ITT We Discuss Theology

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Heh. I have at least 75 prayer books/service books/liturgical books/hymnals of many stripes -- Presbyterian, Reformed, Episcopal/Anglican, Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, Orthodox, Baptist, Moravian, even Mormon. Bought another (Lutheran) today at a used bookstore. It is an addiction.

As for the new translation of the Mass, it is (apparently, and for the most part) closer to the Latin, but it is very clumsy English at times. And there has been quite a discussion going on over at Ship of Fools over whether "who for us men and our salvation" is the best English translation of "qui propter nos homines et nostram salutem."

Glad I'm not the only one. I plan on buying a ELW when I get a chance, and expand from my mostly Anglican collection. I might buy a copy of the Roman Missal, though not sure which. I'm trying to get a hold of the Book of Divine Worship but not sure where to go for that.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Glad I'm not the only one. I plan on buying a ELW when I get a chance, and expand from my mostly Anglican collection. I might buy a copy of the Roman Missal, though not sure which. I'm trying to get a hold of the Book of Divine Worship but not sure where to go for that.

I'll check tomorrow - but I'm pretty sure OLOW has them for $15. I'll let you know.

[SWTXBelle]

Vito - They moved the books! I'll write this week and find out if they have any left and if so I'll get you one. Once I have it in my possession we'll talk shipping, etc.

RE: Guilt. The nice thing about any Catholic guilt is there is reconciliation - so there should be no lingering guilt,unless you are unrepentant and unwilling to amend your life, in which case you must not think whatever you are doing is wrong, so why feel guilty? Guilt should lead you to think about whatever is making you feel that way - then you deal with it, one way or the other. As I see people with no qualms about some of the most self-centered behavior imaginable I can't help but wish they had some pangs of guilt.

[SWTXBelle]

Are you ready for the new Roman Catholic liturgy?

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Are you ready for the new Roman Catholic liturgy?

Oh I can't wait until they reprint the Book of Divine Worship and it is affordable. I'm assuming they will just use that since it does exists.

ETA: I think it is worth saying that liturgically I am very very Anglo-Catholic.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Are you ready for the new Roman Catholic liturgy?

It feels weird to say, but I'm not. It almost makes it a bit easier to give myself the distance I need from the Church itself.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Wait I'm confused. What new Liturgy?

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Wait I'm confused. What new Liturgy?

http://www.nwitimes.com/news/opinion...b0cea95b7.html

I agree that the translations, while possibly more accurate, are clumsy. Overall, it'll make Mass less nostalgic and familiar to me which helps.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Ugh that is horrible.

ETA: Knowing about that, do you think that Rome is going to rewrite the Anglican Rite or keep it the way it is?

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Ugh that is horrible.

ETA: Knowing about that, do you think that Rome is going to rewrite the Anglican Rite or keep it the way it is?

No idea. Here's the Revised Roman Missal site. I doubt they'll do much when they seem to be (trying) recruiting heavily from the Anglicans right now.

[Gusteau]

Oooh, Drole thanks for posting the NWI article. I knew about the change, but I hadn't seen any of the comparisons of old and new text. If you've been to a Latin Mass and understand Latin (admittedly my Latin is very very remedial) you can see how much of it is closer to the Latin text. Most noticable, I think, is the change of "And also with you" to "And with your spirit" - that was a pretty obvious departure from the Latin text.

You know, it will be a little annoying at first, but I can definitely agree that it will renew my participation at Mass. A lot of times I feel like I'm just going through the motions, so hopefully this challenges me to become a more active participant. I can tell already that the Nicene Creed is going to throw me for a loop though!

[Drolefille]

^^ yw
It's interesting how the two of us have different perspectives on it. For me it's a good thing that it provides some distance. If Mass doesn't hold that nostalgia for me anymore, then I won't feel a pull to return just out of habit. It's interesting, since I don't know the Latin at all, how it changes your perspective on it.

[Gusteau]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

^^ yw
It's interesting how the two of us have different perspectives on it. For me it's a good thing that it provides some distance. If Mass doesn't hold that nostalgia for me anymore, then I won't feel a pull to return just out of habit. It's interesting, since I don't know the Latin at all, how it changes your perspective on it.

I think it's two things - first, I identify more with structure and ritual than words, I'm a hands on learner so I think the movement is more resonant with me. I'll wait until it changes to give you the final verdict though. Second, I'm at a place where I'm trying to renew my faith life, so a change when I'm changing just seems to fit.

Re: Guilt
I tend to agree with SWTXBelle, as I don't necessarily see guilt as a bad thing. It is definitely missing from certain aspects of our society. I think Catholicism has become somewhat of a counterculture, so I can appreciate its emphasis on guilt.

Vito, do you have a link to where you read the full text?

[Psi U MC Vito]

I read the new proper of the mass and I did not like it at all. For one thing it piles on even more guilt onto the people. And thanks SWTX!

[SWTXBelle]

Ha! My column last week was on guilt - I'm for it! As I look around the world today, it seems to me that there are plenty of people for whom the concept of guilt is entirely foreign. I'll spare y'all the whole column - but I think guilt can be a very good thing.