Alfred University to Dissolve Greek System

[dzsaigirl]

When you are alum in DZ, everyone who initiated into that specific chapter at that school is considered to be in what's called a Chapter Association. So they could still do stuff as a chapter association, but I don't believe they could initiate other people unless it was as an alumnae initiation, and they would have to get permission to do that... Please correct me if I am wrong here...

[lenoxxx]

What is your email account? and name for that matter for your CC'ing on emails?

Secondly- to answer your questions- PLEASE DONT LLISTEN TO ALL THE HOOPLA ON HERE! GO and retain an attorney that has some specialty in fraternal issues, or for that matter state and federal issues with regards to housing and discrimination. I would do this at the earliest possible time. You should also get your alumni organization involved ASAP with any legal dealing you have.

Also- maintain a united front with the other greeks in this situation. Get other alumni groups talking- and see what kind of gratis legal help is available.

And Ill pose this simple question to everyone- If some Greek groups are bad, and the solution is to ban them completely and outright- would the same logic apply that since terrorists recently seem to be predominantly arab/muslim should Universities ban them outright and completely as well?

Obviously, the answer is NO. We as a people (i.e Americans , and Canadians etc.) do not treat people like that - A.K.A. we dont punish an entire group for the actions of a few.

The way Alfred University is treating all of you, Id say they would have to answer "YES" based on their current logic.

Some food for thought, and I hope I didnt rock the boat too much with that one!

Fraternally

Lenoxxx

[dzsaigirl]

Just to add...I think it is a big mistake for a school to cease to recognize greek life because then they have no control over it. At least if they have a hand in it, they can hold them to some standards!

[33girl]

Originally posted by KPU1190
We own our house, which is off campus, and have owned it since 1927. Is it legally possible for the university to prohibit us from living in the house that we own a part of as it seems they are going to try and do?

1. What are the rules about moving off campus right now?

2. How is the housing situation on campus? (i.e. can everyone have a room that wants one, or is it overcrowded)

Let us know, then we can go from there...

[KPU1215]

i am a brother at a local fraternity, Kappa Psi Upsilon, of Alfred university and am calling out to all Greeks that have a word of support. we dont want to die and we will fight as long as we can, but we need help. my fraternity has been an active part of this university for 80 years and now they are telling us that we are no longer a contributing member of the community? it is bs but we need help in fighting this injustice to our greek system, if our school thinks they can do away with us soo easily what is stopping your respective schools from doing the same? we are open to any and all suggestions. the university has been working against us ever since i came here, and i'm a junior, we have been dealt with injustly, from a greek advisor who works against us to our school as a whole who will only release press statements that are going against us. i was a friend of the ZBT brother who tragically died but don't punish the houses who have worked hard to gain popularity amongst the faculty and staff, who felt it was alright to turn thier backs on us. we are all good people who are doing the best to make the most out of our college experiance, don't hinder our personal growth. Ben didn't die because of a hazing incident, he died because he was too mentally unstable to deal with the events leading up to his disappearance. i am not trying to bash this individual who died way ahead of his time but sadly it is the truth. i knew this kid since i was a feshman and he always had problems. i know i am now rabling but i don't know what else to do right now. please if you are willing to help us tell the rest of your fraternal brothers and any other Greek you know to send an e-mail in support of us greeks to edmondson@alfred.edu and tell them what you think. as one Fraternity Brother to another i ask your help in this matter
thank you ,
Jerry Krajna
KPU'1215'

As long as the house is owned by the chapter or their headquarters, it not possible for Alfred to kick the students out, because they (the school) have no ties to it. IF they do own the property then they can do whatever they want.
I don't believe that Alfred can ban you from wearing Greek letters either. That would be a violation of the first amendment it would seem.
Here's what seems to be the deal to me. For now Alfred has put a stop to the Greek System. To me this implies that they do not have a "Recognized" system anymore. So under student life and orgs., they wont be listed. This doesnt necessarily mean that Greek orgs cant exist off campus, as long as they arent on school property. If you're a local than you can keep it up pretty easily and you wouldnt have to be considered "illegal". If your org is national you could face a problem, because it would seem that since the school doesnt "recognize" the system anymore, it would seem that most nationals would consider their chapters there as inactive and you would probaly either have to go alum or go local and add or drop a letter to your name. I could be wrong about all of this however.
If Alfred U Greeks truely feel like you're in the wrong then fight it all the way
Just a thought though...In case things dont work out (I forget how far Alfred U is away from Alfred State havent been up there in awhile), but what about affiliating with the Greek orgs. at Alfred State, if they have the same orgs.? Would that be a possibility? Or even another close school? It might not be what people want, but its something.

