Occupy Wall Street

[AGDee]

I think you're off on the demographics of the people protesting. There are doctors and nurses volunteering in the medical tent at Occupy Detroit. They are providing medical care with donated supplies to ANYBODY who stops in there. They provided food to all of the homeless who came to eat and tent space to those who wanted it. There are small business owners donating vast amounts of food, a warehouse and other supplies. The rallies have people in business suits coming right from work, old and young.. The church leaders in the city are supportive and allowing safe parking in their parking lots. Some of Detroit's City Council have been at protests as have the Fire Department and off duty Police. These are not all college students or young recent grads who haven't found work. They are not all unemployed. I discussed the demographics of people at the rally in Chicago that I witnessed way back in this thread. I admit, some of my perspective is limited because most of my knowledge comes from Occupy Detroit, but I've seen positive actions in other Occupy cities too. In Washington, DC, they have taken over a building that is a closed homeless shelter and are working to get it in good condition again and demanding that it be re-opened because it is needed.

The only time Detroit ever rounded up homeless people and took them anywhere was two weeks before we hosted the Super Bowl. They have tent cities and those don't get closed down.

One Occupy (I think it is Portland) was using the restrooms in the park where they had set up camp until the city shut the water off. They were also cleaning those restrooms. Then they had porta potties donated. They weren't leaving human waste anywhere, yet they got evicted from camp. The police told them they had to leave and they started packing up their belongings, peacefully. They were taking things to their cars and then not allowed back in to get the rest. Their stuff was destroyed.

I've yet to see a politician who wasn't taking PAC money for their campaign or influenced by lobbyists. Sure, we get to vote, but, above the city level, all candidates are essentially chosen by the political party and pushed and supported by the parties. I remember when McCain won the Republican primary in Michigan over Bush in 2000. The Republican party was mad, really mad and flooded the media with statements about Democrats poisoned the primary by voting for McCain. It was infuriating, as a usual Democrat who was one of those who vote for McCain, not to *poison* the vote, but because McCain, at that time, was a Republican I felt I could support.

On top of that, several states have taken away the right to vote for their local officials in the form of emergency managers who can fire all the officials that the local people elected. I'm mad as hell about that.

Protests and movements of this type have effected change. The Tea Party has DEFINITELY effected change and they started out as a protest movement like this. The women burning their bras in the early 70s while trying to get the ERA passed (and I am STILL angry that women don't have an amendment declaring us equal to men), did effect change. The Civil Rights movement did effect change. None of these changes happened over night. We still have a long way to go in some of these areas, but those movements started us heading in the right direction.

I am sorry that you are offended, as a veteran, at my statement that we are powerless. I think that if I were a veteran, I'd be angry at the structure that has taken away our power rather than the statement that it has happened.

I do agree that the Occupy movement should be more careful about their direct actions. Like I said, blocking subways (which is an action that requires police intervention) is not a useful tactic. However, in other cases, there was no reason for a city to use the kind of police resources that they used. When Bank of America announced the $5 debit card fee, and they protested that and encouraged people to move to other banks, BoA decided to renounce that fee. It's a small example of change, but it is happening.

Our news media is covering Occupy every day.

As someone who has been fighting for success every day, I disagree that if you fight hard enough, it will come. Some would define me as successful and in some ways, I am. "They" said that my generation would be the first to not do as well or better than our parents and I'm feeling that now. As I prepare to do my daughter's FAFSA forms, it has hit me that I make less money now, in 2011 than my dad did in 1983 when we did MY financial aid forms. My tuition was $45 a credit hour. The tuition at the same school now is $246 a credit hour but I make LESS money than my dad did at this stage of life, with more education, more qualifications, a solid work history and consistently superior performance evaluations at every job I've had.

All of the things that were available and promised in the 80s when I started my first career job are gone- pensions, health insurance after retirement, and probably social security and medicare (which I've paid into my whole life but will likely not get anything back), company loyalty (because I can't tell you how many people I see get laid off just before they can retire so that what few bennies are out there don't have to be paid). I've had 5 different pension funds go away because the business went bankrupt. I've worked damn hard, continually upgraded my skills, gotten certifications and degrees and for what? To realize that I am powerless because our system is broken.

