National Ritual Celebration Week

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Gusteau

So there's no confusion - this is a serious question, not a taunting one.

Do you really feel that the Christian origins of your Ritual are so pervasive that the other values of your organization do not transcend them? Furthermore, are you in opposition to them simply because they are Christian, or because you are in conflict with them message of them?

What I am saying is that many of the (NPC) orgs have open mottos/creeds/whatevers that reflect their core beliefs. For example, Phi Mu: love, honor, truth. Alpha Chi Omega: love, unselfishness, sincerity. Delta Delta Delta: truth, self-sacrifice, friendship. I think that these core values are very important, and our members should strive to live by them. They are, in my opinion, more important than some specific words in a book.

It's harder to answer the second part of your question. I am not against participating in a ritual based on Christian scripture, as I think that there is value in the historical significance of continuing a tradition set down by our founders. However, even many of the open mottos reference God in a way that I personally find to be exclusive.

So basically, what I'm trying to say, is that I think values are important, and I think historical continuity is important, but the religious aspect makes me uncomfortable, and I think that a week set aside to "reflect on ritual" risks elevating the latter.

[AOII Angel]

The problem with addressing any group other than your own is that you don't know if AChiO and Tri Delta have any specifically religious undertones in their rituals. They may include the ideals of their creeds very well in their rituals. Don't speak for them.

Having a Christian basis for ritual doesn't have to be a factor to exclude people. The level of biblical involvement may vary widely. I've actually read several rituals. They are quite beautiful, and so far, I haven't come across a single one that includes a significant amount of biblical content. They may have Christian values, but there are values that many non Christian people hold in common with Christians that you find in the Christian tradition.

If there is a ritual out there that demands you recognize Jesus as your savior or requires you to take communion, etc, then I would have a problem. And if you are wondering, I would count myself as extremely non-religious.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

The problem with addressing any group other than your own is that you don't know if AChiO and Tri Delta have any specifically religious undertones in their rituals. They may include the ideals of their creeds very well in their rituals. Don't speak for them.

Having a Christian basis for ritual doesn't have to be a factor to exclude people. The level of biblical involvement may vary widely. I've actually read several rituals. They are quite beautiful, and so far, I haven't come across a single one that includes a significant amount of biblical content. They may have Christian values, but there are values that many non Christian people hold in common with Christians that you find in the Christian tradition.

If there is a ritual out there that demands you recognize Jesus as your savior or requires you to take communion, etc, then I would have a problem. And if you are wondering, I would count myself as extremely non-religious.

I don't understand how you talk about having read several rituals, and then tell me that there is no way I could know what is in someone else's ritual.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I don't understand how you talk about having read several rituals, and then tell me that there is no way I could know what is in someone else's ritual.

Well, you never claimed to have read any so...

[Gusteau]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

What I am saying is that many of the (NPC) orgs have open mottos/creeds/whatevers that reflect their core beliefs. For example, Phi Mu: love, honor, truth. Alpha Chi Omega: love, unselfishness, sincerity. Delta Delta Delta: truth, self-sacrifice, friendship. I think that these core values are very important, and our members should strive to live by them. They are, in my opinion, more important than some specific words in a book.

It's harder to answer the second part of your question. I am not against participating in a ritual based on Christian scripture, as I think that there is value in the historical significance of continuing a tradition set down by our founders. However, even many of the open mottos reference God in a way that I personally find to be exclusive.

So basically, what I'm trying to say, is that I think values are important, and I think historical continuity is important, but the religious aspect makes me uncomfortable, and I think that a week set aside to "reflect on ritual" risks elevating the latter.

I get what your saying, I just don't think discomfort equals outdated.

Basically, one of the most important realizations for fraternity and sorority members is the acknowledgment that their organization is larger than themselves. Part of both the humility and pride of being part of such a vast and meaningful organization is sacrificing a little bit of yourself for the common good. If you can't make sacrifices for those you care about you (the general you) are just not fit for fraternity/sorority life. One member's occasional discomfort is not more important that the organization as a whole.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Gusteau

I get what your saying, I just don't think discomfort equals outdated.

Basically, one of the most important realizations for fraternity and sorority members is the acknowledgment that their organization is larger than themselves. Part of both the humility and pride of being part of such a vast and meaningful organization is sacrificing a little bit of yourself for the common good. If you can't make sacrifices for those you care about you (the general you) are just not fit for fraternity/sorority life. One member's occasional discomfort is not more important that the organization as a whole.

From a minority person's standpoint, that discomfort is just one more in a long list of discomforts that they're expected to 'deal with' throughout their everyday lives. Newspapers assume the 'standard' person is white and only identify someone by race if the person is non-white. Co-workers assume that everyone's Christian and say a very specifically Christian prayer before a holiday meal. It gets wearing on a person when it's always "them" who is expected to be humble for the whole.

I really don't disagree that ultimately it's worth it for some people, but I don't think it's an issue that can be swept away as humility vs. pride. And I think that her opinions on whether or not ritual is outdated is not because of discomfort but because of the same thing that causes the discomfort, if I'm reading her right. In her description they're both symptoms of the same problem, not one caused by the other.

Again, the inability to talk in specifics makes this a pretty pointless discussion and only enhances my opinion that any sort of concerted effort among GLOs to 'recognize ritual' is fruitless. We should support our ritual - or work from within to change it if we so desire - but we can't really talk about things otherwise.