I know that Havard doesnt have a recognized Greek system, but they have greek orgs. Does anyone know if they are locals or if they have some national letters and are they officially listed by the nationals?

[KPU1190]

First off, I would like to say thank you for all of your support. Secondly, my email address is delucaja@alfred.edu.

As for some of the questions that were posed in other posts, I will attempt to answer them to the best of my knowledge.

As of this second, the rules for moving off-campus are simply that the student must be an Upper Classman, and must have lived on-campus for his/her first 2 years. The school does not guarentee on-campus housing after that.

Also, as for the on-campus housing situation, there is no possible way they can move every off-campus greek back onto campus, there simply is not enough room.

Again, I would like to thank everyone for their input and their support.

If anyone can help us out by recommending pro-bono greek lawyers (you know how broke college students are), that too would be great.

Thank you again!

Fraternally yours,
Joseph A. DeLuca III
Kappa Psi Upsilon
'1190'

We will not go softly into the night.

[33girl]

Originally posted by KPU1190
As of this second, the rules for moving off-campus are simply that the student must be an Upper Classman, and must have lived on-campus for his/her first 2 years. The school does not guarentee on-campus housing after that.

Also, as for the on-campus housing situation, there is no possible way they can move every off-campus greek back onto campus, there simply is not enough room.

Then I don't think you have to worry about them making you live on campus...unless they kick the freshmen off. Yes, I'm sure that would go over REAL well with parents. You should be able to keep living in your house.

All of the groups on campus need to get together...between all of you, I'm sure you can find a few alum lawyers who want to make the school eat lead (at no cost to you).

Hang in there.

[shadokat]

If you have your own house that the University doesn't own, be it rented or owned by the fraternity, you can live there. As for that upperclassmen only can live off campus rule, you can have anyone you want live in that house, and they can just be "commuter" students!

[hoosier]

Found this on the DKE website. I assume that some GLOs will go to the courts on this one.

"Because of congressional action last fall, Middlebury, Colby and Dartmouth may all be in legal trouble if they insist on trying to enforce their discriminatory ban on traditional Greek organizations. On Oct. 7, President Clinton signed into law the Higher Education Amendments of 1998, which included a new provision expressing the "sense of Congress" that no college that receives federal funds
should sanction (suspend, expel, etc.) any student merely for exercising the normal First Amendment right to join a private organization.

Presidents of the colleges note, correctly, that the congressional language includes no enforcement mechanism. But David Easlick, national executive director for the Delta Kappa Epsilon fraternity, makes some telling rejoinders. He notes that in earlier cases where n o direct enforcement mechanism is specified, federal courts have ruled that individuals have a right to private relief in the courts against those, like the colleges, who ignore the congressional directives. "Congressional silence does not prelude a court from implying a private right of action," wrote a Third Circuit Court in Hindes vs. F.D.I.C. in 1998. In a similar case 13 years earlier involving a group called the Student Coalition for Peace, the court had written that it "would be extremely reluctant to conclude that Congress intended to create mandatory duties but no means of enforcing them."

[madmax]

Originally posted by UMgirl


I know that Havard doesnt have a recognized Greek system, but they have greek orgs. Does anyone know if they are locals or if they have some national letters and are they officially listed by the nationals? [/B]

Harvard has some national fraternities and Princeton has unrecognized fraternities also.

[madmax]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Nobody can take away your Constitutional rights. But there's no Constitutional question here that I can see. The Constitution doesn't guarantee you the right to belong to a fraternity or sorority. And it doesn't guarantee that you can live in any given place. (If you're being told you can't live somewhere due to race, that's another matter -- one of Civil Rights.)

And FuzzieAlum is right. If you're under 21 your rights are at least not the same as they are later in life. Not that you have no rights, but they are dramatically modified.

Finally, remember that the university has rights, too -- no matter how agregious they may seem to us. Private colleges are, in the long run, simply businesses -- and unless they break the law, they can do pretty much whatever they want to within the context of that business. And, what they're doing here is simply cutting their liability.

There are Constitutional questions here.