I've had to make financial decisions that were tough. I choose to live in a very modest ranch house with no garage. I choose to not get things like my carpet replaced, despite its poor condition because I want to give my kids experiences. I made a conscious decision a few years ago that giving them life experiences, such as People to People trips, Boy Scout camp trips, special pre-college programs, is more important than whether our carpet is worn or our furniture has holes in the upholstery. I am determined to help them with college as much as humanly possible so that they don't graduate in a heap of massive debt. But I'm in a very weird income bracket... one where I qualify for little, but can't afford much. I am solidly middle class. I have never lived extravagantly. I don't own designer stuff. In my 46 years, I've had 3 new cars. I don't need that stuff. But, I'm tired of financing corporate exec bonuses, and this movement has made me more aware.

So, I haven't actually participated in an Occupy rally here in Detroit. But I'm making changes. I'm supporting local businesses. I'm supporting mom and pop restaurants and stores as much as I can. I'm moving away from box stores and chains. I'm refusing to use credit, except for work travel (because that gets paid off before interest is paid), to avoid giving banks more money so I can keep it for myself. I am contemplating moving my banking to a credit union, although my bank, PNC, has not been as bad as some of the others so I haven't done that yet. These are actions that the Occupy movement are encouraging.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by AGDee

So, I haven't actually participated in an Occupy rally here in Detroit. But I'm making changes. I'm supporting local businesses. I'm supporting mom and pop restaurants and stores as much as I can. I'm moving away from box stores and chains. I'm refusing to use credit, except for work travel (because that gets paid off before interest is paid), to avoid giving banks more money so I can keep it for myself. I am contemplating moving my banking to a credit union, although my bank, PNC, has not been as bad as some of the others so I haven't done that yet. These are actions that the Occupy movement are encouraging.

I like this.

[carnation]

Yep.

But I do feel like I'm back in the sixties again.

[AOII Angel]

I completely agree with you, Dee. It also makes me sad when people who THINK they are middle class support the status quo saying things like, "I have three jobs to make ends meet; they just need to stop protesting a get a job." Seriously, they think it's reasonable to have to get three jobs to make a living wage. That is a problem.

[littleowl33]

Occupy Baltimore "mic checked" Karl Rove at a symposium speech on my undergraduate campus this week (article and video):

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/201...-youtube-video

Like the majority of my friends at Hopkins I'm no fan of Karl's, but everyone I've talked to there has been pissed about it. A big complaint is that the Occupiers planted in the audience were not Hopkins students, but they felt justified in disrupting the entire event for everyone.

The Milton S. Eisenhower symposium is a year-long speaker series run by Hopkins students and funded by the university, and though it is primarily for Hopkins students, faculty and staff, it is free and open to the public in an effort to give back to the Baltimore community. They've had some pretty controversial speakers in the past (and the protestors that come with) but no one has ever actually tried to derail the speaker like this, as far as I know.

In the Youtube video you can hear booing in the background from the other attendees at the Occupiers. Most of the people I know who were there don't agree with Karl Rove's politics, but they wanted to hear what he had to say. IMHO the protestors' actions were in very poor taste.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by AGDee

One Occupy (I think it is Portland) was using the restrooms in the park where they had set up camp until the city shut the water off. They were also cleaning those restrooms. Then they had porta potties donated. They weren't leaving human waste anywhere, yet they got evicted from camp. The police told them they had to leave and they started packing up their belongings, peacefully. They were taking things to their cars and then not allowed back in to get the rest. Their stuff was destroyed.

Occupy Portland was a mess Dee. Rat infestations, lice outbreaks, herion dens (tents) popping up. It's a public safety concern. The police and city officials are in a difficult situation because can't stand back and let this continue due to health and safety reasons, but if they evict these people from parks, busses, etc there is conflict. It is what it is.

