Women who start out at community college

[voLTAgeDEuce]

I am swerving a bit here, but I agree with the OP that Greek Life is not completely out of the question for transfers. Although I am not a NPC, I am a transfer and I went to CC for my 1st year.

As far as the CC program, they also have this in FL. The idea is that if a student completes their A.A. with some said requirements at a CC that they will be accepted to any of the public universities in that state. Not all degrees qualify for this, but a large portion do. The concept behind this is that it is cheaper to do the first 2 years at a CC and the last 2 at a U than it is to do 4 years at a U. Also, it encourages students to transfer after getting their A.A. and continue their education. People go to CC for many different reasons and I hardly think it defines them as a person or student. If they want to learn, educate themselves, and be involved, they will, if they want to slide on by and skate, they will.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

So sororities should be exclusively for the privileged?

Originally Posted by DaffyKD

You sure seem to make a lot of presumptions as to why someone would go to a community college.

This:

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Well...
...she brought it up in a specific context.

How many Sorority Recruitment threads say "Sororities are expensive. If you can't afford dues, it may not be in your best interest to go through recruitment only to deactivate a semester later because of finances"?

Especially since the OP was about this:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

With the rising costs of college, I'm hearing the "start at a CC" advice being passed around more and more often.

IF you start at CC to save money, sorority membership at one of those schools where upperclassmen have trouble getting bids may not be in your finances. YMMV.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by DaffyKD

You sure seem to make a lot of presumptions as to why someone would go to a community college.

Well...

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

If you go to a CC to save money, ...

...she brought it up in a specific context.

How many Sorority Recruitment threads say "Sororities are expensive. If you can't afford dues, it may not be in your best interest to go through recruitment only to deactivate a semester later because of finances"?

[KSUViolet06]

It really depends on the school, too.

Honestly, I think the "kiss Greek Life goodbye if you didn't think to do it during freshman/soph year" thing isn't true for as many schools as people are saying.

When you really think about it, aren't those "must rush during freshman year" schools in the minority?

I mean, looking at my state, there's probably one school where you might have a hard time as a non-freshman or soph.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

It really depends on the school, too.

Honestly, I think the "kiss Greek Life goodbye if you didn't think to do it during freshman/soph year" thing isn't true for as many schools as people are saying.

When you really think about it, aren't those "must rush during freshman year" schools in the minority?

I mean, looking at my state, there's probably one school where you might have a hard time as a non-freshman or soph.

I agree, I just think that some people have the idea that these are the only schools that count.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

It really depends on the school, too.

Honestly, I think the "kiss Greek Life goodbye if you didn't think to do it during freshman/soph year" thing isn't true for as many schools as people are saying.

When you really think about it, aren't those "must rush during freshman year" schools in the minority?

I mean, looking at my state, there's probably one school where you might have a hard time as a non-freshman or soph.

I don't really know, and obviously nobody wants to talk MS, here...it just seems like we get a lot of threads on here about women wanting to rush as upperclassmen, and the advice they get is always the same: it will be tough, be willing to take a bid from a less-popular group, etc.

It could be that we only get threads from a self-selecting group of women going to tough-on-junior schools because they come to GC looking for an answer different from the one they got in real life.

[AGDee]

The reality is, the highest quality collegiate sorority experience is dependent on more than one year, and probably more than two years of time in a collegiate chapter. Yes, there is the advantage for the chapter to have longer retention, but it is also better for the member. From a financial perspective, the first term is really expensive for the new member. From new member fees to dues to an Initiation fee, it's a hard hit. Costs go down considerably after that first term so if you simply look at the Return on Investment for the new member, financially, if that first term's costs get you 8 semesters of collegiate experience versus 2 semesters, you're getting a better deal.

During the new member period, it's a big learning curve. You're getting to know the women in the chapter, learning the history, etc. You aren't eligible to run for an office yet. Ideally, leadership begins at a committee level and grows into a coordinator or chairman position and then into an Executive Board/Council role. Being in a chapter for only a year or two robs you of those leadership opportunities. Of course there are anecdotal experiences that will contradict that statement, but the reality is, leadership is generally developed, not an inherent gift. When you're in the chapter only a year or two, it could be difficult to get the chance to live-in when there is a house. When you're only in the chapter for a year or two, it could be difficult to be a big sister/sister-mother. Your own experience as a Junior/Senior new member is lessened by simply not being around for as long. You won't master recruitment skills or get the same feeling of tradition and you'll be gone in the blink of an eye. You won't get the same number or level of personal development programs either.