1. Freedom of Association.

If the school cant stop you from joining the KKK they sure as hell are not going to be able to stop you from joining and off campus fraternity that is operating on private property and isn't breaking any laws.


2. Freedom of Speech.

You can't yell fire in a crowded movie theater but as far as I know it's not illegal to mail rush invitations , hang rush posters on private property, advertise in a local paper or wear letters.

Alfred doesnt have to recognize the greek orgs but they are not going to be able to prevent groups from operating off campus. The groups at Alfred will do fine if they are smart, organized and willing to put in a little work.

[madmax]

Originally posted by dzrose93




So, why not just form an alumnae chapter at that point? You still hang out with your sisters, get to do DZ activities, and share the sisterhood of Delta Zeta -- you just don't have a collegiate charter anymore. Some folks in this thread are acting like starting an alumnae chapter is a bad thing, and it's not. I personally would much prefer being an official DZ alumna instead of going underground as a local chapter and not being able to enjoy the Delta Zeta experience that I worked so hard to earn.

Because in 2 years the chapter will be gone. What are the alumni going to do on Homecoming? Hang out at their old dorm rooms? If the group continues to operate as a local chapter then they can maintain a house, take pledges and also have an alumni chapter.

[DeltAlum]

Ummmm, well, Max,

The way I read the articles and releases, the university isn't trying to do any of the things you address.

They're simply saying that the Greek System is no longer recognized by the university. In one article I read in Fraternal News (I think it was a NY Times article), it would appear that they're even considering how to deal with a situation where students would continue to live in their houses. They seem to be saying that if a student has spent his/her two required years in university housing, they can live anywhere they want with whomever they want.

Where did you hear that they will ban the wearing of letters? I didn't see that anywhere.

I haven't read anything about the administration trying to limit "association." First of all, that's not even possible. Again, they're just not going to officially recognize any Greek Letter Organization. They can certainly not allow GLO's to use university facilities. That's private property. And, I think they can probably stop the posting of rush posters on university property for the same reason. Granted, that would be hard to enforce, short of simply taking down anything that is posted as soon as it is put up. Of course there is nothing anyone can do about mailing rush literature -- and nowhere do I see any mention of trying that.

Here's my point. None of us like what is going on here, but short of the GLO's continuing to exist "off campus," there's not much we can do about the university's policy.

What will be interesting is to see whether the national organizations will continue to sanction a chapter that is not recognized by the university.

Rhetoric about Constitutional Rights doesn't really add to any solution here. The involved students can either live with the spirit of the new rules, continue to function as a non recognized outside organization, petition to somehow get the Board of Trustees to reverse its decision or go elsewhere to school.

I suspect that winning any kind of potential lawsuit would be pretty tough, because it would appear that the Trustees are well within their rights to run their business (the University) as they see fit. I highly doubt that they would have taken these steps without being on pretty firm legal ground.

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by madmax



Because in 2 years the chapter will be gone. What are the alumni going to do on Homecoming? Hang out at their old dorm rooms? If the group continues to operate as a local chapter then they can maintain a house, take pledges and also have an alumni chapter.

In 2 years, the alumnae chapter would NOT be gone. An alumnae chapter stays open as long as there are DZ's in the area who want to participate in DZ-related activities. And girls from Alfred University are NOT the only DZ's in the area. I can call National HQ right now and request a list of DZ alumnae living within a 50 mile radius of Alfred University -- and I guarantee you there will be a lot more than just Alfred U. DZ's that show up on the printout that I receive back from HQ.

Like I mentioned in another post, there are many wonderful DZ alumnae chapters that are very strong and have great sisters as members -- and there isn't a collegiate chapter of DZ anywhere near them. In fact, we've got states with thriving, award-winning alumnae chapters that don't have a single DZ collegiate chapter in the whole state!

The way I look at it, if you pledge Delta Zeta and really believe in the organization and love what it stands for, then you're not going to leave the sorority and form another group just because your university has decided to no longer recognize Greeks. Instead, you're going to find an alternative way to celebrate your DZ sisterhood -- and that doesn't mean jumping ship and forming a local when the going gets tough. The girls at Alfred U. can form an alumnae chapter or, like dzsaigirl mentioned, a chapter association and still function very well. Also, like dzsaigirl said, they can initiate women who they feel would make dedicated sisters as alumnae initiates into the sorority with National's permission.