COBing fresh when upperclass quota isn't met

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by agzg

Also, I doubt they've seen The Land Before Time, either.

This is so depressing.

I bet they would know N'Sync in the same way we knew NKOTB.

My kids even saw The Land Before Time and they are still in high school.

[AZTheta]

"Step By Step", somehow, we'll meet up because "I Want It That Way."

[DrPhil]

Dorks. The twos a ya.

[AZTheta]

^^^ you're invited, you know. Always.

[DrPhil]

Dorks. The threes a us.

[agzg]

I always thought in my heart of hearts you would be a BSB or NKOTB fan, DrPhil.

I'm going to try to give this effort "All I have to give."

[AZTheta]

Idk, agzg...thinking about DrPhil's music knowledge (from past convos), I'm suspecting she's likin' BoyzIIMen but just too shy to say so, publicly. So I'm encouraging you, DrPhil...come on out, it's okay, you're among friends here.

[agzg]

Oh I already know she loves BoyzIIMen.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Anchored4Ever

* Having an upperclassman quota increases chapter total...and there are not 2 pools for total (one freshman and one upperclassman). So, we either need to do 2 totals per chapter or just lump everyone into the same pile during formal recruitment. Because, what's happening now is really negating the stated purpose of using an upperclassman quota during formal recruitment. If they're counted in the chapter numbers which are used to decide total each year, then they're not "Freebies." The only way they'd be freebies is if they didn't count in the number which is referred to as "chapter total."

Why does upperclassman quota increase total? How are you setting your chapter total?

It sounds as though the issue may be that chapter total is too high. If formal recruitment is putting chapters exactly at total, you could drop it a bit, and it would resolve this issue.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Anchored4Ever

Here's the thing...

* XX chaper does not meet upperclassman quota during formal recruitment, but probably would have if they had brought back the recommended amount of upperclassmen women to pref...instead of over-releasing.

* The number decided upon for total does not designate that a certain number must be upperclassmen or underclassmen...they're all considered the same in that pool. So, if XX chapter had pledged their max upperclassmen, they'd have been exactly at total and unable to COB. But, since they purposefully over-released, they're not at total.

* If this continues, then chapters will begin to 'opt out' of taking their quota of upperclassmen so that they can just go pick up more freshmen (who will be around for 4 yrs) immediately after fall recruitment is over. That's not fair or keeping with the stated intention of upperclassman quota in the first place.

* Having an upperclassman quota increases chapter total...and there are not 2 pools for total (one freshman and one upperclassman). So, we either need to do 2 totals per chapter or just lump everyone into the same pile during formal recruitment. Because, what's happening now is really negating the stated purpose of using an upperclassman quota during formal recruitment. If they're counted in the chapter numbers which are used to decide total each year, then they're not "Freebies." The only way they'd be freebies is if they didn't count in the number which is referred to as "chapter total."

Hope maybe I explained it better that time?

It sounds like total may be a little high for campus then, or that this chapter is a bit low over all. Are most chapters under total after reaching quota?

Drop total by Y and you negate this.


ETA: Dammit, just a bit slow. But that confirms what I was thinking.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Anchored4Ever

Seems to me that if the entire chapter is going to be used to determine chapter total, then the entire pool of PNMs should "compete" against one another during recruitment. Either that or there should be 2 chapter totals...one for underclassmen & 1 for upperclassmen. Because, the way it is now, those 2 groups are separated for the purposes of recruitment and then lumped back in together to determine chapter total.

That's just not right. Can't have it both ways.

You are over-thinking this. If taking underclassman quota puts a chapter over total, they can't bid more people. They either take upperclassmen during rush, or lose those spots. Total should be set so that the regular quota puts most chapters over total.