[Gusteau]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

From a minority person's standpoint, that discomfort is just one more in a long list of discomforts that they're expected to 'deal with' throughout their everyday lives. Newspapers assume the 'standard' person is white and only identify someone by race if the person is non-white. Co-workers assume that everyone's Christian and say a very specifically Christian prayer before a holiday meal. It gets wearing on a person when it's always "them" who is expected to be humble for the whole.

I really don't disagree that ultimately it's worth it for some people, but I don't think it's an issue that can be swept away as humility vs. pride. And I think that her opinions on whether or not ritual is outdated is not because of discomfort but because of the same thing that causes the discomfort, if I'm reading her right. In her description they're both symptoms of the same problem, not one caused by the other.

Again, the inability to talk in specifics makes this a pretty pointless discussion and only enhances my opinion that any sort of concerted effort among GLOs to 'recognize ritual' is fruitless. We should support our ritual - or work from within to change it if we so desire - but we can't really talk about things otherwise.

Understanding the limitations of this topic, I would argue that most GLOs try to be accommodating to this discomfort by generally focusing more on the values based sentiment of Ritual in membership education, resources, publications, etc. As long as we emphasize the values inherent in our rituals we should be able to move on from things that are maybe less inclusive.

It's probably worth saying that I feel my Ritual is very inclusive (a valid argument could be made to call it secular, though I would call it interfaith) so I may not fully understand the breadth of these feelings.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Plenty of people have access to GLOs' rituals and don't read them or read them but you would never know because they don't discuss them, even vaguely. I can access rituals for other NPHC orgs but even reading them doesn't mean much beyond the words on the paper. Since there are nonChristian NPHCers, as well as Christian NPHCers who have denounced because they feel that Greekdom is the antiChrist, there is something to be said for what's embedded in "ritual" and beyond the words. I don't know about other GLOs but Delta is to be taken as a whole and not picked a part because someone has read some document (which isn't "secret" because secrets aren't put in print and distributed in paper form).

@ the bolded: I have seen some of those people and WOW are they um... "special."

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

sequinned leggings

WTF WHY ARE YOU RELEASING OUR SECRETS!!!!!!!111!!11!

Originally Posted by Gusteau

Understanding the limitations of this topic, I would argue that most GLOs try to be accommodating to this discomfort by generally focusing more on the values based sentiment of Ritual in membership education, resources, publications, etc. As long as we emphasize the values inherent in our rituals we should be able to move on from things that are maybe less inclusive.

It's probably worth saying that I feel my Ritual is very inclusive (a valid argument could be made to call it secular, though I would call it interfaith) so I may not fully understand the breadth of these feelings.

And it may be that your ritual is indeed fairly inclusive. Many, though not all, of our rituals were written by white protestant women (NPC) so it's not surprising that themes that white protestant women can relate to are prevalent throughout. Additionally, women from outside that specific experience were exposed to the primarily white, protestant culture of universities and would also have understood or used many of the same themes or references.

So... what does it mean? YMMV basically See, it's so fruitless!

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

@ the bolded: I have seen some of those people and WOW are they um... "special."

They don't bother me as long as they denounce/depledge and disappear. Don't waste time bad mouthing their GLO and Greekdom, in general. Don't contact he-who-shall-not-be-named so you can share your story and post rituals. Just go away. I know people who depledged and just went away. There is a God. Some of them not only lost Frat and/or Sorors but also lost friends. But, oh well.

The funny thing is that apparently even organizations that some consider "founded on Christian principles" aren't Christian enough for the Archangels that God sends to colleges and universities.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

They don't bother me as long as they denounce/depledge and disappear. Don't waste time bad mouthing their GLO and Greekdom, in general. Don't contact he-who-shall-not-be-named so you can share your story and post rituals. Just go away. I know people who depledged and just went away. There is a God. Some of them not only lost Frat and/or Sorors but also lost friends. But, oh well.

The funny thing is that apparently even organizations that some consider "founded on Christian principles" aren't Christian enough for the Archangels that God sends to colleges and universities.

I don't know why someone who objects to swearing oaths would join an organization that swears oaths (or makes promises or whatever) in the first place.

[AZTheta]

@MysticCat, you made me cry.

[DrPhil]

Thanks, MysticCat! Cue...

[AZTheta]

^^^*waves* missed you, DrPhil. Nice to see you on the board again.

[DrPhil]

At the same time, you're still celebrating beyond "a block of text or handshake...." You have been organizationally socialized such that you may not walk around everyday reciting the text; and you don't have to blatantly say "aha, that reminds me of this..." all of the time.

I gather that is what DeltaBetaBaby is talking about. That's one of the perils of speaking generally about topics that may or may not be conducive to that.

[ASTalumna06]

Just one more person's take on it... (from our friends at Phired Up..)

http://www.phiredup.com/index.php?op...=1236&Itemid=2

So this week isn’t just a week of living my ritual (every week is). This is a week when I give thanks to the founders of my organization for putting to paper a challenge that makes me a better person everyday. This is a week when I give thanks to my brothers for giving me this gift of fraternity. This is a week when I give thanks that I am one of a privileged few who have been so fortunate to have had the opportunity to go to college and join a fraternity. This is a week when I give thanks for my ritual.