There are a lot of disadvantages for the chapter itself too, but I decided, this time, to focus on the disadvantages for the new member. You simply cannot get the full collegiate experience in that short of a time period. When I see the "rushing as a senior" threads, my first thought is always "Why?"

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AGDee

The reality is, the highest quality collegiate sorority experience is dependent on more than one year, and probably more than two years of time in a collegiate chapter. Yes, there is the advantage for the chapter to have longer retention, but it is also better for the member. From a financial perspective, the first term is really expensive for the new member. From new member fees to dues to an Initiation fee, it's a hard hit. Costs go down considerably after that first term so if you simply look at the Return on Investment for the new member, financially, if that first term's costs get you 8 semesters of collegiate experience versus 2 semesters, you're getting a better deal.

During the new member period, it's a big learning curve. You're getting to know the women in the chapter, learning the history, etc. You aren't eligible to run for an office yet. Ideally, leadership begins at a committee level and grows into a coordinator or chairman position and then into an Executive Board/Council role. Being in a chapter for only a year or two robs you of those leadership opportunities. Of course there are anecdotal experiences that will contradict that statement, but the reality is, leadership is generally developed, not an inherent gift. When you're in the chapter only a year or two, it could be difficult to get the chance to live-in when there is a house. When you're only in the chapter for a year or two, it could be difficult to be a big sister/sister-mother. Your own experience as a Junior/Senior new member is lessened by simply not being around for as long. You won't master recruitment skills or get the same feeling of tradition and you'll be gone in the blink of an eye. You won't get the same number or level of personal development programs either.

There are a lot of disadvantages for the chapter itself too, but I decided, this time, to focus on the disadvantages for the new member. You simply cannot get the full collegiate experience in that short of a time period. When I see the "rushing as a senior" threads, my first thought is always "Why?"

I disagree with this entire post.

Juniors who join may have gotten a bid BECAUSE of their leadership roles in other campus activities. There's no reason those skills can't transfer to sorority roles as well. Not to mention the women (of all class levels) that they've met through those activities who may also become sisters.

As far as learning history...chapters still do that?? (Snarky and sarcastic...but not really. Look at NM programs nowadays.)

The "older" pledges I've known often graduate with nothing but love in their hearts for the sorority and nothing but good to say about the experience. To contrast, the girls who've been involved since freshman year are the ones usually saying "I can't wait to get the eff out of here." Varies between both these groups, of course. It also depends a lot on chapter size. If you're in a chapter under 80 or so, you probably will have enough roles in 2 years that you'll feel sated. By contrast, a woman in a chapter of 200 can stay active for 4 years and never do anything other than nominally serve on A committee. I don't see where that experience is more "fulfilling."

[als463]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I disagree with this entire post.

Juniors who join may have gotten a bid BECAUSE of their leadership roles in other campus activities. There's no reason those skills can't transfer to sorority roles as well. Not to mention the women (of all class levels) that they've met through those activities who may also become sisters.

As far as learning history...chapters still do that?? (Snarky and sarcastic...but not really. Look at NM programs nowadays.)

The "older" pledges I've known often graduate with nothing but love in their hearts for the sorority and nothing but good to say about the experience. To contrast, the girls who've been involved since freshman year are the ones usually saying "I can't wait to get the eff out of here." Varies between both these groups, of course. It also depends a lot on chapter size. If you're in a chapter under 80 or so, you probably will have enough roles in 2 years that you'll feel sated. By contrast, a woman in a chapter of 200 can stay active for 4 years and never do anything other than nominally serve on A committee. I don't see where that experience is more "fulfilling."

I couldn't have said it better myself. I joined when I was "junior" standing due to doubling up on courses and graduating with my A.A. from Penn State before finishing on with my B.A. In fact, I was in school for my B.A. but, just happened to "pick up" my A.A. because of all the classes I chose. I was an older student who was busy with my military commitment before even joining a sorority.

Guess what: I served as Membership Director and as Risk Management Chair (at a school where Greek Life can be pretty important). I graduated and, every year since I've graduated, I've held various Alumnae Chapter positions to include Secretary, Vice President, and Treasurer. I've been to two conventions as a voting delegate and I'm preparing for my 3rd one, next summer. By then, I just may be President of my Alumnae Chapter.

I am very involved. In fact, this coming week, I will be heading South to attend an officer training for my sorority. I'm very excited about that! I have also written recommendations for interested PNMs. I recently received a foundation scholarship from my sorority, as well. All-and-all, I am very happy with my experience. I bleed pink and white and couldn't imagine NOT being a member of a sorority.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I disagree with this entire post.


As far as learning history...chapters still do that?? (Snarky and sarcastic...but not really. Look at NM programs nowadays.)

