Who guarantees placement?

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

IMO the gamma rhos should shut that shit down. My group did...but PNMs usually didn't have balls to do that right outside the chapter or in a party. I don't think I encountered one THAT ridiculous. The ones that were that rude were the ones that would do things like get their invitations back to find they'd been dropped by the one sorority they deemed good enough for them and then leave, never to be heard from again (I had a few do that). We did hear it occasionally walking in between parties or in the general meeting room.

I like guaranteed placement, especially on a campus like mine where it's hard to get PNMs to go through formal recruitment in the first place. And the majority of PNMs stay open minded and end up happy in their new home. But the ones that have tunnel vision can be such a challenge.

This is a good point.

I think that guaranteed placement should require:

1) The chapter has absolutely positively obeyed the release figures
2) The PNM attended all parties every round
3) The PNM is added to the smallest chapter at which she preffed

But the fact of the matter is, if these things happen, there really shouldn't be much need for guaranteed placement. We would run into problems with PNM's who were total biatches to all but the top five chapters. Then, only those five chapters would invite them back. So they followed the letter of the law to be a quota addition, but not the spirit, as they didn't give anyone else a real chance.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

This is a good point.

I think that guaranteed placement should require:

1) The chapter has absolutely positively obeyed the release figures
2) The PNM attended all parties every round
3) The PNM is added to the smallest chapter at which she preffed

But the fact of the matter is, if these things happen, there really shouldn't be much need for guaranteed placement. We would run into problems with PNM's who were total biatches to all but the top five chapters. Then, only those five chapters would invite them back. So they followed the letter of the law to be a quota addition, but not the spirit, as they didn't give anyone else a real chance.

At Montevallo there are only 5 sororities, so a situation like that is unlikely. If a PNM is a total bitch to 3 out of 5 chapters she runs the real risk of being badmouthed to those 2 she does want to pref, not to mention it seems that it's the girls most likely to do that that are the least likely to end up where they think they want to be. Whether that's because the chapter sees through them or because the girls aren't quite as charming as they think they are I can't say, but at a small school it's harder to play the game that way.

PNMs like that usually seem to think they're a shoe in for XY or AB, and that's IMO the #1 way to pretty much guarantee being dropped from XY or AB. (From an outsider's viewpoint...I'm not talking about my own chapter here).

[AXOrushadvisor]

lane swerve..

PNM's should have to sign a code of conduct IMHO. I worked with a struggling Chapter that has since closed that had PNM's being HORRIBLE to the Chapter because they didn't want to be there- to the point that it would make the actives cry. I thought it was disrespectful and rude. You would NEVER act that way in someone else's home and it shouldn't happen in recruitment. I would like to see women who behave badly be released from recruitment.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor

lane swerve..

PNM's should have to sign a code of conduct IMHO. I worked with a struggling Chapter that has since closed that had PNM's being HORRIBLE to the Chapter because they didn't want to be there- to the point that it would make the actives cry. I thought it was disrespectful and rude. You would NEVER act that way in someone else's home and it shouldn't happen in recruitment. I would like to see women who behave badly be released from recruitment.

I would like that, too. And as far as I'm concerned, PNMs who behaved that way towards another chapter weren't good enough to be members of my own chapter. (And vice versa when they were badmouthing my chapter to another sorority). I know lots of Panhellenic women on my campus who feel/felt the same way. Badmouth one of us, badmouth all of us.

I had to constantly remind girls that these chapters went to a lot of trouble to impress them and the least they could do is should up and be polite. It's one thing to know you don't want to join that particular chapter, but it's another to be rude to them because of it.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor

lane swerve..

PNM's should have to sign a code of conduct IMHO. I worked with a struggling Chapter that has since closed that had PNM's being HORRIBLE to the Chapter because they didn't want to be there- to the point that it would make the actives cry. I thought it was disrespectful and rude. You would NEVER act that way in someone else's home and it shouldn't happen in recruitment. I would like to see women who behave badly be released from recruitment.

I was going to add #4 to that list: The PNM is not a raging bitch.

The problem is it works and the sororities who DO like them sometimes overlook it and would throw a fit if they weren't allowed to pledge the woman who was Miss Sunshine at THEIR parties.

Plus it's a subjective thing. The rude PNMs could just as easily say "my land, they just misunderstood me...I was having gas...that's just my humor...yadda yadda yadda" and it devolves into a she-said/she-said.

So yeah, good idea, but unless the PNM does something like walking out of the party, I don't know how you could follow it through.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I was going to add #4 to that list: The PNM is not a raging bitch.

The problem is it works and the sororities who DO like them sometimes overlook it and would throw a fit if they weren't allowed to pledge the woman who was Miss Sunshine at THEIR parties.

Plus it's a subjective thing. The rude PNMs could just as easily say "my land, they just misunderstood me...I was having gas...that's just my humor...yadda yadda yadda" and it devolves into a she-said/she-said.

So yeah, good idea, but unless the PNM does something like walking out of the party, I don't know how you could follow it through.

It probably would only be enforceable in the PNM-walking-out-of-the-room situations (or saying something so bitchy there's no way to take it out of context) but it might at least keep those who make snide remarks from doing it during or in between parties if they're nervous about being dropped from recruitment.