If there is only one chapter under total, and they chose not to take upperclassmen, and then COBed to total, that is perfectly allowed, and up to that chapter, not up to the rest of the CPH.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Anchored4Ever

Seems to me that if the entire chapter is going to be used to determine chapter total, then the entire pool of PNMs should "compete" against one another during recruitment. Either that or there should be 2 chapter totals...one for underclassmen & 1 for upperclassmen. Because, the way it is now, those 2 groups are separated for the purposes of recruitment and then lumped back in together to determine chapter total.

That's just not right. Can't have it both ways.

Except that upperclassmen generally make up 35-50% of a chapter (assuming juniors and seniors) and something like 1-10% of quota. You're comparing two very different things. Either this one chapter is below total and trying to 'take advantage' of it (and really they're not helping themselves all that much in the long run) or total is too high for the campus.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Anchored4Ever

The problem is 2 fold:

1. Under the old system (before (U) quota was initiated 3 yrs ago, the vast majority of (U) women went to only 2 (out of 7 total) chapters. Those 2 chapters had trouble making quota yearly and were hardly ever at total. Their pledge classes were usually at least 1/2 juniors, and so every other year or so 1/2 of their chapter would graduate at the same time.

2. Under the old system, unless the (U) women going through were totally AMAZING, they didn't stand a shot at getting a good bid, and many wound up dropping out around day 2/3. Now, under the new system, many more (U) women stay in through the entire process and are more evently distributed throughout all chapters.

Because of the recently instituted (U) quota, chapters are getting larger, more women are 'going Greek,' and we're able to have more impact on our campus & community. But, there are just issues that come along with growing...growing pains, so to speak...and I'm just trying to figure out how best to handle them. I really don't think that eliminating (U) quota will help, because we'll just go back to the way things were before...fewer (U) women going through and an even smaller number getting bids to the better chapters. The institution of a (U) quota, gives (U) women an 'even playing field' but it affects total and COBing. So we just need to find a way to make things even and fair for everyone.

How is it unfair to you, the chapter that is popular with no problem getting all the girls you want under any system, that the chapter that has to COB to get to Total is able to take freshman or upperclassmen to get to total? Are you afraid that by taking upperclassmen you suddenly are going to become the undesirable chapter? Don't worry about it so much! They will take 5 more women to get to Total. It will not be the end of the world and will effect your chapter in no way at all.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Anchored4Ever

The problem is 2 fold:

1. Under the old system (before (U) quota was initiated 3 yrs ago, the vast majority of (U) women went to only 2 (out of 7 total) chapters. Those 2 chapters had trouble making quota yearly and were hardly ever at total. Their pledge classes were usually at least 1/2 juniors, and so every other year or so 1/2 of their chapter would graduate at the same time.

2. Under the old system, unless the (U) women going through were totally AMAZING, they didn't stand a shot at getting a good bid, and many wound up dropping out around day 2/3. Now, under the new system, many more (U) women stay in through the entire process and are more evently distributed throughout all chapters.

Because of the recently instituted (U) quota, chapters are getting larger, more women are 'going Greek,' and we're able to have more impact on our campus & community. But, there are just issues that come along with growing...growing pains, so to speak...and I'm just trying to figure out how best to handle them. I really don't think that eliminating (U) quota will help, because we'll just go back to the way things were before...fewer (U) women going through and an even smaller number getting bids to the better chapters. The institution of a (U) quota, gives (U) women an 'even playing field' but it affects total and COBing. So we just need to find a way to make things even and fair for everyone.

I asked what is wrong with the system you have in place now, not the old system. You have yet to explain what is uneven or unfair.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Anchored4Ever

Well, if you shouldn't be able to take underclassmen in place of upperclassmen for quota during formal recruitment, why should you be able to do so during COB?

Because they are under total.

Originally Posted by Anchored4Ever

Purposfully underinviting and then not making upperclassman quota is wrong. Why should a chapter who does this get to fill those spots with underclassmen once recruitment is over?

Because they are under total.

Originally Posted by Anchored4Ever

If we cannot pledge more underclassmen during formal recruitment, then why can they once it's over?

Because they are under total.