I see your points. My frame of reference for my own collegiate chapter was a very small chapter, less than 45 women. As to the part I quoted, our new programming spreads out the learning over the entire collegiate experience with separate programming for new members, middle members and seniors. So you'd definitely miss out on some things if you weren't in at least 3 years.

Re: als' post, (didn't quote, sorry): I'm referring to only the collegiate experience, not the alumnae experience. The collegiate experience is very short in comparison so losing time from that experience is more significant, in my view. I'm one of the more "pro AI" people on here so I see a lot of value in the alumnae years of membership but the collegiate years are so very different than the alumnae years.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Re: als' post, (didn't quote, sorry): I'm referring to only the collegiate experience, not the alumnae experience. The collegiate experience is very short in comparison so losing time from that experience is more significant, in my view. I'm one of the more "pro AI" people on here so I see a lot of value in the alumnae years of membership but the collegiate years are so very different than the alumnae years.

I guess this is the crux of it. We can say a billion times that "membership is for life", but the emphasis will always be on those four(ish) years as an undergraduate.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I guess this is the crux of it. We can say a billion times that "membership is for life", but the emphasis will always be on those four(ish) years as an undergraduate.

Because ultimately for NPC groups the college experience is not comparable to the alumnae experience. They're incredibly different even at the most active alumnae chapters.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AGDee

As to the part I quoted, our new programming spreads out the learning over the entire collegiate experience with separate programming for new members, middle members and seniors. So you'd definitely miss out on some things if you weren't in at least 3 years.

Ours does the same. That's part of the reason I'm not too jazzed about it - especially since we have chapters at MANY schools where late-in-life (lol) pledges are commonplace. It doesn't make sense to me - it's like whoever wrote the program was being aspirational rather than realistic. I know I've also stated on here that the whole "making it easier for seniors to stay involved and so slightly lessening their responsibilities" and "programming that makes the seniors feel like they should just GTFO" is a very, very fine line to walk.

[Gusteau]

Just an observation of this discussion...

The problem with GC is that we make too many broad generalizations. What works at one school/council/organization/whatever seldom works for another school/council/organization/whatever. Logically we understand this, but we never seem to practice it, or acknowledge that someone can only speak from their experience and that doesn't make it wrong, it just makes it different.

Just sayin'/back to my lane

[AXOmom]

I agree (at least in part) with what the posters above me are saying (33girl, als, Gusteau) - so much of a girl's experience joining a sorority as an upperclassmen would depend on the girl (outgoing or shy), the school (traditional or non-traditional student body), the chapter (large or small/housed or unhoused), and the pledge class (all freshman save the one upperclassmen or decent mix). It isn't safe to make generalizations about how that girl will feel about her experience.

Having said that, in defense of AGDee, I didn't get the impression she was saying that a girl who joined as an upperclassmen wouldn't enjoy their experience or love their sorority - just that they wouldn't have quite the same experience or rather as much of that experience as a freshman, so they COULD come away feeling disappointed.

I don't think this means they shouldn't rush - just that they should know that depending on all the factors mentioned, there are things they MIGHT miss out on that a typical freshman wouldn't, and they need to be aware of that or they may find themselves frustrated.

As Gusteau pointed out, we can only go from our own experience, and I can only go from my daughter's. From her perspective, I understand completely what AGDee is saying. She loves her sorority and she loves her sisters (most of the time), but when she joined she was a second quarter sophomore by credits and a junior by age. When she finishes school, she will have been there 2 1/2 years.

She's been involved and she's held a leadership position. She's made good friends. She plans on staying involved with her sorority after college. But does she feel like she would have had a more complete experience had she joined as a freshman? Yes.

She knows that there are things she missed and will miss out on. She's getting to live in next year, but it will only be for 2 quarters and last year she didn't think she would get to live in ever. She regrets not getting to live in a full year, and she would have regretted it more had she not gotten to live in at all.

As I said, she's made good friends, but she didn't find them immediately, and she would like to have another year and a half to spend with them to really solidify those friendships.

She loved her leadership position this year, but there are several others she would like to have tried in addition to it (she would like to have run for a position on Panhellenic), and there just won't be time to do that.

And yes, there were times (not many, but some) when she felt like she was paying a lot of dues for some significant experiences she would never have (living in primarily).

Again, she loves her sorority, but she does wish she had more time with it. Granted, maybe she would have ended up like one of the freshman 33girl mentions - chomping at the bit to get out and get away from everyone, but it doesn't feel that way to her right now.

She had a really good experience - a lot of great things came out of it for her, but it hasn't been quite the same experience it would have been if she had started out as a freshman.