ITT We Discuss Theology

[SWTXBelle]

This was my facebook status a few days ago:

"God is always much better than the most loving person you can imagine, Jesus is saying. It is not that we pray and God answers. It is that our praying is already God answering within us and through us." — from Wondrous Encounters

So, in answer to your question DF - I don't think prayer triggers some "Jackpot!" with God. I think prayer opens us up to what God is already doing.

And I do think you can pray for everyone - I know my parish does, along with those we know. Heck, we even make a point of "praying for those who have no one to pray for them". Covering all the bases, I guess!

It also depends on the type of prayer - meditative, gratitude, intercession . . .

[Psi U MC Vito]

Yes I agree with what SWTX has to say. By praying for others, it is a very real way to express our love for them, even if not something that is always visible or always produces a tangible result.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Bumping this for a question that frequently bothers me:

Prayer - the type where you pray FOR someone/something. Does it work? If so do people who have people to pray for them deserve better outcomes? If not then why do it?

I always got caught in a recursive "can't just pray for one person why not everyone in the whole world well what's the point then" thought process.

/overthinks things, I know

I've never been comfortable with prayer that asks for something specific. My prayers tend to be for assistance in accepting God's will or simply putting a problem in His hands. For example, I was struggling with finding funds for my kids' Christmas presents and I was really stressing over it. One night, I thought to myself "I am just putting this in God's hands". The next day, we got a surprise bonus at work and my dad sent me my own Christmas gift, an A_mazon gift certificate. Between the two, I was able to get each of my kids the gift they really wanted. It's like my own personal worry jar. When I let go and stop worrying, things work out as they should. Would I have received those two things if I hadn't put it in God's hands? Yes. But I would have kept worrying until the next day.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

This was my facebook status a few days ago:

"God is always much better than the most loving person you can imagine, Jesus is saying. It is not that we pray and God answers. It is that our praying is already God answering within us and through us." — from Wondrous Encounters

So, in answer to your question DF - I don't think prayer triggers some "Jackpot!" with God. I think prayer opens us up to what God is already doing.

And I do think you can pray for everyone - I know my parish does, along with those we know. Heck, we even make a point of "praying for those who have no one to pray for them". Covering all the bases, I guess!

It also depends on the type of prayer - meditative, gratitude, intercession . . .

Yeah I specified "asking" rather than intercession but that's really what I'm looking at here. But if intercessory prayer doesn't really have an effect then again, why bother? And if it does, how DO we conscience only praying for specific people at any given time?

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Yes I agree with what SWTX has to say. By praying for others, it is a very real way to express our love for them, even if not something that is always visible or always produces a tangible result.

If I see it as "I took some thought for you today" I see the point, but if the only benefit is the person appreciating the thought then why prayer? Isn't it just a self fulfilling prophecy then?

Originally Posted by AGDee

I've never been comfortable with prayer that asks for something specific. My prayers tend to be for assistance in accepting God's will or simply putting a problem in His hands. For example, I was struggling with finding funds for my kids' Christmas presents and I was really stressing over it. One night, I thought to myself "I am just putting this in God's hands". The next day, we got a surprise bonus at work and my dad sent me my own Christmas gift, an A_mazon gift certificate. Between the two, I was able to get each of my kids the gift they really wanted. It's like my own personal worry jar. When I let go and stop worrying, things work out as they should. Would I have received those two things if I hadn't put it in God's hands? Yes. But I would have kept worrying until the next day.

This part of prayer doesn't confuse me so much, although I see it more as self-talk ultimately at this moment. It's more the intercession, the 'please help _____' that I'm struggling with.

[SWTXBelle]

My own take - praying for others is as much for YOU as for the others. It is a way of directing your energy towards others, and focusing less on yourself. It's a way of opening up to what God's will is - of course the ultimate prayer is to be accepting of that. But from a Christian perspective, we are told specifically when 2 or 3 are gathered in His name - and I think the point is that we are to be a community. That community in and of itself is able to act - and thus prayers are fulfilled. The support of the community is a good - and it expresses itself through prayer.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

My own take - praying for others is as much for YOU as for the others. It is a way of directing your energy towards others, and focusing less on yourself. It's a way of opening up to what God's will is - of course the ultimate prayer is to be accepting of that. But from a Christian perspective, we are told specifically when 2 or 3 are gathered in His name - and I think the point is that we are to be a community. That community in and of itself is able to act - and thus prayers are fulfilled. The support of the community is a good - and it expresses itself through prayer.