[ThetaPrincess24]

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor

lane swerve..

PNM's should have to sign a code of conduct IMHO. I worked with a struggling Chapter that has since closed that had PNM's being HORRIBLE to the Chapter because they didn't want to be there- to the point that it would make the actives cry. I thought it was disrespectful and rude. You would NEVER act that way in someone else's home and it shouldn't happen in recruitment. I would like to see women who behave badly be released from recruitment.

I so agree with that sentiment!

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Idle threats FTW!

I do see how it could work at a small school. I guess in my experience, with 19 NPC chapters and at least three chapters* that consistently did COB after recruitment, there is no reason to guarantee bids. If Suzie PNM absolutely, positively can NOT find a home in one of the three smaller chapters, methinks she is not giving them a fair chance.

*When I was there, there were three not at total even if they took quota during FR, every year. However, most years there were others that came up a bit short and so, realistically, there were at least five chapters doing COB every year. One year, seven chapters did not make quota, while the other twelve got quota additions, so you can see why I am bitter on this topic.

[LadyLonghorn]

The University of Texas has had guaranteed placement for several years.

1. The PNM must attend all the parties on her schedule each day
2. The PNM must not be crosscut before Preference and attend at least one Preference party

But ............
Crosscuts are brutal at UT and many PNMs don't make it through to Preference. (I think part of the problem is many PNMs are able to drop the "weaker" houses after Open House set and still have a full schedule for the second set. Brutal cuts occur after that set, and when a PNM doesn't have any chapters remaining who have more forgiving return numbers because she dropped them after first round, her options are then greatly limited going forward.) Many others drop out before Preference because they don't like their invites.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by LadyLonghorn

I think part of the problem is many PNMs are able to drop the "weaker" houses after Open House set and still have a full schedule for the second set. Brutal cuts occur after that set, and when a PNM doesn't have any chapters remaining who have more forgiving return numbers because she dropped them after first round, her options are then greatly limited going forward.) Many others drop out before Preference because they don't like their invites.

I've seen a lot of that at big Southern schools because let's say that a school has 8 "big deal" groups, 4 medium ones, and 4 that a lot of PNMs won't consider.

After first parties, Patty PNM can go back to 8 and she picks the big 8. After second parties, they can go back to 4 but she's been cut by the Big 8--or most of them--but she has some re-invites by the No Way 4 that she cut earlier. A lot of these girls will drop if they have no Big 8s left.

The thing is that many of them would've considered the Medium 4 if they could still go back to them but they cut them the first day and the Mediums rarely re-invite anyone. This is why a lot of girls who are more heavily cut after first parties seem to like their recruitment results better...they kept their Medium 4 all the way through and are perfectly happy with their parties and bids.

Of course, this doesn't sound PC. However, that's what many Greek observers have noted since RFM came into effect.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by carnation

The thing is that many of them would've considered the Medium 4 if they could still go back to them but they cut them the first day and the Mediums rarely re-invite anyone.

Hence why we tell PNMs to keep an open mind.

All too often, PNMs focus on top groups, drop out after the Top cut them, and THEN realize that they would have been perfectly happy elsewhere. By then, it's too late (and you're looking at rushing as an upperclassman if you want to try again).

Also, PNMs don't get that at most schools, you will have a quality Greek experience at ANY chapter (like, you won't have any less fun at Medium because it's not Top).

[PhoenixAzul]

I really don't know how else we can reinforce to PNMs that the "best" sorority is YOUR sorority, the one you ended up in. Your sisters are always the "best" sisters.

Coming from a small chapter, I really don't know how to drill that into an 18 year old's brain.

[Gusteau]

Originally Posted by carnation

Of course, this doesn't sound PC. However, that's what many Greek observers have noted since RFM came into effect.

Lane swerve, but isn't RFM supposed to have most of the heavy cuts come early on, keeping chapters from leading PNMs on and giving them a more realistic look at the houses they could get a bid to? You may have said that, but I may have misunderstood (definitely not my territory).

In which case, does UT not use RFM?

Sorry for the confusion/lane swerve.

[carnation]

People talk like the killer cuts come after first parties. Seems like most of the killer cuts come after second parties, though, and by then the PNMs may have released a lot of groups they would've liked. When there are 18 groups and you get invitations back to, say, 15 for first parties and you have to cut down to 10 or 12, it's hard to choose.

[psy]

Does anyone know when Tufts changed from guaranteed placement (i.e., everyone gets a bid, even if they get cut from all three houses or fail to maximize their options) to guaranteed bidding (i.e., if you go through pref and maximize your options throughout recruitment, you are guaranteed a bid)?

Their 2008 viewbook (the latest currently posted on their website) says,
"Please understand that this is a mutual selection process. After each round, you will preference a certain number of chapters and each sorority will preference a certain number of women. Participation in Recruitment does not obligate you to join a sorority nor does it guarantee memberships"

Based on this, it seems Tufts now has guaranteed *bidding*, similar to that done by UT and some other universities, but I remember reading about the sorority system there having guaranteed *placement* when I was looking at colleges in 2005-2006.

I'm just curious as to when they made this switch.

Thanks!