaas. The government is taking steps though to eliminate the custom, but they can't just change this overnight. There is a task force (consisting op people from all cultures represented in the country) working on this issue.

Zwarte Piet was decades ago depicted as a lazy and mean but as the Netherlands became more integrated and the old colonial stereotypes were eradicated he became the good spirited and intelligent character he is now.

Is it wrong that white men are walking around in blackface and red lips to depict a man of (west) African heritage? Yes, that is so wrong. But there is awareness here, and it isn't done to insult and make fun of a culture.

...but nothing, I mean nothing, you said in this post refuted anything I said.

It is fine if you wanted to give us an update but do not confuse that with refuting what I said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tulip86

For future reference, please don't refer to ONE culture in Europe as "Europeans" because European means anyone and everyone from Norway to Spain, and Ireland to the Ukraine and Turkey. That's people in all colors/shapes and sizes.

You noticed that too? I also noticed that and did not even need to live in Europe to make a statement about how things are there.

This subtopic is not only about The Netherlands and Zwarte Piet's impact is not exclusive to The Netherlands. That is considered part of European folklore.

As an aside, I had forgotten about the book Black People in European Folklore: Golliwog, Zwarte Piet, Black Arab (2010) and I think I will see if I can find a copy somewhere.

AlphaFrog · #12 10-31-2011, 09:34 AM

^^^Does it mention Monastatos from Die Zaüberflote (The Magic Flute)? He is a Moor and pretty much has a line about Pamina hatin' on him because he's black. When we did the opera in college, the actor was white, so they made him Zebra-striped rather than black face and changed the line to match. I couldn't say whether that is standard practice, however there are probably multiple common solutions due to a severe shortage of males in general and black males in spesific in opera companies.

christiangirl · #13 10-30-2011, 10:28 PM

Much has happened in this thread since I last stopped by.

I'll throw out some randoms:

*I found out that the people wearing the 3 most "offensive" costumes (a suicide bomber, President Obama, and Osama Bin Laden) at that party Friday were all people with whom I attended high school. IDT anyone was personally offended by them but the whole atmosphere of the party changed when they walked in. People got uncomfortable.

*I saw no whiteface at all this Halloween but a huge surge in blackface costumes. While neither is "okay," this is funny give which one has been deemed "offensive" and which one many have said they would not be offended by.

*Wearing a short skirt or a low-cut top/body suit does not (alone) make a woman a slut. I don't think it's the best choice in clothing but hey some women like showing their sexual side or showing off parts of their body of which they are proud. I'm beginning to wonder if calling them slutty for that is part of the reason many women are comfortable doing that only on a day when they aren't supposed to be themselves.

/hijack

southernbelle14 · #14 10-30-2011, 10:41 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPPsf-Mi8FY

Munchkin03 · #15 10-31-2011, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christiangirl

*Wearing a short skirt or a low-cut top/body suit does not (alone) make a woman a slut. I don't think it's the best choice in clothing but hey some women like showing their sexual side or showing off parts of their body of which they are proud. I'm beginning to wonder if calling them slutty for that is part of the reason many women are comfortable doing that only on a day when they aren't supposed to be themselves.

I just wish that wasn't the ONLY choice out there. I tend to have to work really hard to find something that's not slut-o-rama...even something as simple as "Greek Goddess" sometimes only has short costumes at the stores. I end up making my costumes or having them made because I just don't like dressing up like that.

But, then again, I might be the only person who really doesn't like Halloween for adults. If it's not for kids or charities, I could care less, LOL. I attended a charity Halloween party last weekend and that, along with passing out candy tonight, will be the extent of my celebrations