*nod* I acknowledge that prayer can be beneficial to the pray-er, I just.. obviously not every community prayer is fulfilled, even if they do everything they can for themselves so it seems like why bother to make those community connections through prayer and not through some other format.

[SWTXBelle]

That's where the whole "God's will" thing comes in - and of course you don't stop at prayer. (Faith without works is, after all, dead.)
I think it may relate to intentionality - just voicing your concerns and asking for the strength to bear your burdens and the ability to overcome helps. In that way it's a sort of positive affirmation.
Too often prayer becomes a case of telling God how He should do things, instead of trying to discern His will.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

That's where the whole "God's will" thing comes in - and of course you don't stop at prayer. (Faith without works is, after all, dead.)
I think it may relate to intentionality - just voicing your concerns and asking for the strength to bear your burdens and the ability to overcome helps. In that way it's a sort of positive affirmation.
Too often prayer becomes a case of telling God how He should do things, instead of trying to discern His will.

This is what I was going for in my post. I didn't say it nearly as eloquently though.

[Drolefille]

And I do understand the 'point' of prayer in that sense, just not in the intercessionary sense, I think.

[CutiePie2000]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

I figured since we had quite a few discussion on theology on GC recently, why not start this. This way we won't need to derail another thread or bump the thread that won't die.

I wish I understood what these terms meant: Episcopalian , Evangelical, Methodist, Baptist, etc. (Time to break out the Wikipedia, I guess). Whenever I see the name of the church on the church signage, I don't really know what these words actually mean. I do, however, (feel that I) know what Catholic and Anglican mean.

PS In writing this "stream of consciousness", I came upon this helpful diagram (you will need to scroll down a ways...)
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_d...nity_are_there

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by CutiePie2000

I wish I understood what these terms meant: Episcopalian , Evangelical, Methodist, Baptist, etc. (Time to break out the Wikipedia, I guess). Whenever I see the name of the church on the church signage, I don't really know what these words actually mean. I do, however, (feel that I) know what Catholic and Anglican mean.

PS In writing this "stream of consciousness", I came upon this helpful diagram (you will need to scroll down a ways...)
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_d...nity_are_there

Those terms are really just the names of different traditions. All Episcopalian means is that the church has a Episcopal polity, which means it is run by Bishops. And Episcopalian as in The Episcopalian Church is just the name for the American Anglican Church. Baptists put a strong emphasize on the believer's baptism which means you need to be an adult who chooses to be baptized. Can't help terribly much with the other 2 I'm afraid.

[SWTXBelle]

Actually, Anglican is now used to refer to the churches which split from ECUSA (Episcopal Church - USA) after the 79 Prayer Book came about, along with the institution of homosexual and women priests. To further confuse things, there are now Anglican Usage Roman Catholic churches (I attend one), which use an Anglican liturgy but are Roman Catholic. Many churches with bishops (Methodists comes to mind) would NEVER call themselves Episcopalian, because it is now identified with ECUSA.
There are over 300 flavors of Baptists. That blows my mind.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Actually, Anglican is now used to refer to the churches which split from ECUSA (Episcopal Church - USA) after the 79 Prayer Book came about, along with the institution of homosexual and women priests. To further confuse things, there are now Anglican Usage Roman Catholic churches (I attend one), which use an Anglican liturgy but are Roman Catholic. Many churches with bishops (Methodists comes to mind) would NEVER call themselves Episcopalian, because it is now identified with ECUSA.
There are over 300 flavors of Baptists. That blows my mind.

Maybe it would be better to say that The Episcopal Church is the American member of the Anglican Communion. And most Anglican Use churches are former Episcopal parishes IIRC. And one thing I found out recently actually was that the Methodist Church was originally the Methodist Episcopal Church and the African Methodist Episcopal Church still exists.

[SWTXBelle]

Which Anglican Use Roman Catholic parish was Episcopalian? While there are many former Episcopalians in the pews, I was not aware of a former ECUSA church that went Roman Catholic. That may change with the new Anglican Ordinate, but that remains to be seen. I know of several former ECUSA parishes that are now in different Anglican churches (ACC, POCTK, DOHC, etc. . . ) but hadn't heard about an Episcopal parish joining the RCs.

[Psi U MC Vito]

I could be wrong, but that is what I was told. It's also possible I misunderstood and parishes split with some petitioning the RC church for membership? I'll be honest and say I don't know for sure.