Count me in with the 99% who is annoyed and feels these people are actually the .099% and they do not represent me.

[DrPhil]

Generally speaking, I am both annoyed and amused. I am all for their right to speak out and protest--within reason. As with every movement and everything, there is the good with the bad. There is the necessary with the unnecessary. There is the much-needed-voices-for-change with the batshit-crazy-sitchoassdownsomewhere.

And let us not forget that the social movement is not the end goal. The end goal should be (insert whatever end goal(s) the majority of the Occupiers claim to have). The end goal will not be attained quickly so I hope the Occupiers do not intend to sleep on the street until there is this absolute and visible change.

Last but definitely not least, it never fails that when certain groups of people (read: predominantly white people who are working class and middle class and find once in a while opportunities to express their relative deprivation) feel oppressed or exercise their voice of oppression, these certain groups want the world to stop. Don't kid yourself, the world has not stopped as much as people want to believe--the 1% is not shitting its pants as heavily as people would like to pretend they are. These certain groups want to pretend that they are the first group of people (read: most important group of people) to really experience what they are experiencing and the first to cry out so strongly in an attempt to be a voice for change. "We are Occupying and if you don't drink what we're pouring then YOU are part of the problem. What are YOU doing for change?!" Uh...the same thing that those of us who are involved in the community and with different power minority groups have been doing for years. Where have YOU been...oh yeah, you just realized that your shit also stinks and want to sit in the "Oppressed Chair."

Have your seat in the "Oppressed Chair" until most of you decide to get back into the “(for some, conditionally) Privileged Chair." Either way, don't take opportunities from the other 99% while you're busy protesting.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Generally speaking, I am both annoyed and amused. I am all for their right to speak out and protest--within reason. As with every movement and everything, there is the good with the bad. There is the necessary with the unnecessary. There is the much-needed-voices-for-change with the batshit-crazy-sitchoassdownsomewhere.

And let us not forget that the social movement is not the end goal. The end goal should be (insert whatever end goal(s) the majority of the Occupiers claim to have). The end goal will not be attained quickly so I hope the Occupiers do not intend to sleep on the street until there is this absolute and visible change.

Last but definitely not least, it never fails that when certain groups of people (read: predominantly white people who are working class and middle class and find once in a while opportunities to express their relative deprivation) feel oppressed or exercise their voice of oppression, these certain groups want the world to stop. Don't kid yourself, the world has not stopped as much as people want to believe--the 1% is not shitting its pants as heavily as people would like to pretend they are. These certain groups want to pretend that they are the first group of people (read: most important group of people) to really experience what they are experiencing and the first to cry out so strongly in an attempt to be a voice for change. "We are Occupying and if you don't drink what we're pouring then YOU are part of the problem. What are YOU doing for change?!" Uh...the same thing that those of us who are involved in the community and with different power minority groups have been doing for years. Where have YOU been...oh yeah, you just realized that your shit also stinks and want to sit in the "Oppressed Chair."

Have your seat in the "Oppressed Chair" until most of you decide to get back into the “(for some, conditionally) Privileged Chair." Either way, don't take opportunities from the other 99% while you're busy protesting.

*LIKE!*

[*winter*]

I so want to respond properly, but I'm just too tired (this week is insane.) So for now, I'm going with, "Yeah...^^^^...that. What they said."

[AGDee]

Occupy Detroit has packed up and are occupying a warehouse (that was donated to them) and looking for other space. They are still having general assemblies twice a week and planning direct actions, including a mic check at a mall on Black Friday and some protests at Walmart on Black Friday. Today, the Detroit Police Chief praised them.. front page article in the Detroit Free Press today:

http://www.freep.com/article/2011112...xt|FRONTPAGE|s

[DrPhil]

I watched the "eviction" of the Occupy DC on CNN last weekend. I found it to be amusing and annoying on the part of the Occupiers.

Occupy NY:

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...ng-occupy-camp

Can someone remind me of what the purpose of this Occupy movement is?

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Can someone remind me of what the purpose of this Occupy movement is?

No one knows